My son's new VC Encore runs like a bear but it is burning a ton of wood and tooo hot for the room. The EPA controls try to maintain secondary burn temps. My old, old smoke dragon could idle down to just warm to the touch and smolder for 12+ hours. Has anyone added an air inlet control to the fresh air inlet hole seriously restricting the air? I'm thinking a short length of 3" stove pipe with an adjustable gate restrictor on the out end and elbow up to the stove air inlet
adding an air inlet control to epa stove ?
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lecomte38 said:
Number 1, doing that will create more emissions. Now, you may not be the tree-hugger type and figure that you don't give a flying hoot about emissions, but what this really means is that more emissions = more creosote in your chimney = increased risk of a fire that will destory your home, kill your family, and make your fire company get out of bed in the middle of the night.
Sell this stove and buy the smaller, right sized one for the room and he will be much safer and happier.
pen
Smaller fires are the key. As well, expecting the EPA stove to run idle like a smoke dragon is not going to happen, they aren't designed that way.
A few folks have added key dampers to help with strong drafts and avoid overfire conditions - not sure if this is what you are describing. In the end, the output of a given stove is based on how many pounds of wood go in, and how dry it is. Less wood = less heat. Smaller splits will give clean hot, short fires.
A few folks have added key dampers to help with strong drafts and avoid overfire conditions - not sure if this is what you are describing. In the end, the output of a given stove is based on how many pounds of wood go in, and how dry it is. Less wood = less heat. Smaller splits will give clean hot, short fires.
I will disagree a little bit with Brent. These EPA stoves will run hot nomatter what you do. The bigger the stove the more heat it will make. You can't tun them down low enough to idle "warm to the touch". A smaller stove will mean you have to load it more frequently but will result in less heat into the room. Usually the point of letting a stove idle for 12 hours is so that you get 12 hours of low level heating, ah yes, the ultimate situation of long and low which won't happen with an EPA non-cat stove. These days you'll need a cat to do that.
Yes you can add a restriction to the intake of the stove. This would be superior to simply modifying the stove's air control since that air control only controls the primary air and the secondary system would still be blowing full blast. Rather than restrict the intake, the more traditional method is to restrict the chimney with a flue damper. Same result of less air passing through the firebox to feed the fire.
The final issue is that this is a VC stove and the newer VC stoves have earned a reputation of being.... crap.
Yes you can add a restriction to the intake of the stove. This would be superior to simply modifying the stove's air control since that air control only controls the primary air and the secondary system would still be blowing full blast. Rather than restrict the intake, the more traditional method is to restrict the chimney with a flue damper. Same result of less air passing through the firebox to feed the fire.
The final issue is that this is a VC stove and the newer VC stoves have earned a reputation of being.... crap.
simple terms;
adding a draft control to an epa stove means it aint an epa stove any more, if the unit you selected is running you out of the rom, you selected too much stove for the area you wish to heat, either find a window and crack it open or find a stove which was rated closer to the area you wish to heat
adding a draft control to an epa stove means it aint an epa stove any more, if the unit you selected is running you out of the rom, you selected too much stove for the area you wish to heat, either find a window and crack it open or find a stove which was rated closer to the area you wish to heat
If you load an EPA stove it will put out the heat but if you start a cold stove by putting in 1 small load the stove fire will die back before you get serious heat, I do it all the time. Most make small loads in the shoulder season but some put in a damper. I also think it is due to people expecting the same operating conditions and are not willing to learn how to properly operate an EPA. My T6 could drive me out of the house in the shoulder season but I need that heat for the real winter. I had to learn instead of smoldering fire all day in a Fisher to building a small fire and not reloading it unless I really need extra heat and then I might only put 1 log on a small bed of coals. After a person learns the operating quirks of their stove it becomes easy. You will never have the long slow smoldering low heat fire with the new stoves but I bet if you learn how to properly operate your stove you will come to love it. Of course if this stove is just for casual burning than maybe downsizing would be good.
Of course you are going through the wood thats why its to hot.
Of course you are going through the wood thats why its to hot.
Silly,silly, alterations are only gonna equal creosote, and more creosote. And didn`t we all purchase the newer technology to get away from that??
Is he feeding the fire often? I think folks, yea even me, tend to want to feed the stove. If it is not blazing cold out yet and that stove is getting the place too hot, he should try a full load fire and let it burn all the way down - like an overnight fire - all the time. You do get a blast of heat getting it to temp but it just slowly wanes down from there. I do that in October and November depending on the temps. On a Saturday Ill get up an get her ripping, fill up the box, char up the wood and begin to close it down. Wont go back til 8-12 hours later when I know there will still be some coals and a 200 degree stove.
And burning smaller fires is an option too.
And burning smaller fires is an option too.
lecomte38 said:
Use less wood in the stove. The stove will still run hot, but have a shorter heat output. How is it heating the house? You said it is to hot for the room. How is the air circulation. Try putting a fan that will move lots of air in the doorway pointing in. This moves cool air into the room and the hot air will leave the room above the fan. It is easier to move cool air.
As others have said, with the secondary burn, the wood can not really smolder like your old stove. If he had a cat stove, they love the smoke when you slow the air intake and smolder the wood and this causes the cat to burn hotter.
sonnyinbc said:
Not entirely sure I agree with that.
On certain occasions, my VC runs away aka the 'thermonuclear' condition, where with a hot fire and the primary air set to lowest, the flu gas temps rise to dangerous levels since the secondary air cannot be controlled as shipped. By simply putting a wad of tin foil into the secondary air inlet, that cuts down the secondary combustion to keep the stove at a safe level. Even when 'non-EPA'd like this, the flu gas temps are well over 1000 degrees, the emissions are clean (non-existent), and the rumble of secondary combustion is evident. I'd submit that there is little creosote buildup w/ flu gas temps that hot and no visible emissions. It may not be officially following EPA specifications to restrict secondary air, but what I do I still consider 'in the spirit'. I dont have to do it very often (few times a month). In most cases, cutting off primary air level keeps the stove running normally (stove top temps around 550, flu gas around 1100-1200).
I'd be interested to here the experiences from someone that has added an inline flue damper to a non cat EPA stove ...like was on all the stoves we grew up with.
I agree with the smaller fire for lecomte38....yeah that'll do it.
I agree with the smaller fire for lecomte38....yeah that'll do it.
Smaller fire is fine for when someone is home to reload every 4 hours. How do you leave the house for 10 hours workwhen it is real cold? A 6 or 7 hour burn seems to be the max with a serious spike in room temp a couple of hours into the burn. That applies to the suggestion to get a smaller stove = less burn time. The stove heats his 1500 foot ranch well with a fan blowing cold air down the hall from the bedrooms to the living/stove area. As a bonus the stove is on a 14' marble hearth/fireplace/wall that will hold the heat for long periods.
lecomte38 said:
I haven't heard many folks claim 10 hour burns on here. I use my insert as a primary source, but that means when it runs out, I have to use my secondary - electric hotwater rads.
If you want to use wood to heat the house when you aren't there, you have a tough job ahead unless you overheat the place, or damp the stove down so low that it won't burn cleanly.
Not to mention the idea that I don't like the risk of leaving my house with a freshly loaded stove just starting it's burn cycle. If it runs away, ain't no one to call for help until these nothing but a basement to save. Wood reduces my heating bill, but won't eliminate it.
6-7 hrs of real heat that is ok for this stove with 2.1cf box. I am sure that every set up is different & the wood we burn is never the same, but after 6-7 hrs. my stove tends to cool (400* griddle top).
Those long slow smoldering burns are why we now have EPA stoves that don't fill the air with emmissions and [less] ash.
The alternative (and have air we can breathe when the wind stops inthe Winter) is no wood stoves. (or population density controls).
Holley dual feed double pumpers were fun way back when, too.
The alternative (and have air we can breathe when the wind stops inthe Winter) is no wood stoves. (or population density controls).
Holley dual feed double pumpers were fun way back when, too.
lecomte38 said:
I too have to go to work and the simple truth is that I can't expect to come home to a 70 degree house, and shouldn't expect it.
Wood is not a consistent heat. I too have a stove that is too large for my area, and when I am home keeping it running constantly like over the weekend, it is not surprising to have to open a window for a bit. But, I like the larger stove because most of the time I am re-starting from scratch when I get home from work, so it heats the home up quickly.
As another person mentioned, asking for a low, slow, heat is just asking for too much. Smoldering = creosote. A big stove will give you longer burns due to more fuel and will maintain appropriate chimney temps but as you are finding, it will overheat you.
pen
Diabel said:
I completely agree with these burn parameters on my Encore NC.
If I wanted more BTUs or a longer burn time, I would have bought (another) Defiant.
An A grade for this fine product overall. Way to go Vermont Castings!
There can be variations with the install that can make the same stove operate differently. I bought the same RSF Onyx stove for my last two houses. In my former home I had a taller central SS chimney that had too much draft for how the draft control was notched out. The dealer offered a replacement butterfly with one that had a smaller notch but it was too big a job to pull the stove out to change. The draft control regulates the secondary as well as the air wash.
What I ended up doing was to reduce the size of the primary injector supply which reduced the propensity for it to run away but the downside was that the coals built up too much. On my current stove, I enlarged the primary injector intake to help burn down the coals but it defeats my slow overnight burn and I have a fast hot burn and few coals in the morning. I am seriously considering adding an adjustment to the primary injector.
What I ended up doing was to reduce the size of the primary injector supply which reduced the propensity for it to run away but the downside was that the coals built up too much. On my current stove, I enlarged the primary injector intake to help burn down the coals but it defeats my slow overnight burn and I have a fast hot burn and few coals in the morning. I am seriously considering adding an adjustment to the primary injector.
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