Advice for Running Power Into Firebox

[PabloK]

I'm looking for some advice on how and where to install a high-temperature wire into the fireplace box. We don't want a wire running outside of the box.This is for a flush mount wood insert.

I think the best option is from the outlet on the backside of the fireplace, shown in picture 3. With that option, I'm not sure how to get the wire into the junction box - more of an electrical question. Do I remove the existing Jbox and install an old work junction box?

Another option I thought of was putting a new outlet/junction box in the side of the closet in picture 4, which is on the right side of the fireplace - so drill through the side of the fireplace, run a wire from the outlet in the back wall (pic 3) over to the closet to bring power, then put in a new jbox. It seems like an extra step to do it this way, but I wouldn't have to remove the box on the back wall - just run wire out of it over to the closet. There is probably a 6" gap between the back wall and the fireplace so there is plenty of space to run a wire.

Questions:
What do you think is the best option?
Should I install a switch on the power to the insert?
When drilling through the fireplace, do you drill through the mortar or the brick?
What do I seal the hole with?

 

[bholler]

I'm looking for some advice on how and where to install a high-temperature wire into the fireplace box. We don't want a wire running outside of the box.This is for a flush mount wood insert.

I think the best option is from the outlet on the backside of the fireplace, shown in picture 3. With that option, I'm not sure how to get the wire into the junction box - more of an electrical question. Do I remove the existing Jbox and install an old work junction box?

Another option I thought of was putting a new outlet/junction box in the side of the closet in picture 4, which is on the right side of the fireplace - so drill through the side of the fireplace, run a wire from the outlet in the back wall (pic 3) over to the closet to bring power, then put in a new jbox. It seems like an extra step to do it this way, but I wouldn't have to remove the box on the back wall - just run wire out of it over to the closet. There is probably a 6" gap between the back wall and the fireplace so there is plenty of space to run a wire.

Questions:
What do you think is the best option?
Should I install a switch on the power to the insert?
When drilling through the fireplace, do you drill through the mortar or the brick?
What do I seal the hole with?

It is against code to put an outlet in the fireplace behind an insert. The only way it can be compliant is if the insert is designed to be hardwired. I believe lopi is the only one but I could be wrong.

 

[begreen]

If hardwired, a switch is required for servicing. This is just a short run. Glue the cord along the bottom edge of the brick with silicone and paint it blue, then route it through a cord cover to the outlet.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Home-Electronics-Cable-Management-Cord-Covers/N-5yc1vZc65e

 

[PabloK]

It is against code to put an outlet in the fireplace behind an insert. The only way it can be compliant is if the insert is designed to be hardwired. I believe lopi is the only one but I could be wrong.

The outlet/jbox wouldn't be in the firebox, only the high temp wire kit which is in flexible conduit. The stove is a Lopi (FireplaceXtrodinair)

 

[PabloK]

If hardwired, a switch is required for servicing. This is just a short run. Glue the cord along the bottom edge of the brick with silicone and paint it blue, then route it through a cord cover to the outlet.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Home-Electronics-Cable-Management-Cord-Covers/N-5yc1vZc65e

We're trying to avoid running it out the front.

 

[jetsam]

They're telling you the legal way to do it.

I dropped a handybox in my fireplace (popped a hole in a mortar joint and ran a piece of BX straight from the panel).

Begreen's suggestion is a good one. You don't have a lot of complicating factors in your install. You can drop a new outlet next to the fireplace for under $5.

 

[bholler]

If the insert is set up.to be hardwired you will need to install a switch in the room to comtol the power feed. Drilling the hole is usually no big deal it doesn't matter where

 

[webby3650]

If it has the inside wiring kit from Lopi, why would it need a switch? What makes it any different than say a FPX Elite? Or a dishwasher for that matter?

 

[bholler]

If it has the inside wiring kit from Lopi, why would it need a switch? What makes it any different than say a FPX Elite? Or a dishwasher for that matter?

I believe you need a switch for the fpx as well. The difference is code requirements which you should know. I agree it is silly but code is code. We don't get to pick and choose. Well at least we shouldnt.

 

[webby3650]

I believe you need a switch for the fpx as well. The difference is code requirements which you should know. I agree it is silly but code is code. We don't get to pick and choose. Well at least we shouldnt.

I knew you’d have to throw a little jab in there. That’s ok..

Every FPX gets wired by a licensed electrician, we just stub the wire kit out, they take it from there. Then it’s looked over by the building inspector, I’ve never seen one switched. We install in half a dozen or so different counties, only one asked for some type of inline fuse, but no switch. It was weird.

 

[bholler]

I knew you’d have to throw a little jab in there. That’s ok..

Every FPX gets wired by a licensed electrician, we just stub the wire kit out, they take it from there. Then it’s looked over by the building inspector, I’ve never seen one switched. We install in half a dozen or so different counties, only one asked for some type of inline fuse, but no switch. It was weird.

I have never done a fpx so I don't know but I have done a few quads an 2 of the Olympia ones made by SBI and they both required switched power.

 

[bholler]

And regardless of who runs the power it is being hooked to a unit you installed so you need to be sure it is done right. That is your responsibility and you and the electrician would share liability. The inspector has no liability at all.

 

[webby3650]

I have never done a fpx so I don't know but I have done a few quads an 2 of the Olympia ones made by SBI and they both required switched power.

We’ve installed a bunch of the sbi/hearthstone fireplaces. The local authorities have never required it but some like the blower on a switch.
Like I said, in new construction we just stub the wire out and they take it from there.
They do require a floor valve right in front of a DV Fireplace, that has an accessible valve right behind the louvre. Most of the time you can see the valve handle right through the louvre. It’s funny what they think is important sometimes.

 

[jetsam]

We’ve installed a bunch of the sbi/hearthstone fireplaces. The local authorities have never required it but some like the blower on a switch.
Like I said, in new construction we just stub the wire out and they take it from there.
They do require a floor valve right in front of a DV Fireplace, that has an accessible valve right behind the louvre. Most of the time you can see the valve handle right through the louvre. It’s funny what they think is important sometimes.

I had an 8' sliding door that got tagged (25+ years after its install) by a fire marshal because a foot of it at the far end was obstructed by a roof support beam. He said the beam had to be moved.

I grilled him on it. The 8' door with 1' obstructed at the far end could kill someone in a fire because the whole doorway wasn't useable.

So if I put in a 6' door, would thay be okay? Yes, of course.

If I replaced it with an 3' interior door, then it would be okay? Yes, that's allowed.

If I removed the door and walled it off? Well, it's not a fire exit, so I guess that's also okay.

So do still need to reduce a 7' interior door to 3' in order to make the opening larger? Yes!


...

 

[bholler]

We’ve installed a bunch of the sbi/hearthstone fireplaces. The local authorities have never required it but some like the blower on a switch.
Like I said, in new construction we just stub the wire out and they take it from there.
They do require a floor valve right in front of a DV Fireplace, that has an accessible valve right behind the louvre. Most of the time you can see the valve handle right through the louvre. It’s funny what they think is important sometimes.

I agree it is funny what they call out. But the fact is it doesn't matter if they sign off or not. If anything ever happens unless the ahj gave you a written waiver is the written code and instruction manual

 

[webby3650]

Well fortunately this isn’t a safety concern. Hiding an outlet behind an insert could be, and shouldn’t be done. that’s the important part of this thread.

 

[tadmaz]

When I put an outlet in no one freaked out. The outlet is switched nearby.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/looking-for-insert-advice.165674/page-2#post-2248572

 

[bholler]

Well fortunately this isn’t a safety concern. Hiding an outlet behind an insert could be, and shouldn’t be done. that’s the important part of this thread.

I agree completely not a safety issue. But it still needs to be done to code and manufacturers specs

 

[PabloK]

Well fortunately this isn’t a safety concern. Hiding an outlet behind an insert could be, and shouldn’t be done. that’s the important part of this thread.

Just to be clear, the intention isn't putting the outlet behind the insert in the fireplace. We would drill through the fireplace, run a high temp kit through the hole, then direct wire up to an outlet that is on the wall behind the fireplace. So, to cut power, you would have to flip the breaker downstairs. I could wire up an outlet/switch on that outlet. I would be a little weird having a switch 12" off the ground and I'd prefer not to but it wouldn't be a real big issue if we have to. I was going to do the wiring myself, but have a vendor install the stove.

 

[webby3650]

When I put an outlet in no one freaked out. The outlet is switched nearby.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/looking-for-insert-advice.165674/page-2#post-2248572

Because there’s no reason to freak out...

 

[bholler]

When I put an outlet in no one freaked out. The outlet is switched nearby.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/looking-for-insert-advice.165674/page-2#post-2248572

And no one freaked out here either. Just discussing what is required to meet code. And btw yours does not. I doubt it is a safety issue but it is not tested that way so we don't know.

 

[webby3650]

When I put an outlet in no one freaked out. The outlet is switched nearby.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/looking-for-insert-advice.165674/page-2#post-2248572

Now the fireplace police will shut you down! Whistles, sirens and all!

 

[bholler]

Now the fireplace police will shut you down! Whistles, sirens and all!

I am sorry that I offend you so much by making people aware of what is required by code. But that is my responsibility as an industry professional and I take that responsibility seriously. I am not sure why you don't.

 

[webby3650]

I am sorry that I offend you so much by making people aware of what is required by code. But that is my responsibility as an industry professional and I take that responsibility seriously. I am not sure why you don't.

I just try to be practical is all.

 

[bholler]

I just try to be practical is all.

And as a pro the practical thing to do is follow all applicable codes. Doing otherwise opens you up to liability which is very impractical. I agree some codes seem silly. But they are still the rules we need to go by. And to me if you start ignoring one code it is a slippery slope that can end badly especially if you have employees