Advice on insert vs stove to replace Superior zero clearance fireplace

[triceps]

Hello, looking to improve upon our current Superior zero clearance fireplace in our mountain cabin.

From what I’ve read it sounds like there aren’t very many insert options that work with this fireplace?

Also, does anyone know if any of the inserts that do work are 2020 EPA rated and eligible for federal tax credit? and/or California smoke reduction program rebates (‘emission rates not to exceed 2.0 grams/hour”)?

Another thing I read that people might do in cases like ours is remove the whole old unit out and put in a different insert, or make an alcove for a stove?

More context:

The cabin is about 2000 ft.² and is located at about 7500 feet of elevation.

Looking to use this as the primary heating source for the cabin during the winter. I have ample free supply of wood nearby.

Couple of photos of the existing unit attached for reference. Dimensions of the fire box space: 42”w x 27”h x 21”d.

Cabin is two stories and fireplace is located centrally in an open floor plan with sleeping loft directly above.

Suggestions and ideas greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[triceps]

Also, not sure we actually have a Superior model as we found this “Majestic THULMAN" overview/pamphlet when we bought the cabin.

Our chimney/fireplace inspector report stated it was a Superior, but wondering if there is a way to somehow check, or whether this is even relevant?

 

[begreen]

Yes, it's highly relevant if this is what is installed. Is there any mention of the word "insert" in this document?
If not, it may be ok with the caveat of the close by woodwork clearances. bholler, any concerns?

 

[triceps]

Is there any mention of the word "insert" in this document?

No, I do not see any mention of the word "insert" in the Majestic document.

What is described is a "factory built "pre-engineered" fireplace "with a firebox and triple-wall metal flue built with inner air spaces that keep the outer surfaces "safe cool" so they can be placed against wood surfaces to save space and installation costs. The triple-wall flue operates on the "Thermo-Siphon" principle and air circulates within the walls of the flue and around the firebox."

 

[bholler]

No, I do not see any mention of the word "insert" in the Majestic document.

What is described is a "factory built "pre-engineered" fireplace "with a firebox and triple-wall metal flue built with inner air spaces that keep the outer surfaces "safe cool" so they can be placed against wood surfaces to save space and installation costs. The triple-wall flue operates on the "Thermo-Siphon" principle and air circulates within the walls of the flue and around the firebox."

Yes but does it say anything about using parts or accessories other than what is specified by the manufacturer

 

[begreen]

The fireplace seems to be a Majestic version of the heatform fireplace style with heat convection around the entire firebox. I'm not seeing any insert caveats in the manual.
(broken link removed)

 

[triceps]

No.

I think it is quite old, possibly late-1960s (cabin built in ‘68).

 

[triceps]

The fireplace seems to be a Majestic version of the heatform fireplace style with heat convection around the entire firebox. I'm not seeing any insert caveats in the manual.
(broken link removed)

Yes our inspector thinks it’s the L42A model. He said Majestic was originally owned by Superior Fireplace at one time, so the manners are sometimes used interchangeably..

Thoughts on insert and stove options?

Thanks.

 

[bholler]

The fireplace seems to be a Majestic version of the heatform fireplace style with heat convection around the entire firebox. I'm not seeing any insert caveats in the manual.
(broken link removed)

Looks just like most early zero clearance units to me

 

[bholler]

Thoughts on insert and stove options?

Thanks.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with an insert in there

 

[triceps]

I wouldn't feel comfortable with an insert in there

So you'd recommend taking it completely out and installing a stove?

 

[bholler]

So you'd recommend taking it completely out and installing a stove?

That's what I would do

 

[triceps]

That's what I would do

But that’s just your preference right? Jotul says models like the Oslo are designed to work with zero clearance prefab fireplaces (p. 8)

https://www.jotul.com/sites/usa/files/products/Wood%20Product%20Planning%20Guide%202020%20Rev.%20C.pdf

 

[begreen]

But that’s just your preference right? Jotul says models like the Oslo are designed to work with zero clearance prefab fireplaces (p. 8)

https://www.jotul.com/sites/usa/files/products/Wood%20Product%20Planning%20Guide%202020%20Rev.%20C.pdf

That info is for putting a freestanding stove in front that is vented via an approved liner inside of the fireplace chimney. This is an option with a rear-venting stove as long as the flue outlet is below the lintel of the fireplace and clearance + hearth requirements are met.

Jøtul freestanding models are approved for installation into a factory-built fireplace with use of an HT chimney relining kit, listed to UL 1777.

 

[hoot]

My Superior ZC WRT3042RS has a warning stating..
"Do not install a fireplace insert in this fireplace unless the manufacturer's instructions with the insert specifically state this fireplace has been tested for use with this insert."

 

[begreen]

My Superior ZC WRT3042RS has a warning stating..
"Do not install a fireplace insert in this fireplace unless the manufacturer's instructions with the insert specifically state this fireplace has been tested for use with this insert."

One ZC's manual does not apply to others. Only a few have a line like that. Many specifically prohibit installing an insert.

 

[hoot]

One ZC's manual does not apply to others. Only a few have a line like that. Many specifically prohibit installing an insert.

Yea I get that. It's confusing. The Lopi insert site says it's compatible with Superior and even goes on to tell you what parts you can and cannot remove to get the insert into my ZC fireplace.
On two different pamphlets for my Superior it has conflicting instructions....

INSTALLATION AND OPERATION INSTRUCTIONS
Superior® Pro Series Wood-Burning Fireplaces

WARNING: Do not install a fireplace insert in this
fireplace unless the manufacturer's instructions with
the insert specifically state this fireplace has been
tested for use with this insert.


HOMEOWNERS GUIDE FOR YOUR
WOOD BURNING FIREPLACE
3.Use of an insert in an IHP fireplace. IHP
does not recommend or authorize the
use of any insert in our fireplaces and
will assume no responsibility for any
damages caused by an insert.

So "Does not recommend or authorize" looks to simply be a disclaimer. It does not forbid it.

 

[begreen]

Yes, it varies from company to company and from manual to manual. Some ZC manuals are very explicit in prohibiting an insert installation and others are more ambiguous.

 

[joop]

and if you plan on heating only with wood, zc ain't gonna do it

 

[mcdougy]

and if you plan on heating only with wood, zc ain't gonna do it

A new zero clearance of current times definetly has the capabilities of heating this space. I'm able to heat a space larger than this 24/7 when required with a zc fireplace.

 

[mcdougy]

I would consider ripping the zc out, and installing a free standing stove with a minimum 3 cuft firebox.

 

[joop]

not the old piece of crap in my daughters house lol.but ya my cousin has a newer one and it does throw of some nice heat

 

[hoot]

"The Medium Flush Wood NexGen-Fyre™ Insert converts a wasteful masonry or zero clearance fireplace into an excellent heat source that can provide reliable warmth at a fraction of the cost of electricity or oil."
(broken link removed to https://www.lopistoves.com/product/medium-flush-wood-nexgen-fyre-arch/)

 

[PAbeech]

Hello, looking to improve upon our current Superior zero clearance fireplace in our mountain cabin.

From what I’ve read it sounds like there aren’t very many insert options that work with this fireplace?

Also, does anyone know if any of the inserts that do work are 2020 EPA rated and eligible for federal tax credit? and/or California smoke reduction program rebates (‘emission rates not to exceed 2.0 grams/hour”)?

Another thing I read that people might do in cases like ours is remove the whole old unit out and put in a different insert, or make an alcove for a stove?

More context:

The cabin is about 2000 ft.² and is located at about 7500 feet of elevation.

Looking to use this as the primary heating source for the cabin during the winter. I have ample free supply of wood nearby.

Couple of photos of the existing unit attached for reference. Dimensions of the fire box space: 42”w x 27”h x 21”d.

Cabin is two stories and fireplace is located centrally in an open floor plan with sleeping loft directly above.

Suggestions and ideas greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

View attachment 318250 View attachment 318251

I'd reccomend pulling that zero clearance fireplace out and installing a "pacific energy" fp25 or fp30 both those fireplaces are zc and is a good option if they fit. They require new 6" double wall chimney

 

[hoot]

I'd reccomend pulling that zero clearance fireplace out and installing a "pacific energy" fp25 or fp30 both those fireplaces are zc and is a good option if they fit. They require new 6" double wall chimney

They aren't so easy to pull out. Often they are built in with the facia needing to be removed.