Advice please! Installation for Insert.. Is an insulated pipe needed, etc?

[JimGr]

I'm in a 2100sqft ranch (built in 1970s), just about ready to pull the trigger on a Pacific Energy Super insert, and hopefully make this site-built brick fireplace do a little more than just show. I'm located in Arkansas, where winter lows average in the teens, but had some dips this year down to -20°F. I'd like to make sure that the insert is done right.

• Do I need to make sure it has insulated pipe?
• How do I tell if I need an Outside Air Kit? (I am getting quite a bit of attic insulation and sealing in the early fall through an energy audit from the power company. I thought it might make sense to get the wood burning stove insert first- is this the right order?)
• Seems like a block off plate is a wise addition. Are there any other things I should make certain get done?

 

[begreen]

The odds are it will need to have the stainless chimney liner insulated. A block-off plate is a good idea. Outside air is not a necessity. It can be a challenge to bring into the insert in some installations. Sometimes this is done via the ashpit.

 

[blades]

Need to do research on the fire place, make/ model. likely a prefab unit with a brick facade, some of those back in day did not have the best flue systems. A lot were zero clearance. The flue was two sections an inner and outer pipes they tend to rust out over time. Considering what I have seen - a lot of time the fire box was right up against the wood supporting structure and same for the bottom as well as the flue pipe. over time the supports or other items in contact with it become charred. You end up with a fire starting inside the wall. Not trying to be a doomsday type but you really need a pro to dig around in there before doing anything else. Inspector ( Fire Marshall) from the fire department would be my choice a standard building inspector generally is not well versed in that area. happened to a friend of mine several years back. 2 story he just happened to brushed against the facade and found it to be rather hot where it should not have been- became a hot time in the old town. He got lucky and the fire department caught it before it became extremely serious, still there was some 20K+ of structural damage up inside the wall both floors. Although it had not broken through the roof yet. no one hurt.

 

[bholler]

Need to do research on the fire place, make/ model. likely a prefab unit with a brick facade, some of those back in day did not have the best flue systems. A lot were zero clearance. The flue was two sections an inner and outer pipes they tend to rust out over time. Considering what I have seen - a lot of time the fire box was right up against the wood supporting structure and same for the bottom as well as the flue pipe. over time the supports or other items in contact with it become charred. You end up with a fire starting inside the wall. Not trying to be a doomsday type but you really need a pro to dig around in there before doing anything else. Inspector ( Fire Marshall) from the fire department would be my choice a standard building inspector generally is not well versed in that area. happened to a friend of mine several years back. 2 story he just happened to brushed against the facade and found it to be rather hot where it should not have been- became a hot time in the old town. He got lucky and the fire department caught it before it became extremely serious, still there was some 20K+ of structural damage up inside the wall both floors. Although it had not broken through the roof yet. no one hurt.

What would make you assume it was a prefab fireplace? He said it was a site built brick fireplace

 

[bholler]

I'm in a 2100sqft ranch (built in 1970s), just about ready to pull the trigger on a Pacific Energy Super insert, and hopefully make this site-built brick fireplace do a little more than just show. I'm located in Arkansas, where winter lows average in the teens, but had some dips this year down to -20°F. I'd like to make sure that the insert is done right.

• Do I need to make sure it has insulated pipe?
• How do I tell if I need an Outside Air Kit? (I am getting quite a bit of attic insulation and sealing in the early fall through an energy audit from the power company. I thought it might make sense to get the wood burning stove insert first- is this the right order?)
• Seems like a block off plate is a wise addition. Are there any other things I should make certain get done?

It is very likely that you do need an insulated liner both for safety and code compliance but even if not required you still want insulation it really does help with performance.

An outside air kit is always a benifit if it can be installed properly.

Yes you want a block off plate it isn't required but is a big benifit for performance

 

[JimGr]

What would make you assume it was a prefab fireplace?

Hmmmm... Good point. I THINK it is a masonry fireplace. But... I'm not certain.
Looks like it is masonry, then leading to a clay flue.

 

[bholler]

Hmmmm... Good point. I THINK it is a masonry fireplace. But... I'm not certain.
Looks like it is masonry, then leading to a clay flue.

If it has clay liners it is a masonry fireplace. It still needs inspected before install

 

[blades]

1970 build prefab very common , lite sheet metal box brick panels in fire box may or may not have a brick flue with clay tile liners. Complete build on site brick type fireplace not very common.

 

[bholler]

1970 build prefab very common , lite sheet metal box brick panels in fire box may or may not have a brick flue with clay tile liners. Complete build on site brick type fireplace not very common.

What 70s zero clearance boxes allowed the use of clay tiles? Or are you referring to metal heatform fireboxes that are built into complete masonry structures. As far as site built masonry fireplaces not being common that is completely regional. We don't see any prefabs from before the mid 80s here and site built masonry fireplaces are still very common in new construction.

By the way I completely agree with your assessment of prefab fireplaces. I just have never seen or heard of ones that use clay tiles. And I don't see how the tiles would be supported they certainly can't rest on a thin sheet metal box

 

[Corey]

I'm in the same boat house and fireplace wise, couple states north of you. I'd say definitely insulate it. You want it done 'right' and insulation will be as 'right' as it gets. Insulation will also help draft on the not-so-cold days...assuming similar 70's ranches with low 4/12 roofs, or any other reason your flue might not be ~20-25+ft tall. Insulation will also help some on efficiency because heat will either be going into your room, or out the top of the flue to make draft, not needlessly heating up the brick chimney. Blockoff plate is good too. OAK can be a bit hit or miss depending on how 'tight' your house is. 70's ranches aren't known to be ultra high effieicncy, but if you're doing work on it, it might tighten up considerably.

Good luck!