Air gap for chimney pipe?

[drstorm]

I posted some pics in another thread about my new Blaze King Chinook install.
Anyway,I noticed a gap about 1/4 inch that goes about halfway around the collar of the pipe through the wall and can see a small amount of daylight on the other end.
I figured I could just seal it on the inside with some gasket or hi temp silicon(webby mentioned silver silicone for the outside to match).However,I spoke to the installer today for the first time since and brought it up,he said it is designed that way for airflow and he couldn't recommend sealing it up.
I'll attach some pictures again and am just asking for your thoughts.
How much cold air seepage am I looking at if I leave this open?Water and insect/rodent entry point?
The pipe passes through cinder block wall and has a pretty good clearance I can see they put around it.
Thanks!

 

[bholler]

Honestly that does not look like the right part there should never be that much of a gap. And no you do not need airflow there. Make them fix it.

 

[drstorm]

Honestly that does not look like the right part there should never be that much of a gap. And no you do not need airflow there. Make them fix it.

I was hoping that wasn't going to be the answer.So now what is my leverage or how do I ask again since he already claims that's the design and he couldn't be responsible if I changed it?He basically already indicated there is nothing wrong.

 

[ccmac]

He is wrong. That is not right! You should not see daylight thru this. You will have air pouring thru there come bitter cold winter. Sorry but this is where you are gonna have to be the bad guy and tell him what he does not want to hear.......fix this. If this is the "system" he uses then tell him it is unacceptable and he will need to fix it. Never give them a chance to back out by saying things like, can you fix this? You need to say instead, fix it please, it is unacceptable to me.

Realistically......he knows this is not right, I doubt he argues much. He needs to do this right. You have a beautiful home and stove, you should not settle for that kind of work.

 

[drstorm]

Thanks for the replies so far.It was this forum that helped me learn about so many aspects to wood stoves and wood burning.All my research and money invested led me to the Blaze King stove.It's disappointing that the dealer doesn't hold the same obvious high standard as BK themselves. Anyone can keep adding to the opinions on this install.The more knowledge I can gain the better,its just tough when the installer
flat out says its the way its designed.Being new,that one was something I didn't have an immediate come back too.

 

[bholler]

So now what is my leverage or how do I ask again since he already claims that's the design and he couldn't be responsible if I changed it?He basically already indicated there is nothing wrong.

call the chimney manufacturer

 

[heavy hammer]

I Agree with the others something is not right I'm pretty sure you don't want a gap running through your wall. Calling the manufacturer is a good idea they should be able to help you get the right stuff.

 

[bholler]

they should be able to help you get the right stuff

No they should give him the info he needs to make this hack fix the job he screwed up. Guys like that make the rest of us look bad. They obviously take no pride in their work

 

[heavy hammer]

That's what I'm getting at. He should not have to fix it himself. The installer should do it. The manufacturer can see what was used and what was not used on this install and tell the homeowner what the installer needs to fix.

 

[bholler]

That's what I'm getting at. He should not have to fix it himself. The installer should do it. The manufacturer can see what was used and what was not used on this install and tell the homeowner what the installer needs to fix.

Ahhh I thought you were saying they could get him the right stuff o fix it himself sorry.

 

[heavy hammer]

No I agree with you the installer needs to fix his screw up. That's what he was paid for now he has to make it right.

 

[electrathon]

Aside from the incorrect installation/air gap issue... Am I seeing a 1" thick bead of silicone caulk on lap siding? If so it really needs to be removed and properly trimmed in, that will not last. I sure hope the guy put it in without a permit, because if an inspector passed this install you have two inept people involved.

 

[bholler]

Aside from the incorrect installation/air gap issue... Am I seeing a 1" thick bead of silicone caulk on lap siding? If so it really needs to be removed and properly trimmed in, that will not last. I sure hope the guy put it in without a permit, because if an inspector passed this install you have two inept people involved.

I see no obvious code violations at all so we can see no reason for an inspector to fail it. Yes it is a crappy install and it needs fixed but I cant see any reason it would be unsafe. And inspectors only check for code nothing more. And in my experience they are not even all that good at that.

 

[drstorm]

Well,I spoke with 3 different people today at different offices for this dealer.They all claim this is how every install looks and it's a duravent design.They even offered to bring out a duravent rep to explain it.
I emailed duravent the photo's with a detailed question on whether or not this install is done by their standards.
I sure wish BKVP would see this post and comment,as this is one of their only dealers in my area with multiple locations.
I'll let you all know what duravent says(if anything)but as of now the dealer,installer and everyone on their end think I'm crazy.

 

[bholler]

They all claim this is how every install looks and it's a duravent design.

If that is the way their products are designed there is something seriously wrong. We stopped using simpson products because of poor fit and finish but that is way beyond anything we ever saw from them.

 

[begreen]

Duratech installation instructions state:


Though not required, on a yurt installation we did we also put a storm collar on the outside and siliconed it into place. The yurt has no eaves leaving this area quite exposed to rain and weather. The installation was done 10 years ago and is still leak free including no air leaks.

 

[BigFir]

Good work BG, it does not appear to enter 6". But if it did, would that gap be taken up? Not to sure if it would make a difference. Just another flaw with the install?

 

[begreen]

The interior gap doesn't matter as far as air leaks go if the exterior pipe is properly sealed as directed. My guess is that it's there to avoid scraping the paint off the branch pipe to the tee? It looks like a bead of black silicone could be applied there if it bothers you.

 

[bholler]

It looks like a bead of black silicone could be applied there if it bothers you.

That gap is way to large to be covered with caulk. Yes it is typical to have a very small gap that needs a bead but that is way more than normal.

 

[drstorm]

I think a very kind rep from Duravent helped find out whats going on here.
If my installer would have just said this I would have understood,at least the theory.
Its a system designed for intaking combustion air.I guess they felt this is what I needed.I'll be able to talk to them a little more about this conclusion now since I know what we are even talking about.
I used to burn anthracite for years in an old keystoker in my basement before I decided to retire that and start putting the heat where it was needed.As I do here,I read alot on the NEPA crossroads anthracite forum.I never felt I needed one since the basement was somewhat air leaky.
Anyway,I'll attach the pdf's.

 

[bholler]

If my installer would have just said this I would have understood,at least the theory.
Its a system designed for intaking combustion air.

No yours is not hooked up that way and your chimney is insulated double wall not the triple wall indicated in that pdf

 

[drstorm]

Here's the entire pdf I believe.
Is there a double wall version?
Am I back at square one of a bad install or is there any sense to this?

 

[drstorm]

Ok,your right,it doesnt make sense.
Its like they installed their own version of this but bringing the cold air directly in the house.

 

[bholler]

Is there a double wall version?

No there is no air space in double wall chimney to pull air through. And honestly pulling outside air in around the chimney is a bad idea. You would be cooling the flue gasses by pulling cool air around the pipe. That is bad especially on a stove like yours that already runs pretty cool.

Am I back at square one of a bad install or is there any sense to this?

Yes it is a bad install. It honestly looks like they used the wrong component there that gap is way to large.

 

[drstorm]

No there is no air space in double wall chimney to pull air through. And honestly pulling outside air in around the chimney is a bad idea. You would be cooling the flue gasses by pulling cool air around the pipe. That is bad especially on a stove like yours that already runs pretty cool.


Yes it is a bad install. It honestly looks like they used the wrong component there that gap is way to large.

Thanks.
I just have to figure a way out to not keep this as a very expensive paper weight.