Air intake from outside or not?

[jimcooncat]

When my installer put in my Napoleon NPS-40, he said I didn't need the air intake piped to outside the house. Now that it's getting chillier and I've used it some, I wonder if it's the right move.

Intake from within the house seemed smart to me -- the fire is burning with 68 degree air. I'm now pumping air from inside to outside the house. That inside air must be replaced to even the air pressure. So now the pressure outside the house is greater than inside, forcing cold air in through any leaks I have. As I'm buttoning up the house more, I can imagine that whenever I open the door a blast of cold air is going to be sucked in.

With an intake from outside, the fire will be burning with zero degree air. But there won't be any pressure difference inside and outside the house, and would reduce infiltration.

What do you think?

 

[cac4]

The temperature of the combustion air is not a significant factor. If anything, the fire will burn hotter with colder air, because cold air has a higher concentration of O2.

consider the 68 degree combustion air: you paid money to get that air to 68 degrees; now, you're sucking it out of the house at a high rate.

 

[Xena]

Added outside air last month after running
a few years without it. In the living room
where the stove is located, there was always
a cold draft at floor level due to the stove
sucking up the inside air. My feet would even
sometimes feel cold. Thing of the past now.
If I ever install another stove I will set it up
using outside air from the start.

 

[jimcooncat]

You guys just plain rock. I stopped by my stove guy's place today (Monitor of Maine in Benton, tell 'em Jim Como sent ya) but he just said, "Yeah, it would burn more efficiently."

But you really answered this well, so my girlfriend and I could understand it. "It's sucking the heat right out of our house!" Smart. She's had cold feet too. We bought an electric mattress pad set last week -- I highly recommend 'em.

I didn't know that colder air had more oxygen. My fire needs all it can get! Maybe we can stay with every-other-day cleaning instead of having a clunker in the pan on the second morning.

 

[sydney1963]

OAK highly recommended.

 

[peirhead]

Check your owner's manuel as a lot of stoves do not use the outside air for combustion but as supply to the circulation blower/heat exchanger...so the idea is you are burning stale room air @68 deg F and replacing it with fresh heated air...

If you have a balanced type air exchange system any make up air will be supplied through it and an OAK install would not be necessary at all.

 

[trogers]

I had astove installed in September with no OAK...big mistake. Flame was always lazy, never big like the showroom. I installed OAK and eveything is better now!

 

[pelletfan]

I want just to add my 2cents in favor of an outside air intake too.
On the beginning I thought like so many other stove users that I would not need one.
Big mistake.
Our home is very nice insulated etc. etc. so quite energy efficient one could call it.
When using my pellet-stove, I noticed that my two bathrooms which are on the same level than the Pellet Stove were cold like refrigerators.
It did not matter, if I left the door open or closed. Everyone in my family complained.
When looking into the matter I noticed that the stove was drawing cold air from the bathroom through the exhaust fans (least resistance).
After installing air flaps on the exhaust fans and an air intake for the stove, the temperature in the bathrooms turned to normal again.
Just never thought that the stove would be able to draw that much air through the exhaust fans.

 

[cac4]

Just never thought that the stove would be able to draw that much air through the exhaust fans.

my forced hot air furnace is in the basement, and uses indoor air for combustion. The wife often leaves the basement door open, so that she can hear the clothes dryer "buzz" when its finished a load. When the furnace kicks on, that door will close all by itself, with "authority". The knob latches with a firm "ca-THUNK".

 

[Lance1]

Sorry for the newbie question; What does OAK stand for?

 

[j00fek]

once i get my stove in the right spot, ill be adding the OAK. but since my house is like a screen poarch, ill wait till the house is finished next yr.

 

[cac4]

Sorry for the newbie question; What does OAK stand for?

"outside air kit".

so the stove can suck in its combustion air from the outside of the house.

 

[Lance1]

Thank you. There are kits?

My stove combustion intake is inside. I would like to put it outside, but I have a corner installed insert and would have to cut a person size hole in the wall to get to it. (bought a house with the stove already installed)

 

[bungalobob]

Thank you. There are kits?

My stove combustion intake is inside. I would like to put it outside, but I have a corner installed insert and would have to cut a person size hole in the wall to get to it. (bought a house with the stove already installed)

If your stove allows it, there are kits. I was at the stove shop the other day planning the install and they showed the small 'birdcage box' and flex stainless pipe that would hook up to it. The piping is small, between, I think between 2 1/2 to 3 inches.
You should be able to move your stove out and get behind it. No need for a person size hole. If you have a wood frame house all you need is a hole saw and silicone. Look up your stove and see if it can take an OAK. Good luck.

 

[MrKLeen]

I have the same stove as you, see my post from a different thread...

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/28593/

By the way, the intake on the stove is 2 inches, I simply cut the flex pipe in 4 places and foil taped it on, then insulated around the pipe. It works great and does not leak. This is how my dealer said to do it.

 

[slls]

Thank you. There are kits?

My stove combustion intake is inside. I would like to put it outside, but I have a corner installed insert and would have to cut a person size hole in the wall to get to it. (bought a house with the stove already installed)

If your stove allows it, there are kits. I was at the stove shop the other day planning the install and they showed the small 'birdcage box' and flex stainless pipe that would hook up to it. The piping is small, between, I think between 2 1/2 to 3 inches.
You should be able to move your stove out and get behind it. No need for a person size hole. If you have a wood frame house all you need is a hole saw and silicone. Look up your stove and see if it can take an OAK. Good luck.

I bought a 2 1/2 hole saw for mine, 1 hole in and 1 hole out with some silicone to seal.
Bought 2 inch aluminum pipe and made the rest.

 

[Lance1]

I found the OAK at the hardware store, it was $50 I went to the auto parts store and got 1.75" aluminum flex tubing for $6. I found out my fireplace insert had a fresh air channel in it and is hooked up to the outside, so I tapped onto that.

There is no way I can set a pipe to the outside without cutting a person size hole in the wall. My stove is a corner install with walls.

 

[jimcooncat]

** UPDATE **
Installed the OAK this afternoon. It was 60 bucks in the pellet shop, and all it consisted of was a 2" metal hose, an outdoor hood, and a hose clamp. Not even a wall thimble included -- yeah, I know it was a rip. She said, "buy it." So what's a boy to do?

Man, it was rough outside. After sawing the hole from the inside, I put on my zoot suit and got the outside drilled. Then I put the hose through from the outside, went back in, and saw how much I had extra. I marked it with a felt pen, then pushed it back outside a ways and put the end over my intake. That held it good while I hacksawed through it. I discarded the end, and pulled it back through the wall to clamp it to the intake. Then I went back out and screwed the hood into place. Back inside, I sealed around it with aluminum tape.

While the stove was down, my oil furnace clicked on. I've got it set at sixty on an electronic thermostat. If we ever bump up the heat, it will reset back to sixty degrees at the next four-hour mark.

I cleaned it good and fired that puppy up. It's working like it's supposed to now! No cold draft is building up around it, and the room is warming nicely. It went from 62 to 66 in about an hour and a half, and I believe it will top out at 72 or so. With the Arctic Blast going on outside today, I'm finally impressed by it. The floor in front of the stove is warm enough to lay down on the rug.

Unless you're installing in a small showroom like my pellet guy, an OAK is not an optional item. It's a necessity. Wished I had known that when the installers were here!

 

[bungalobob]

** UPDATE **
Installed the OAK this afternoon. It was 60 bucks in the pellet shop, and all it consisted of was a 2" metal hose, an outdoor hood, and a hose clamp. Not even a wall thimble included -- yeah, I know it was a rip. She said, "buy it." So what's a boy to do?

Man, it was rough outside. After sawing the hole from the inside, I put on my zoot suit and got the outside drilled. Then I put the hose through from the outside, went back in, and saw how much I had extra. I marked it with a felt pen, then pushed it back outside a ways and put the end over my intake. That held it good while I hacksawed through it. I discarded the end, and pulled it back through the wall to clamp it to the intake. Then I went back out and screwed the hood into place. Back inside, I sealed around it with aluminum tape.

While the stove was down, my oil furnace clicked on. I've got it set at sixty on an electronic thermostat. If we ever bump up the heat, it will reset back to sixty degrees at the next four-hour mark.

I cleaned it good and fired that puppy up. It's working like it's supposed to now! No cold draft is building up around it, and the room is warming nicely. It went from 62 to 66 in about an hour and a half, and I believe it will top out at 72 or so. With the Arctic Blast going on outside today, I'm finally impressed by it. The floor in front of the stove is warm enough to lay down on the rug.

Unless you're installing in a small showroom like my pellet guy, an OAK is not an optional item. It's a necessity. Wished I had known that when the installers were here!

Forget about the price and just enjoy the results. Congrats, too bad the furnace kicked on though.

 

[drizler]

If you have a standard sized inlet pipe you can just make one. For mine all I did was go to Lowes and buy a piece of Aluminum flexible dryer hose. The only hard part was drilling the 3 inch hole in the wall. Luckily I knew a guy who had a hole saw so I bummed his. I used an extra roof vent flashing disk to dress up the inside and just slid it in place and stuffed the dryer vent out the hole . For a cap I used a simple aluminum 3" B vent gas cap. It even looks good and the whole rig with a clamp cost me under $15. Using that hole saw made a hard job easy in so many ways by limiting penetration as I desired it so there were no surprises in the form of cut wires back in the wall. Also it keeps from splitting plastic siding in the cold as long as you are careful. I used a hair dryer to heat up the plastic siding as further insurance against splitting.

 

[Jester]

Ok
Ive been looking at this for the last few days. Ive got such a draft coming up from the basement and around every door and window on the first floor its insane. (up until this Fall I had no insulation in the house anywhere. Was burning a 275 of oil every 16-18 days keping the house at 68)

My instalation is in the middle of the living/dining room on the street side of my cape. I think to alleviate the cold air being sucked in every crevice Im going to do the OAK
I'd like to keep it decent looking, and am even going to go so far as to paint it black.
Who makes a decent OAK with an internal wall thimble?
Thanks
E

 

[Xena]

Jester, I used automotive exhaust flex pipe
adapted into 3" flex dryer vent then went
into a dryer vent kit. I used a 2" to 3" coupler
I found at the hardware store to join the pipes.
It looks fine on the outside.

Post #15 in this thread has pictures of the finished set up.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/25479/
Here's the same dryer vent I used:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00171RQEO?smid=A9HNR4I8RXLVW&tag=dealt28673-20&linkCode=asn

 

[suzannegale]

I have a question about whether an OAK is needed with my install or not. My Englander is in the basement, which is very large (runs the entire length of the house). The guys who installed the stove said the OAK wasn't needed because the basement isn't insulated and it's large enough to have plenty of cold air. They also said it wasn't required by code with the dimensions on the basement. They were very particular about sticking to code on everything else, so I'm inclined to believe them.

Guess I'll have to wait it out and see how the stove performs - I hope to not have to install an OAK because the stove is installed on the interior wall of my 2 family house and windows are across the room.

 

[Xena]

I have a question about
whether an OAK is needed with my install or not. They were very particular
about sticking to code on everything else, so I'm inclined to believe them......

I believe all Englander Stoves require outside air.
Check your stove manual.

 

[suzannegale]

Hi Zeta,

The manual did say they require OAK, so . . . even if it's not required for city code, it will be required for warranty/service from Englander. I'll look into getting an OAK kit. Thanks for the quick response! I think the installers were talking from a point of practicality - they said OAK is more of a necessity for smaller, airtight houses and mobile homes. My huge basement, draft New Englander home didn't set off any of their fireman flags which don't necessarily have anything to do with unit spec. I did like that my installers were all firemen - they have this other business on the side.