Air lever on Englander Madison - 50-TRSSW01

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Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
My Englander Madison has an air lever in the middle of the stove on above the front door. When the lever is pushed in, the air is on full. When the lever is pushed out, the air is cut down more and more as you go out. The lever also turns left and right. When the lever is pushed in all the way (full air), the lever will turn to the left but then pushes itself right back to the right. However, when the lever is pull out, even slightly, and you rotate the lever to the left, it stays in that position. Does anyone understand what this rotation to the left and right does?

Also, is there a primary damper on this stove or just this air control? I can not find a damper.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
The air lever does control the primary air. There is no flue damper or other air control. This stove has a start device called AAS. It's operation is explained on page 17 of the manual:

This unit also offers a new feature. When loading the stove for a long low burn, you can set the air control damper to allow the unit to heat up and get a good burn going before the air is closed off to the low position. Simply pull the rod out to low and turn it counter‐clockwise until you hear a slight “click” (about a quarter of a turn). When it is ready the damper will shut itself. This will work for low and medium low settings.

Here's more info in this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-madison-stove.131845/
 

spirilis

Minister of Fire
Sep 8, 2009
940
Baltimore, MD
Also see my thread here-http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/esw-madison-pics.146903/

I discuss a little about how the AAS works. Pushing the air control in all the way pushes the air damper past the "S" bracket that latches the AAS, so it will fall back to the right. This can be used to cancel the AAS feature if you change your mind and don't want to use it.
 
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Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
Thanks for the insight, however last night, I set the air lever about half way, turned it to the left, and waited. The stove reached 600 degrees with a magnet thermometer placed on the top middle of stove and stack temps were 800 degrees read with a probe thermometer 18" above top of stove. After 35 minutes and these temps on the stove, you can imagine, It was very very hot in the house. Needless to say the lever did not click back into position on its own. I had to manually adjust it. Am I doing something wrong.

I had a good coal bed and two splits that were caught on fire. The secondary burn tubes were even working, which my wife thought looked cool :)

Please help
 

spirilis

Minister of Fire
Sep 8, 2009
940
Baltimore, MD
Thanks for the insight, however last night, I set the air lever about half way, turned it to the left, and waited. The stove reached 600 degrees with a magnet thermometer placed on the top middle of stove and stack temps were 800 degrees read with a probe thermometer 18" above top of stove. After 35 minutes and these temps on the stove, you can imagine, It was very very hot in the house. Needless to say the lever did not click back into position on its own. I had to manually adjust it. Am I doing something wrong.

I had a good coal bed and two splits that were caught on fire. The secondary burn tubes were even working, which my wife thought looked cool :)

Please help
Hard to say. The AAS spring is in the back, so it's the back of the stove that needs to get hot...

I personally think the AAS is more appropriate for *reloads*, not initial starts. After going through a burn cycle the stove is more uniform in temperature so the AAS spring will have a better chance of de-latching the air control. Was this an initial start?
 
Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
It was an initial fire. I started the stove using split up 16" 2x4's. By split up I mean i take a chop ax and chop the 2x4's into 3 long pieces. I had 10 pieces and paper in the stove for about 10 minutes and then put two medium sized logs on top. It reached a bit above 1/2 up the firebox. I let those catch first and then activated the actuator/lever.
 

spirilis

Minister of Fire
Sep 8, 2009
940
Baltimore, MD
It was an initial fire. I started the stove using split up 16" 2x4's. By split up I mean i take a chop ax and chop the 2x4's into 3 long pieces. I had 10 pieces and paper in the stove for about 10 minutes and then put two medium sized logs on top. It reached a bit above 1/2 up the firebox. I let those catch first and then activated the actuator/lever.
Gotcha. Fwiw I haven't done too many fires in mine yet but none of the "initial start" fires have triggered the AAS yet.
 
Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
Have you noticed any smoking coming into your house when you go to reload the stove. At this point, if there is not an active fire and just coals or wood is still catching, if. I open the door smoke comes in.
 

spirilis

Minister of Fire
Sep 8, 2009
940
Baltimore, MD
Yeah that happens if the firebox is full of smoke. If there isn't much smoke I don't notice it much, but honestly I've never seen a stove that doesn't let a little smoke in the house when you open the door.

Better chimney draft should help but it can only go so far. Cracking the door open slowly can help.

Well that and only reloading when it's down to coals... if there's any flame or smoke in the firebox it's not time to reload yet.
 

Silenced38

Feeling the Heat
Apr 11, 2014
291
Southeast Oklahoma
I believe last year. Enlander told me that it needs a few heat cycles to break in the aas spring. But mine was still eratic at the end of last season.
 
Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
Yesterday, Englander told me that after a certain manufacture date they started putting counterweights on the actuator in the back of the stove. He seemed to think its either that or a faulty actuator.

Also, do you think the blower really works all that well? I am using the one that came with it. I don't seem to feel a difference in temps in the room or further away from the stove. Do you think it would work better without the side heat Shields?
 

Silenced38

Feeling the Heat
Apr 11, 2014
291
Southeast Oklahoma
I dont use the blower. Except when the stove gets really hot. Just to help cool it off. I might try adding a weight to mine.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
Rather than experimenting can you get the proper weight and weight attachment location from Englander support?
 
Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
If anyone uses a magnetic thermometer, where do you have it located on the stove? I want an accurate reading of the stove as a whole. Right now I have it located on the top of the stove top just in front of the flue where the pipe comes out. It's reading very hot and wondered if that's the most accurate temps. I am trying to see if maybe the stove is not getting hot enough for the actuator to engage or disengage for that matter.
 
Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
I just experimented with the magnetic thermometer. The stove reads between 500 and 550 on the top of the stove in front of the stove pipe. When I move the thermometer to the top back left of the stove, where the actuator is, it is now reading 350. The temperature change happened in 6 minutes. Do you think that might be why the actuator is not disengaging?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
It's relative to what the spring on the actuator is set to. If it is 350F then it would actuate. If it is 450F then it would not.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
I don't think so, but word is that Englander is now adding a weight to make it more sensitive. I'd give Englander support a call to see if they are offering an retrofit fix.
 
Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
I wanted to see if the AAS would work. So, this evening I stacked the stove with some bark and 2 medium sized splits. I pulled the air lever all the way out and set the actuator in place. I placed my magnetic thermometer on the front left top of the stove. Not sure where else to put it. The stove has now reached 625 degrees. The AAS did not disengage itself, however, I tapped the lever slightly in to be about 3/4 of the way out and it disengaged, but only when I tapped it. Do you think something is wrong with the mechanism? That was a trial and error and it seems not to work. I am going to call ESW tomorrow and discuss this with them. Let me know know your thoughts please.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
It could be that the mechanism needs to break in. If so I'd take the stove top up to 650F. That said, I agree with calling Englander. If the AAS doesn't trigger than how will it get broken in?
 
Nov 19, 2013
44
Boonton, NJ
Where would you place the magnetic thermometer? I have had it in three places on the top of the stove and all read differently. Please let me know your advice as to where I should put the thermometer.

Thanks so much. I'm getting a bit frustrated now. If this AAS thing doesn't work, I am returning the stove to lowes as a defect and will heat with NG.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
I'd locate the thermometer on the top a few inches in front of the flue collar. The AAS is just an aid, it does not affect the primary function of the stove which is to heat. I can appreciate your concern, but hopefully the stove still is heating well. Our stove has the early EBT control on it. I tested its functionality and didn't like how it affected startup. It's had a piece of aluminum tape over the intake for the EBT for 7 years now. I still love how the stove heats and am happy to see that a few years back PE addressed this issue.
 

spirilis

Minister of Fire
Sep 8, 2009
940
Baltimore, MD
That's interesting, it needed a bump. Wonder if it'd be possible to pop off the heat shields and put some graphite lubricant on the air control flange to help with that (not sure if graphite is the right thing, don't know how hot it can get back there)

Anyway, ditching the stove over this feature seems odd to me, as the firewood is quite a commitment to procure... but if you do have NG and it's cheap, I would have totally gone with a freestanding gas stove myself. Someday if I buy a house with NG that'll be my first heating mod.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
Graphite lube sounds like a reasonable try.
 

Silenced38

Feeling the Heat
Apr 11, 2014
291
Southeast Oklahoma
If i pull the air control all the way out it does somtime stick. So pull it all the way out set the trigger. Then bump it in just a hair. That way there is no tension on it except the trigger.
 
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