Air setting on PE T6....EBT....???

[jwscarab]

Hello all,

I have a question for T6 users. I have been using my T6 for a week now and absolutly Love it Even after 12 or more hours I have plenty of coals to start up a new load. The stove is just a pleasure to operate and easy to use.

But I have a question in one area where I may be going wrong when I reload and I rake out coals - moving most to the front - and fill her to the top with wood for long overnight and long off to work burns.

Upon reload, I let it run wide open to charcoal the wood for 15 minutes or so. Then I shut the air down to just a smidge above fully closed. But when it comes time to shut the air down, sometimes the stovetop temps are around 300.

So that is my question. Does the wood need to be chared AND stovetop temps need to be 600, or is it ok to cut the air back with lower temps???? Will EBT work if the stove didnt get hot initally??? I also noticed some people saying they shut air fully closed. Again, is that after charing or waiting till 600 or so??

If I waited for the temps to get to 600.... 1) I would have burned up my fresh reload of wood, and 2) I would be waiting a long time

fyi - I use mostly white ash. The wood is dry. I use a Extech moisture meter showing under 20%. No hisses. Wood burns right away. I have good draft. I installed a block off plate. I user an IR for stovetop temps on the inner chamber under the top grate.

Thanks all very much!! - just looking for best method tips from some more experienced users.

 

[gasavage]

Don't have the T6, but the T5, so they should start off the same. On a reload I cannot leave the air control wide open very long. The flue temps will shoot above 1000 quickly (probe thermometer in double wall). That's with only 300 - 350 stove top temp. I'm having to use my flue temps as a guide to when I should start shutting the air down. When the flue temp hits @ 500 I'm throttling down to at least 1/2. Once I start throttling the air down the stove temps start to rise. Within 15 minutes I'm down to 1/8 - fully closed, with stove top at 500 and stack temps falling back down to my comfort range. I'm Still learning the nuances of the PE stoves too, my prior stove had a cat.

 

[bbc557ci]

I am by no means an expert but have been burning my T6 for about a year now. That said.... When I do a full load, I let the stove pipe get to about 600* and let it stay there for a while (wood WELL charred) before shutting the air down. How long it takes to get the pipe to 600* depends on how much wood I load, the type/size of the spits, and temp outside. Thermo on the top of the stove is generally between 450* and 600* when I shut down the air supply. I never really timed it but I'd guess start up to air shut down takes 20-25 minutes. Again, depending on that previously mentioned.

Lately, when I have time, I've been experamenting with the air supply a little. Letting the pipe temp get to around 600*, then shutting the air supply down in stages. I'm careful doing that though. I like a hot burn for a while to make sure the chimney (12 ft. black pipe + 10 ft. SS) gets good and warm/hot for a while, thinking that might burn off creo that may have started to build up.

btw.. I've checked my EBT when the stove is cold, and it's not open. I don't think it's werk'n :-S

 

[Hogwildz]

EBT is for when stove is up to temp, then EBT opens and closes to help promote a steady even burn at a level temp. Nothing is perfect, but it should work as designed.
Not sure what the temp it is set is, but I am guessing in the 600-650 degree range going merely by my insert front mounted thermo.

An easy way to determine if your cutting the air back too soon:
If you cut it back and secondary burn is going and keeps going for a fairly extended period of time (say longer than 10-15 minutes) your ok. If it kicks in and dies shortly thereafter, your cutting the air back too soon or the wood is too wet.

 

[jwscarab]

Thanks all. But if you cut it back too soon, will the EBT finally open and heat it up, or will it just be a low temp smoldering pile of wood with no air for 10 hours??

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks all. But if you cut it back too soon, will the EBT finally open and heat it up, or will it just be a low temp smoldering pile of wood with no air for 10 hours??

If cut back too soon, it will be a smoldering mess for the next 10 hours.
Your still in the "get to know your stove & burning it habits" stage. For every home each set up, situation, etc is slightly different. Get the general knowledge as you are doing, apply what pertains to your set up and what works best for you, and this time next year, it will be more habit than chore. Try not to confuse yourself with too many worries, questions etc, its good to be concerned, and learn, but don't drive yourself nuts.
Put wood in, see what temp you can cut back the air and continue to have secondary burn. Adjust the cut back amount & time accordingly. I think all stoves have a cruising spot that they will go, its how you adjust the controls that determines how fast or slow they reach that spot, and how long it stays at that spot. This is one thing a season under your belt will teach you.
Now if your not quite up to temp but the wood is prime, good & dry, then it will creep up to temp that it likes to cruise at. But if th wood is by chance wet, or the temp is just a tad too low, its going to be a smoldering mess lining the stack with nasty black stuff.

300 to me seems like a low stove top temp to be cutting air back.
I would suggest trying 400, if thats a no go, then 450, 500 etc.
I think you will find soomewhere between 400-500 is a great spot to cut the air back. My insert I cut the air all the way back at about 450-500 face temp, and then she does the rest.
If the wood is a lil less than desired, then I let her go to 500-500, sometimes 600 in extreme cases, then cut the air back. This is insert face temps keep in mind. Figure the stove top about 100 degrees higher than my face temps.

 

[Ivy Frank]

Cut back whenever you want, is my experience, but my preferred technique is to get it ripping up to about 600 on the top center of the stove, then cut it all the way back. Sure, you've burned a portion of the wood that you wouldn't if you cut it back earlier, but the net heat into the room is the same. The only logic I can see for cutting it back early would be if you needed to have a super long burn time.

The EBT will work fine regardless - it simply closes down the air supply as the fire cools, extending burn time.

 

[snowtime]

Well my experience is a little different. I do have the strong draft due to colder temps. That being said it all depends on heat needed. If I need lots of heat I will let it go to 500 and then close it down but you have to remember its then going to peg the temp gage on the stove top. I consistently get 800 and better. If I want to keep the temp down a little I do not look at the gage I just let the front logs get slightly chard and then shut it all the way down. I never have a fire smolder or go out.
I noticed on another thread you stated that you were not getting the temps that you wanted. Is this still true? If so then run that puppy up to the 800 mark. If you are getting enough heat then I think you are doing just fine . Every load is different and size of splits has a big effect.

 

[jwscarab]

Thanks Guys! The more input from more members the better on this thread I think!! This is great input!! I am learning this stove now - and pretty excited to be burning! Sounds like I may need to let her rip a while longer before I shut the air down.

As for the EBT, I am not worried about it shutting down and the fire getting too cool...... My guess is once the EBT opens - this will provide enough air to get the stove to good hot temps and hold it. I have had 675 with air fully closed so I know my EBT is working.

I am more concerned that I dont let it get hot enough, and the EBT never even starts to open up initialy if the stove didnt get hot enough initialy. I can imagine if I let it char for 15 minutes, then shut it down at 300-350, that maybe the temps never even got hot enough for the EBT to open at all and start to do its thing. Then I smolder for 10 hours while I am at work. These are just my thoughts from everybodys input and my experience so far.

I agree with hogz not to overanalyize - but I cant help myself.....lol. I think I may do a test. I am going to load er up with a fresh load of wood on coals and open air up. Then I will watch stove top temps and timeframe, and I will look with a flashlight and see when the EBT starts to open. This may provide me with better data to understand my startup procedure.

As for temps experience - I have not seen 800 yet. Cant get it there I imagine unless I keep air 30% open and let it run like that to see 800. Then my logs are gone in just a few hours. I think that has to do with me burning white ash. It was free but I think I will have better luck with some oak and hickory.

Thanks again and if more people have input - awesome! I'm always up for learning and I am definitly in my learning curve with this stove!!

 

[bbc557ci]

[quote author="Hogwildz" date="1231363264"]EBT is for when stove is up to temp, then EBT opens and closes to help promote a steady even burn at a level temp. Nothing is perfect, but it should work as designed.
Not sure what the temp it is set is, but I am guessing in the 600-650 degree range going merely by my insert front mounted thermo.
quote]

Ah ha.... I thought the EBT opened when the fire box began to cool down, to let more air in, to keep the coals going. Well silly me %-P

Thanks, Hogwild!!

 

[begreen]

I find that if I don't get the stove up to temp (at least over 400) and shut it down too early that it smolders. If I go outside I see visible smoke from the chimney. My goal is no smoke and with a hot fire there isn't any. You might try adding the new load of wood on a bit more substantial coal bed. When it's cold outside I don't let the stove get below 400 (stovetop). A fresh wood load is blazing within minutes and can be shut down in stages from that point. Usually I'll run it at about 50% for another 5-15 minutes and then shut it all the way closed. The stove top temp climbs to 700-750 and the flue temp settles down to around 400-450.

 

[jwscarab]

Interesting think happened! Last night I put 4 logs in on a good bed of coals. Let the air run wide open. Stove temps got to 600. I adjusted the air between full open and 1/2 trying to get the most heat and flames and secondaries going. Got the stove temps to almost 700!!

Now check this out. All the time I was doing this - which was a full 2 hour timeframe - I had the ash drawer removed and I was watching the EBT inlet hole. It never once opened up Has anybody else tried to verify if theirs works???

 

[begreen]

That's more like it. It'll work even better with a full load of wood. How were the house temps?

As for the EBT, it sounds like the stove didn't need additional air yet. The EBT should open as the stove cools down so that it doesn't end up with a bed of unburnt coals. The time to watch it is later on when the fire and stove start cooing down from 600-700 temps.

PS: How's the leg?

 

[jwscarab]

I'm confused then because if I read the diagram correctly on Toms website about EBT, as the stove heats up the EBT coil will rotate and push the EBT open and then closed again as it rotates into the high temps range. Then once it starts to cool down, it will reverse rotate causing it to open again as the temps decrease. Therefor you should see the EBT open and close as it heats up!! And if it doesnt do that, it wont open as it cools down. Mine didnt open on the way up, and I always do end up with a huge bed of coals now that you mention it - I just thought it was the nature of it!!

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm

As for the house temps, yea it was putting of great heat! I had to go to bed...lol so I am not sure how warm it got. I did wake up to more paint smell so it must have reached a new high - air was down tho so I didnt check it. But I could tell I was doing a much better performance thanks to your guys help! I think I have a few details to button up like an oak kit and maybe a floor vent above the stove. I think my house temps will be fine once I get these things done and get the stove hotter.

One issue I have is I load it for overnight. and then I load it in the morning as I have to go to work - with nobody there for reloads. So I am doing a lot of long burns. Would be better to reload more often and run hotter but now I will at least get it hotter before I leave for work and shut the air down. I'll have fun trying it this weekend!

The leg. I am at 75% weight on it now - will be 100% weight and off crutches on Jan 14th! I can wait! Next xrays on 1/26. I have wood split and on a trailer in the driveway and my fiance is kind enough to be bringing in a small wheelbarrow full each evening so I can burn Yesterday I caught her using the moisture meter checking the splits she brought in! She likes the IR too, so I must have found a good gal!!

Thanks again all!

 

[jwscarab]

Ok, another day another try - and I did much better today. I let it rip full open till pipe got to 600 surface temp ans stove top temp got to 550. Then I shut air down 1/2 way - which really is 1/4 way if you look at the hole. I let it run till the stove top (real close to pipe exit) got to 700 and pipe at 550. Then I shut it down and an hour later the stove top is 550. 2 hours later and stove top is still 550 with plenty of secondary burning I guess thats my cruising temps with air fully closed. I assume I give it a little more air and I can cruise at hotter temps.

The interesting thing - EBT still never opened. Per Toms diagram, which is really cool by the way, it should open and close as the temps rise and the arm pushes past the plate, so then it can open as the temps fall when the spring coils back up. His chart makes sence. I think I am learning my stove much better now I know I am operating it better just by reading this stuff.

BUT.......I still dont think my EBT is working. The only way it is working os if it takes hours for the high temps to work their way to the EBT module and get the spring turning and by that time I quit watching........

 

[rg500930]

yes the good old EBT.i watched mine with the same results.the problem is the EBT is under the firebrick and ashes.one thing you never do though is say it doesnt work on this website i tossed mine and put electronic.great stove thought.

 

[karl]

I have the Summit and if I let the stove get too hot before I close the air down, I get massive heat. I mean way too much.

If you shut the air down and the secondaries don't die out in 5 mins or so, then it's hot enough to burn clean. Mine has been rolling gentle secondaries for over an hour now. It I let it get hot then I get roaring secondaries for a long time and have to take my socks off.

They're awsome stoves and easy to use as well.

 

[jwscarab]

Yea rg, I have to admit I am thinking about what to do with the EBT. I am not saying I am a stove expert, but I do do mechanical design work for a living - and once the light bulb turned in my head two days ago, I now realize what the EBT needs to do and how it works. I LOVE this stove dont get me wrong!! I'd buy another one tomorrow And I think it EBT is a brilliant idea in theory!!

All that said - if the spring coil (I assume it is a spring coil like a thermometer) is not turning, the EBT is not working. Worse yet if it is turning but takes too long a time to start turning, the EBT is working - but at the wrong times!! So lets say it takes 2 hours for the heat to transfer to the EBT and get it turning. By this time, the stove top is already hot hot, the EBT now opens up and the stove overfires from too much combustion air. If the EBT spring does not go past the flapper - it may stay open and burn the load!! On the way back down when the stove starts to cool off, it closes too soon cutting off the air before it has a chance to burn off the coals.

So I think the spring has to be in neutral at the correct place (12 o'clock?) to start with and turn rather soon with minimal heat, which mine is not doing. I also considered taking the EBT off and putting it in the oven to verify its turning and when. When I use my IR thermometer on the EBT housing - its never over 200 even after long burn times.

I can live without the extra blast of air to get rid of the coals at the tail end of the cycle. This stove has AWESOME long burn times as it is! But what I dont want is the extra blast of air 3 hours into the cycle and overfiring the stove. I am not saying it is doing this, but I am going to find out! If I catch the EBT open mid cycle, it may have to get shut permanently.

Am I crazy?? If so - fire back and let me have it!! I am not knocking in any way this stove I still give this stove a 10+! I love this stove!!

 

[rg500930]

so have you been watching the flap on the EBT some more lol.i watched mine for a while.the i took the ebt off and tried adjusting the spring.took the fiberglass type gasket off so he heat would transfer to the EBT better.i gave up.the thing is i figure is if you have more ashes one day the heat won't transfer as much.same as if you have for fan on or if you have a outside cold air intake.all these will change on how the EBT works because its at the bottom of the stove.and incase you didnt know.the EBT is the air intake just inside bottom of the door.the inlet hole is about the size of your baby finger.the draft that you control is the airwash.and the intake for the secondaries is at the back under neath the stove.(its not regulated)that intake is quite abit bigger then the ETB.i had my EBT plugged up until i put the electronic one on.the stock EBT doesnt really do anything.how would extra air give you longer burning anyways.also since your not getting extra air from the EBT you can open the draft more and get more window air wash.