Alderlea T5 or Super 27?

[coleogyne]

Hi Woodburners,

I'm shopping for a new wood stove and am really glad I found this forum. I've just spent the last hour or so reading other posts and I'm feeling pretty good that I'm in the right place to ask this question, which is:

Should I get a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 or a Super 27?

The Alderlea is about $370.00 more expensive than the Super 27, I think because it has a cast iron outer layer and a nifty cook top system. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth the extra cost. In my research (three whole hours so far) I have read that 1. There is no difference in performance between steel and cast iron; 2. Steel heats up faster and hotter, and cast iron modulates the heat and holds it longer.

Is the idea behind the two-layer Aldertea to heat up the stove fast with the steel layer, and then keep the heat modulated, and for a longer time, with the cast iron? If so, is this dual-materials system a tremendous advantage or just kinda nice?

And has anyone actually used the Aldertea's cook top system? I'm intrigued by it, because I like to cook and think it would be very cool to save energy by cooking on the woodstove since I'm going to have a fire going anyway. But I wonder why you couldn't just throw a trivet on top of the Super 27 and get the same effect? My Unimpeachable Source thinks the cook top thing is a little gimmicky. But maybe he's not a cook.

Neither of these stoves comes with EBT. Now I'm wondering if I should be feeling EBT envy, or if it's only relevant for bigger stoves with larger heat-generating capability, and I don't really need it for my 2000 sq.ft. house where winter temperatures only get down to maybe 0 degrees for a few days at the coldest part of the winter. (Don't scoff - I put in plenty of time at -40 before I moved here).

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Newbie

 

[BrotherBart]

BeGreen will be along to tell you actual experiences with burning a T series PE stove but I can tell you that cooking on a woodstove ain't all you think it will be. Think about waiting, oh I don't know until you want your house to be cold, to clean up the spill over stinking smoking mess off of the stove.

Did that a few times and got right over it. The propane camp stove now does a great job in power outages.

 

[begreen]

We didn't get the Alderlea for cooking. Nice feature, but we have a propane fed cooktop that covers our needs. I agree with BB. You want to be really careful cooking on a stove and know what you're doing or you may have some nasty messes to clean up. The Alderlea does allow a higher degree of temperature placement which is critical for cooking, but I can see it taking a lot of trial an error to get it right. No doubt it will be nice for bread rising and drying out wet mittens. I have yet to burn a complete season with the stove and am definitely still learning about it, but so far it is really a delight.

Having come from a fine cast iron stove prior to owning the Alderlea I can say for certain that the large mass of cast iron on the Alderlea is a different beast than the solid cast iron Jotul F400 we had running previously. The castiron jacket acts like a buffer to the steel stove heart. The net result is more like a soapstone stove. It takes time to heat up the mass and tends to generate a gentle heat that continues for quite awhile after the fire goes out.

Is it worth the cast iron jacket? Well that depends. Our next door neighbor has the Spectrum 27 and is really pleased with it. It's an excellent heater and gives them nice long burns. But now I'm hearing Alderlea envy from him, so you be the judge.

 

[hilly]

In one of Tom's (The Chimney Sweep guy) posts he explained that PE developed the EBT technology for the summit (large) wood stoves to match the burn times the spectrum (medium) wood stoves.

 

[Todd]

If it were me, I'd pay the extra and get the T-5 cause I like the looks better and I know it will pay for itself anyways.

 

[Highbeam]

Your two items:

"1. There is no difference in performance between steel and cast iron; 2. Steel heats up faster and hotter, and cast iron modulates the heat and holds it longer. "

Pound for pound this is true but you will typically find that a cast iron part of a stove is much thicker and heavier than a duplicate made of steel. More lbs of cast iron provide a thermal mass that will as you say modulate and hold it in longer.

Isn't the Alderlea version heavier? Heavier stove with the same firebox means more iron and thermal mass which I find superior in a woodstove for the sake of smoothing out the temperature spikes.

2000 SF I would be getting the T6 or summit though and not the smaller box. Oh yes, and on a personal taste note, I like the cast iron alderlea series better and would gladly pay 3-4 hundred more. You will be staring at this stove for a long time and looks matter.

 

[coleogyne]

Thanks so much for the replies, guys. Although it seems like I couldn't go wrong with either pick, the general consensus seems to be the Alderlea line. Other forums I've read say the same thing...everyone just LOVES this stove. It's like how Apple computer users gush about their Macs - you just don't get that level of fanaticism from the PC users.

Thanks for the help, and the entertainment. I'm sure I'll be back to this forum.

Still A Newbie

 

[termv]

As far as weight, I have a T5 sitting in the garage still on the pallet which states 515 pounds. Can't wait to get it burning.

 

[slmorrison]

Hi,

I'm very happy to have found this forum - and this thread - as I have the same question. We are tearing down our old cottage and building a new one on Snake Island, Lake Simcoe (an hour north of Toronto, ON) and are having trouble deciding between the PE Alderlea T5 and the Super 27. I'd really appreciate any and all input. I'm curious about people's experience with the T5 now that they've had a couple of heating seasons under their belts.

We use the cottage primarily weekends from April to October. But our new cottage will be insulated so we are looking forward to spending a half dozens winter weekends up there (since we are on an island, there is a 3-4 week period when the ice comes in and out that we don't have access). Winter weekends can be very cold (-30 C with high winds - summers are hot 35 C) and I read that the Super 27 heats up quickly and burns longer, which is a big advantage for us in the winter since we will be coming up on a Friday night or Saturday morning to an unheated (freezing) cottage and will be keen to crank it and get warm. Also like the fact that we wouldn't have to get up in the middle of the night to (re)build the fire. I like the looks of the Alderlea a bit better (the wood stove will be a focal point of the great room) and appreciate the moderate heat that ppl have commented on. So my questions are: 1) will the cast iron jacket of the Alderlea mean that it will take longer to heat up? If so, how much longer (i.e. so much longer that we wouldn't want to go up on a Friday night)? 2) will the drastic fluctuation of temperature and humidity be a problem for either wood stove (particularly the cast iron jacket of the T5 which I think is cemented together rather than welded together like the Super 27)?

Square footage of the main floor is 1050 and 2nd floor is 565 (only master bedroom, bathroom, storage and small sitting area on 2nd floor). Main floor (open concept living/dining/kitchen, 2 bedrooms and a mudroom) has vaulted/cathedral ceilings to 21 ft at peak (we plan to install ceiling fans). Wood stove will be the primary source of heat for entire cottage, although I expect we will have to supplement with baseboards or electric heaters in the bedrooms/bathrooms in winter and cold spring/fall nights.

Lots of fellow cottagers have a standard PE model (I think the Super series) and love it - so I'm confident that it fits the bill. I don't know anyone with an Alderlea. Cost is fairly comparable (Super 27 only a bit cheaper after the upgrades - brushed nickel legs and doors) so price is not a persuading factor. Bottom line is I like the looks of the Alderlea T5 so if it performs as well as the Super 27 in our situation, then I'd go with it. Your thoughts??

Thanks in advance for your replies, I really appreciate your time.

 

[begreen]

Given the usage I would lean towards the Spectrum or a Super 27. The Alderlea stoves do take longer to bring the mass of cast iron up to temperature. Our T6 will be hot (500°F stovetop) in 30min, but it will take another 15-30 minutes before it is fully warmed up and the stovetop is at 650-700°F.

What are the code requirements for insulation and windows? If the cottage is very well insulated and sealed then the 2 cu ft model should be ok. But if the construction is just average, with the added interior volume of the cathedral ceiling, I would consider getting a Summit with blower for quicker warmups. A ceiling fan will also be necessary to break up heat stratification at the peak of the ceiling.

 

[madison]

coleogyne,

If you have the physical hearth space a cpl extra $$, I would suggest sizing up to the T6/Summit. Even if you think you don't need the BTU's the ability to get longer burns with the increased capacity is well worth the extra $$. Wood loading patterns are also more flexible with the larger units. The T5 you will pretty much need to load N/S unless you have some short fuel to load E/W. Plus the reserve BTU's will be there when you need it.

Regarding cooking, BB/BG nailed it, I also like to cook, and the only cooking after yr 1 with our T6 saucepan simmering on the stove top, and bake potatoes inside the stove. Otherwise, it is great for keeping larger meals warm while finishing stuff off on your conventional stove, ie thanksgiving stuffing, mash po's etc etc etc. No matter how careful, the cookware will scratch and lead to potential rust. And spills, are really a pain, cleaning/ wiping a 600 degree steel or cast plate is not fun.

I would suggest submitting your floor plan and a better description of your home, and you will get some better suggestions regarding convective heat vs radiant and its suitability within your living area...

 

[gasavage]

Hi,

2) will the drastic fluctuation of temperature and humidity be a problem for either wood stove (particularly the cast iron jacket of the T5 which I think is cemented together rather than welded together like the Super 27)?

There won't be any issues with cement on the cast jacket. There isn't any. PE took the Super 27 steel box & hung some molded cast iron on on sides....literally. Only 3 bolts hold each side on, and 2 hold the top. I removed the door sides & top to make loading/unloading easier(taught the dealer something there). The major difference I see is the door assembly.

I've had my T5 for two seasons now & really like it. I'm heating @1440 sqft ,on top of a basement, in Indiana. No problem keeping the house in the 70's

With a proper chimney & seasoned dry wood, this stove is an outstanding heater. Great flame show to boot.

 

[slmorrison]

Thank you very much for your replies - I appreciate the input. You've steered me away from the alderlea series given our usage - and the need to heat it up quickly. The porcelain finish of the spectrum is a great option - I love the look. The cottage will be well insulated so I (with the dealer's input) don't think the summit is necessary despite the cathedral ceilings. Total sq ft is 1600 - spectrum says good for 2000 and summit 3000. We will have ceiling fans and option to close doors to bedrooms and heat those with baseboards. Upgrading to a spectrum is about all the budget can handle.... I can't successfully attach the floor plan file (?) but cottage is 1050 sq ft on mainfloor, open concept except for 2 bedrroms and mudroom, with 500 sq ft loft on 2nd floor, and open tomain floor (cathedral ceilings) over the open concept mainfloor. Given that, is the view still that a larger model like the summit is necessary?

Thanks again,
Shannon

 

[begreen]

The square footage ratings are more of a marketing tool than a reasonable guideline. There are too many climate, house design, ceiling height, insulation, stove location variables for it to mean much more than a very rough rule of thumb. The btu output is a better guide. How large a stove you will need will depend on how large the interior volume of the house is, the interior temp and how quickly you want to bring it up to temp with the wood stove. A bigger firebox is going to put out more btus once the stove is warmed up. In the case of the PE line, the 2 cu ft stove can put out up to 73,000btus with good, dry wood. The 3 cu ft Summit can put out up to 97,000 btus.

It will be easier to decide if you know what ambient temperature you will be keeping the cabin at when it is unoccupied. For example, if the place is 40 degrees and you want to bring it up quickly (say in 3 hrs) to 65 or 70 degrees, and without supplemental heat, you may want a big stove for it's increased btu output. If you want to bring the place up from a nominal 55 °F to 70 and you are willing to crank up all heating systems, supplemented by the stove, then a smaller stove will do the job and it may take only an hour to warm the place up. However, it's -10 °F outside, blowing up a gale and you want to increase the interior temp by 30 °F, it's going to take several hours, even with a big stove. This is because when the house is cold, it is not just the air in the house that has to be warmed up, but its entire mass, including walls, cabinets, furniture, beds, etc.

 

[slmorrison]

So just to confirm then, no concerns with the porcelain casing of the Spectrum/Summit and the drastic fluctuation in temperature? I.e. it won't slow down the warm up or (even worse) crack?

 

[dougstove]

I have the plainest black metal PE Super 27.
It heats up quickly and once a bed of coals is built up it burns well overnight.
It is the primary heat for a reasonably insulated 1900 sq. ft. long ranch style house, with ample capacity; my climate is cold but not extreme (a few nights of -30C most winters; most nights no colder than -20C).
The only reason I would go for a bigger fire box is to take longer lengths of wood, the super 27 barely takes 18".

 

[begreen]

So just to confirm then, no concerns with the porcelain casing of the Spectrum/Summit and the drastic fluctuation in temperature? I.e. it won't slow down the warm up or (even worse) crack?

No, no more concern than you would have for this happening on your oven.