Alleged fraud at US Stove Company

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.

John Ackerly

Burning Hunk
The biggest alleged case of fraud in the stove industry in recent decades is unfolding now and US Stove has taken off the gloves and is aggressively going after the whistleblower, a former employee. The company just got a Temporary Restraining Order against the whistleblower and he is now having to shell out a lot of money to defend himself, even though he was trying to act in the public interest. If anyone on this list bought a US Stove 1269E in 2020, you may have bought the 2015 compliant version, that was advertised and labelled as 2020 compliant. If anyone has any other info, I'd love to hear it - privately or on this thread.
 
John Ackerly It's unfortunate that they didn't give the 2020 model a different model name. That really adds to market confusion. How does the user detect the difference? Is there a way for users to determine what they have? What specific changes were made to this model in order to pass the 2020 EPA requirements? Is there a serial number cut-off for the pre-2020 models?
 
Last edited:
John Ackerly It's unfortunate that they didn't give the 2020 model a different model name. That really adds to market confusion. How does the user detect the difference? Is there a way for users to determine what they have? What specific changes were made to this model in order to pass the 2020 EPA requirements? Is there a serial number cut-off for the pre-2020 models?
All good questions, and I don't have definitive answers to them. The 2020 compliant one is "US 1269E" and the 2015 compliant one was just "1269E". One guy who called us said the stove was being sold as 2020 compliant, but the permanent EPA plate on the back of the stove indicated it was only 2015 compliant. So, if someone has sales documentation that doesn't match up with the plate on the back of the stove, they are at least probably entitled to a refund, if they want one. Tractor Supply is supposedly not cooperating and may be hoping the investigation doesn't go anywhere so that they are not implicated. John
 
Well, I have no interest in buying anything made by USS anyways, but just as with the crap that HY-C has pulled with getting their junk wood furnace 2020 "certified", I will take any chance I get in the future to warn people on this forum, and others, about what these manufacturers have done to make an extra buck selling junk, instead of doing the right thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vg3200p
I got a good deal on my Osburn in 2019 as a "pre 2020 standards" deal to move inventory. I didn't know about the new tax credit at the time (and honestly none of the compliant stuff that qualifies would have fit anyways but let's ignore that for the sake of the discussion lol) but I'm kind of glad I didn't get a new 2020 stove. It seems that a lot of manufacturers just messed with the settings...not in a good way...to pass the 2020 requirements rather than make a better product and that's really crappy. I'll take my weenie $300 credit and we'll built stove! Makes you worry about the future though.

Yes I realize this is a big generalization but it's just the vibe I get browsing the forums. My "too dirty to sell" stove is 4 gm/hr. Filthy! The new one at 2 gm/hr I'm sure is loaded with better tech to meet those standards :rolleyes:.

297.jpg
 
I got a good deal on my Osburn in 2019 as a "pre 2020 standards" deal to move inventory. I didn't know about the new tax credit at the time (and honestly none of the compliant stuff that qualifies would have fit anyways but let's ignore that for the sake of the discussion lol) but I'm kind of glad I didn't get a new 2020 stove. It seems that a lot of manufacturers just messed with the settings...not in a good way...to pass the 2020 requirements rather than make a better product and that's really crappy. I'll take my weenie $300 credit and we'll built stove! Makes you worry about the future though.

Yes I realize this is a big generalization but it's just the vibe I get browsing the forums. My "too dirty to sell" stove is 4 gm/hr. Filthy! The new one at 2 gm/hr I'm sure is loaded with better tech to meet those standards :rolleyes:.

View attachment 277891
Some did make some questionable changes. But others started way ahead of time and actually have well engineered stoves that have been out for a while
 
  • Like
Reactions: Caw
Innocent companies don't need restraining orders to protect their name, showing factual evidence contrary to this whistle blower would have ended this. Unless that evidence doesn't exist. In which case the restraining order buys the accused time to get their stories straight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Ackerly
It's just dealers, being "dealers". As someone who has semi-retired from sales, that stuff pisses me off!

It's an "advertising error"!

I just spent months buying a real "car" (not a crossover or SUV). Most of the manufacturers don't make "cars" anymore, so I was limited to old stock, and slightly used for what I wanted. Dealers in this region don't have any "cars", because nobody here buys a "car", so they don't order many, and don't have any left. Most automakers don't make "cars" anymore. So, you hit the net, and prepare for a road trip. I made a bunch of inquiries, and came down to bags packed - ready to pick it up, on four different 700+ mile trips, but with one rule. I had to have a deal in hand before I turned a wheel. After dealer delaying, four deals blew up as I was waiting for the contract pdf at the last minute, with my stuff ready to be thrown in the trunk, Why? Turns out the cars they were advertising weren't what they were advertising. The cars advertised with 50 miles actually had 3.000+ miles, or, the price included some imagined combination of incentives that I didn't qualify for, or, my favorite car, somehow went from about 24,000 to 33,000 between the ad and the contract. I never did get any explanation on that one. They too keep sending me auto-generated emails asking what it will take to sell me a vehicle, though. And that's just the top 3 lies!

If the manufacturer gives a dealer a similar model # for a new version, they're going to advertise and sell the thing whichever way. That may be because they're trying to get over on you, or as seems to be more and more common, they either don't know the difference, or their marketing and/or sales is semi conscious and doesn't care. Sometimes the manufacturers themselves will participate in this in their dealings.

For a small example, I ordered a chimney brush lately from a reseller for a major NW manufacturer (ok - I'm sure they make them in China, but it's their brand). They recently changed the product from a 3" pancake brush to a 7" long version. Same part #. Insanity! Reseller pictures and all the pictures on the web - old style: Order it - get new style, which won't work for me. Ask "manufacturer" why they would sell a totally different brush under the same part # and get no real answer. Advise semi-conscious reseller of problem, and months later, their picture is still the same.

It's just the way of the world, and true, the internet has made buying some things better, but some either don't care, or actively use it to obfuscate. Buyer beware - in a world where things are so complex, it would take a committee from the manufacturer to even understand many products. And, then, throw some mislabeled stuff into the mix just for fun!

As a distributor/salesman who always thought my main purpose was to wade through the details for my customers, if they're guilty, I hope they fry 'em! And I consider myself a libertarian, (small "L")..

Rant off! But thanks for listening!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mcdougy
Innocent companies don't need restraining orders to protect their name, showing factual evidence contrary to this whistle blower would have ended this. Unless that evidence doesn't exist. In which case the restraining order buys the accused time to get their stories straight.
I'm surprised no one has sued them for the false implications of the company name. It reminds me of the time long ago when there was some cheap stuff labeled "Made in USA" that was coming from Usa, Japan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Caw and bholler
I am most shocked by the fact there was a demand for over 4100 of those piece of crap stoves.