Alternate suggestion instead of angled insert

[Dandawson]

I have an old "slammer" style unit that I wanted to replace with a new insert. I was planning on the smaller Osburn Matrix due to meeting the tax credit, non catalytic, aestetics and size but our local sweep just informed me I should buy an Insert with an angled liner outlet. He Said he hasn't seen a build like this in 35 years. I believe he was saying the flue is recessed deeper in the fireplace than normal. He was saying the liner exit on the insert would be too far forward and would not be far enough back for the liner. I am thinking about getting a second opinion. I'll post a few pictures. Any thoughts?

 

[Dandawson]

I have an old "slammer" style unit that I wanted to replace with a new insert. I was planning on the smaller Osburn Matrix due to meeting the tax credit, non catalytic, aestetics and size but our local sweep just informed me I should buy an Insert with an angled liner outlet. He Said he hasn't seen a build like this in 35 years. I believe he was saying the flue is recessed deeper in the fireplace than normal. He was saying the liner exit on the insert would be too far forward and would not be far enough back for the liner. I am thinking about getting a second opinion. I'll post a few pictures. Any thoughts?

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[stoveliker]

There are angled connectors but I'm not sure if that's enough.

You do need additional non-combustible hearth in front of it for safety.

 

[Dandawson]

There are angled connectors but I'm not sure if that's enough.

You do need additional non-combustible hearth in front of it for safety.

Yeah, we haven't decided on what we will be using for the hearth yet but does need done as well. Previous owners had used a removable hearth.

 

[stoveliker]

Some folks have a metal plate, painted in the same color as the stove. You can remove it in the off-season. But there are other options too.

 

[begreen]

Are there lower intake vents on the sides of this fireplace? Does it have firebrick or metal walls?

 

[Dandawson]

Yes, there are two other vents. One on each side. It is an old heatform/heatilator style fireplace. I can attach a picture of the tubes along the back of the unit.

Are there lower intake vents on the sides of this fireplace? Does it have firebrick or metal walls?

 

[begreen]

I'm surprised the installer hasn't seen this before. They're not that uncommon. It may take an angle grinder or sawzall to cut metal to clear the way for the liner.

 

[Dandawson]

I'm surprised the installer hasn't seen this before. They're not that uncommon. It may take an angle grinder or sawzall to cut metal to clear the way for the liner.

The installer said he has worked on alot of units like this in the past. He was saying he hasn't seen anything like this as in how far back it is in the wall and that I would need an insert with an angled exit to accommodate for this. The last picture I posted shows how far back the heat tubes are in relation to the front of the fireplace. Does that look excessively deep too any of you? I would like to be able to use the Osburn Matrix for several reasons and know we'll have limited options going to a unit with an angled back to it. I appreciate everyones feedback as I am fairly green with fireplace construction.

 

[begreen]

I am assuming that the tubes are part of the convection system and not the flue system, but maybe that is incorrect. If they are part of the convection system then the location of the heat tubes is not important unless they are in the way. What is important is the depth to the center of the chimney flue. What is that? If you look straight up about 10" in front of these tube holes, is there a damper or is daylight visible above?

 

[Dandawson]

I am assuming that the tubes are part of the convection system and not the flue system, but maybe that is incorrect. If they are part of the convection system then the location of the heat tubes is not important unless they are in the way. What is important is the depth to the center of the chimney flue. What is that? If you look straight up about 10" in front of these tube holes, is there a damper or is daylight visible above?

I'm unable to look right now as this is two hours from where I live full time. You are correct in that these tubes are part if the convection. He was saying the flue would be behind the tubes. I took a measurement from the tube to the front of the fireplace and came up with roughly 20".

 

[begreen]

The picture probably confused me. Is the picture of the tube holes taken inside of the fireplace opening or was the upper grate removed and then the picture taken? If the latter, then I understand the concern better. To know what would work and whether there is room for a 45º elbow on the insert, the fireplace height at the back is needed. Actually, the full fireplace interior dimensions would help a lot.

There used to be a few inserts that had a sloped back that would accomodate this need. Now most flue collars are straight up. The exception might be with Hearthstones. I recall the Clydesdale having this sloped back and angled flue collar. The Quadrafire Expedition II also does and they sell a 15º adapter to increase the angle.

 

[Dandawson]

Ok I think I understand. But to answer your question, yes it is a picture from the grate that is above the fireplace opening. I don't have the dimensions on me. I suppose if there is a height restriction that may be why he said to use an insert with an angled back as the liner would be coming out from a lower position in the fireplace.

 

[begreen]

OK, I'm with you now. See above suggestions for the two inserts.

 

[EbS-P]

BK princess has an angled outlet. Cat stove. Without actual dimensions we are just guessing what might work

 

[30WCF]

I wonder if a couple courses of brick to extend the pad (for support) (would still need ember protection on the floor as well) would open up a lot of options and allow a rear vent?

 

[begreen]

BK princess has an angled outlet. Cat stove. Without actual dimensions we are just guessing what might work

Yes, thanks! It's at a 30º angle.

 

[Dandawson]

Here is the inspection. 37x28 are the dimensions. The depth is not accounted for on the inspection. I have spoke with the installer again and decided the best course of action is to meet again next week and pull the current insert out and verify what can be done. Just figured I'd update this thread for anyone that may come across the same issue in the future.

 

[Dandawson]

 

[Dandawson]

Here is a picture of the current insert pulled back for inspection. I figured id keep this updated as I go along in case it helps anyone else in the future.

 

[stoveliker]

Wow, that's deep indeed

 

[EbS-P]

I’m not saying it’s a good stove but the MF nova I believe has a rear outlet.

 

[Dandawson]

I thought i might update this thread in case it helps anyone else that comes across it. We ended up ordering the Osburn Matrix from our local dealer and had or local sweep install it. I believe he used a 30° angle and 316 stainless insulated liner. It appeared to be quite a bit more involved than I initially thought but turned out very nice. I have a bit of touch up on the bric and now need to work on a hearth. Haven't done an initial burn yet but don't anticipate any issues.