Slammer Replacement Advice

[dre]

Hello all, just purchased a home with a wood burning fireplace in the living room. After having it swept/inspected (level 1) I come to find out that the stove is a slammer install. I had never heard that term before so after reading as many slammer threads on this website as I could find, I'm all caught up on what they are and how dangerous they are. The inspection found spauling flue tiles and missing mortar in joints. So, we can't use the stove. Which absolutely sucks because I love the look of the stove and it works great. I had to burn fires for a few weeks after the initial inspection attempt due to so much creosote build-up, they couldn't break it up enough. I had to spray the wood and firebox/stove outlet with a solution to help break down the creosote and burn fires. Anyways, I received a quote to fix from the same place that inspected the chimney and I have some questions that I'm hoping ya'll could shed some light on.

First, a little more information:
- Derco Grizzly Wood Stove
- FPI-2
- 6/5/1981
- Flue Length - 12' (straight shot and taken from inspection report)
- Flue Size - 16" x 12" (taken from inspection report)

Question 1 - Both options for stove replacement include removing the existing terra cotta flue tiles. My question is, would this be necessary if they are going to be putting in a pre-insulated 6" SS chimney liner? When I was up on the roof (flat roof) with the chimney sweep and he was showing me the missing mortar on the camera, he didn't say that flue tiles were in that bad of shape that they would need to come out. And if the flue size is 16" x 12" I can't see why they would need to be removed to accommodate the new pre-insulated flue liner.

Questions 2 - Both options for stove replacement are for a wood-burning insert. But with three sides of the fireplace being open, an insert isn't going to work right? It would have to be a free-standing wood stove like what is already there?

In my last house I installed a new wood stove/stove pipe/through the wall kit and new chimney pipe in my office so I have some experience with this. But this is a bit different obviously. I would feel comfortable doing this work myself as I have read plenty of threads, watched plenty of videos and consider myself somewhat handy. But I want to make sure I'm being shortsighted here.

As you can see from the pics I don't have access to the damper/inside of chimney because it is blocked off so not sure what is going on in there.

I know that the current stove is old and not efficient, but dang it, I'd love to keep using it. We only use this for "ambiance" and not heating the house. Current stove outlet is 8".

Anyways, any advice would be great and very much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[bholler]

Hello all, just purchased a home with a wood burning fireplace in the living room. After having it swept/inspected (level 1) I come to find out that the stove is a slammer install. I had never heard that term before so after reading as many slammer threads on this website as I could find, I'm all caught up on what they are and how dangerous they are. The inspection found spauling flue tiles and missing mortar in joints. So, we can't use the stove. Which absolutely sucks because I love the look of the stove and it works great. I had to burn fires for a few weeks after the initial inspection attempt due to so much creosote build-up, they couldn't break it up enough. I had to spray the wood and firebox/stove outlet with a solution to help break down the creosote and burn fires. Anyways, I received a quote to fix from the same place that inspected the chimney and I have some questions that I'm hoping ya'll could shed some light on.

First, a little more information:
- Derco Grizzly Wood Stove
- FPI-2
- 6/5/1981
- Flue Length - 12' (straight shot and taken from inspection report)
- Flue Size - 16" x 12" (taken from inspection report)

Question 1 - Both options for stove replacement include removing the existing terra cotta flue tiles. My question is, would this be necessary if they are going to be putting in a pre-insulated 6" SS chimney liner? When I was up on the roof (flat roof) with the chimney sweep and he was showing me the missing mortar on the camera, he didn't say that flue tiles were in that bad of shape that they would need to come out. And if the flue size is 16" x 12" I can't see why they would need to be removed to accommodate the new pre-insulated flue liner.

Questions 2 - Both options for stove replacement are for a wood-burning insert. But with three sides of the fireplace being open, an insert isn't going to work right? It would have to be a free-standing wood stove like what is already there?

In my last house I installed a new wood stove/stove pipe/through the wall kit and new chimney pipe in my office so I have some experience with this. But this is a bit different obviously. I would feel comfortable doing this work myself as I have read plenty of threads, watched plenty of videos and consider myself somewhat handy. But I want to make sure I'm being shortsighted here.

As you can see from the pics I don't have access to the damper/inside of chimney because it is blocked off so not sure what is going on in there.

I know that the current stove is old and not efficient, but dang it, I'd love to keep using it. We only use this for "ambiance" and not heating the house. Current stove outlet is 8".

Anyways, any advice would be great and very much appreciated. Thanks!

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They may be planning on removing the clay because it's so dirty. Many times that is cheaper and easier than cleaning if it's really glazed. Did you ask any of them about installing a liner on your current stove?

 

[dre]

They were able to finally sweep it and get it clean I thought. That is how they were able to finally inspect it with the camera. I mean, they certainly charged me for a sweep. But maybe it is still too dirty? I didn't ask about installing a new liner on the current stove because it seems like that is a big "no no" with a slammer install.

 

[bholler]

They were able to finally sweep it and get it clean I thought. That is how they were able to finally inspect it with the camera. I mean, they certainly charged me for a sweep. But maybe it is still too dirty? I didn't ask about installing a new liner on the current stove because it seems like that is a big "no no" with a slammer install.

Well I would charge you for a sweep if I swept it even if it was too dirty to actually get it clean. And if they install a liner hooked to your stove, it's no longer a slammer

 

[dre]

I completely hear you and wasn't trying to suggest the sweep shouldn't have been paid. I guess my ignorance is showing a bit here with how dirty a chimney can be after a sweep. So, with it being an old stove, with an 8" outlet, would the best option still be to install a 6" insulated SS liner and then reduce from 8" to 6" to direct connect?

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

I seriously doubt a certified professional would dump a 8'' smoke outlet in to a 6'' pipe and chimney. That stove is a old polluting smoke dragon, probably best to replace it with a EPA 2020 approved stove and a quality 6'' pipe and chimney.

 

[bholler]

I completely hear you and wasn't trying to suggest the sweep shouldn't have been paid. I guess my ignorance is showing a bit here with how dirty a chimney can be after a sweep. So, with it being an old stove, with an 8" outlet, would the best option still be to install a 6" insulated SS liner and then reduce from 8" to 6" to direct connect?

No it would need an 8" liner.

And it's very possible for a chimney that had a slammer installed to be uncleanable without the use of chemicals like pcr. And that gets really expensive.

 

[dre]

I seriously doubt a certified professional would dump a 8'' smoke outlet in to a 6'' pipe and chimney. That stove is a old polluting smoke dragon, probably best to replace it with a EPA 2020 approved stove and a quality 6'' pipe and chimney.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking and why I didn't ask yet if they would just install the flue liner without doing the stove too.

 

[dre]

No it would need an 8" liner.

And it's very possible for a chimney that had a slammer installed to be uncleanable without the use of chemicals like pcr. And that gets really expensive.

Ok, gotcha. I was thinking that if the flue liner was 6" it would give me the option to upgrade the stove down the road but I wasn't sure it worked that way.

 

[moresnow]

Ok, gotcha. I was thinking that if the flue liner was 6" it would give me the option to upgrade the stove down the road but I wasn't sure it worked that way.

Soooo? Adding my 2 cents worth. Upgrade! Stove and liner. Many years of happy burning into the future that way. Goodluck.

 

[dre]

I called the chimney sweep company who did the work and gave the quotes yesterday to see if they could connect an 8" pre-insulated SS liner directly to the exising stove. They called back this morning (left VM) and said it wasn't possible to connect a liner to the stove directly as there is "no access" to the stove to do that. Which is why they are recommending replacing the stove.

Please help me understand this. Wouldn't the connection for a new stove be in the same spot as the connection for existing stove? Which would mean access to connect directly to the new stove would still be an issue?

I'm not against upgrading the stove, that isn't the issue. I'm just fully trying to understand the process and the reason for the suggestions. Also, to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of.

EDIT: Ok, I just talked someone on the phone, and the reason they are suggesting removing the terra cotta flue tiles is to "be able to connect the stove to the liner". It isn't because they are too dirty and couldn't be cleaned enough, I asked that specifically. I said, "But if you are installing a 6" insulated liner, let's say that is 8-9" in diameter and the flue is 16"x12", shouldn't there be enough room to run the liner down the flue?". He responded, "but how would we connect the new stove to the liner?" He said, "are you familiar with a slammer?" and I responded "yes, they are typically connected right at the throat of the chimney right?" He said, "yes, they are connected to the clay tiles, so how can we connect the new stove without removing the clay tiles?"

I am so confused right now. haha

 

[bholler]

I called the chimney sweep company who did the work and gave the quotes yesterday to see if they could connect an 8" pre-insulated SS liner directly to the exising stove. They called back this morning (left VM) and said it wasn't possible to connect a liner to the stove directly as there is "no access" to the stove to do that. Which is why they are recommending replacing the stove.

Please help me understand this. Wouldn't the connection for a new stove be in the same spot as the connection for existing stove? Which would mean access to connect directly to the new stove would still be an issue?

I'm not against upgrading the stove, that isn't the issue. I'm just fully trying to understand the process and the reason for the suggestions. Also, to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of.

I am pretty sure they would be able to connect through the inside of your old stove. They just don't want to do it

 

[kborndale]

I don't understand why a new stove could be connected but not that one? Did you ask them what the difference was? If there is no access to this stove, how would a new stove have access and vice versa?

 

[dre]

I am pretty sure they would be able to connect through the inside of your old stove. They just don't want to do it

And I'm ok with that, I honestly am. But now I feel like I'm being somewhat taken advantage of with the removal of all the clay flue tiles that they quoted would cost $2k. That is where I'm now getting stuck.

 

[dre]

I don't understand why a new stove could be connected but not that one? Did you ask them what the difference was? If there is no access to this stove, how would a new stove have access and vice versa?

Yes, I did and he said because of the existing stove being connected "to the clay flue tiles directly". They have to remove all of the existing clay flue tiles and remove the existing stove to put in the new stove and connect the liner. This doesn't make any sense to me and talking to this guy was very frustrating. It is especially weird because they were great during this entire process.

 

[bholler]

And I'm ok with that, I honestly am. But now I feel like I'm being somewhat taken advantage of with the removal of all the clay flue tiles that they quoted would cost $2k. That is where I'm now getting stuck.

Removing the clay should cost 2k. At that they would be able to pcr it cheaper

 

[dre]

Removing the clay should cost 2k. At that they would be able to pcr it cheaper

But there shouldn't be a reason to remove the clay right? They didn't state it presented any fire danger or wasn't structurally sound. They stated it needed to be removed so that the new stove could be connected to the flue liner, which, isn't true.

 

[bholler]

But there shouldn't be a reason to remove the clay right? They didn't state it presented any fire danger or wasn't structurally sound. They stated it needed to be removed so that the new stove could be connected to the flue liner, which, isn't true.

I am not there looking at it so I can't say. But its doubtfully if the tiles really are that large.

 

[dre]

I am not there looking at it so I can't say. But its doubtfully if the tiles really are that large.

I understand and thank you for the help and advice.

 

[mellow]

How tall is the chimney? You mention flat roof so I am guessing around 12-15ft?

Looks like they built a block off plate and dump the exhaust above it? Do you have any pics you could attach that show your chimney from the inspection?

 

[dre]

How tall is the chimney? You mention flat roof so I am guessing around 12-15ft?

Looks like they built a block off plate and dump the exhaust above it? Do you have any pics you could attach that show your chimney from the inspection?

Chimney is 12' according to inspection report.

Yeah, there is, what looks to be a stainless steel block off plate that is riveted in place and I'm guessing the exhaust is dumped above it before the damper. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures from the inspection.

 

[mellow]

In my mind you would rip down that block off plate and pull the old insert out, clean up all the gunk it leaves behind. Drop an insulated 6" liner down, slide the new insert in and connect to the insert (would be tight depending on height of insert). Then build a two piece block off plate above the insert and attach it.

If you can find a shorter freestander you could use that as well, maybe one of MF's novas?

Nova Series

Modern, beautiful wood stoves

mffire.com

 

[dre]

In my mind you would rip down that block off plate and pull the old insert out, clean up all the gunk it leaves behind. Drop an insulated 6" liner down, slide the new insert in and connect to the insert (would be tight depending on height of insert). Then build a two piece block off plate above the insert and attach it.

If you can find a shorter freestander you could use that as well, maybe one of MF's novas?

Nova Series

Modern, beautiful wood stoves

mffire.com

Exactly what I was thinking and why I was thrown for a loop after talking with the gentleman this morning.

 

[mellow]

Most threads on something like this are dead ends, but others have put inserts in something like that.

First inserts going into a two sided (90 degree faces) fireplace - feedback and surround suggestions?

I've been researching like crazy for several weeks on this site but found nothing quite like what I'm working with. Its a masonry fireplace with two open sides (see picture). What suggestions would you have for a surround? Would custom steel surround on the face and on the open side help...

www.hearth.com

What to do? Help me with fireplace.

I have a purchase contract on a home with a fireplace inglenook kind of setup in mid century modern style home. I have a professional coming to inspect the fireplace this week. The chimney is on an outside wall, has an inoperable throat damper and a chimney height of about 10'. Honestly, cursory...

www.hearth.com

 

[dre]

Most threads on something like this are dead ends, but others have put inserts in something like that.

First inserts going into a two sided (90 degree faces) fireplace - feedback and surround suggestions?

I've been researching like crazy for several weeks on this site but found nothing quite like what I'm working with. Its a masonry fireplace with two open sides (see picture). What suggestions would you have for a surround? Would custom steel surround on the face and on the open side help...

www.hearth.com

What to do? Help me with fireplace.

I have a purchase contract on a home with a fireplace inglenook kind of setup in mid century modern style home. I have a professional coming to inspect the fireplace this week. The chimney is on an outside wall, has an inoperable throat damper and a chimney height of about 10'. Honestly, cursory...

www.hearth.com

Thanks for those links! Also, the Nova is a great looking stove. I was also looking at the Buck Model 91. That is a big boy and I thought the three windows would look great with the three open sides of the current fireplace.