Am I asking for too much?

[Justinmichael]

Hey everyone, I've been reading in these forums for a few months now, trying different burning methods in my old garrison 3 (the smallest one without the bifold doors) wood stove. I'm trying to heat a 1000sq ft old home, with plenty of air leaks (that I have "mostly" sealed). It's more of a hunting cabin on the side of a hill, but I picked the entire place up for $11,500 and spent all summer installing plumbing by tapping into the fresh springs that are above the cabin on the hill. This place has a lot of potential, but I'm still struggling with the heating situation... And winter is here. I live in the northeast (upstate NY). We can get nights down into the single diget negatives sometimes. Currently on 40 degree nights, I wake up after getting the house up to 70 degrees at night and it's 58 in the morning. I fear that without longer burn times, I'll wake up with frozen pex lines. I've realized this stove isn't going to cut it and needs to be replaced with something with longer burn times, but I've hit a dilemma... I might have too many demands for what I'm looking for, and that stove might not exist and/or be a unicorn. So I figured it's time to sign up and join the forums. I'm looking for some help deciding what might be my best option when choosing a brand / model. So here are some of the features I'm looking for.

- Budgett $1500-2k
- Be able to cook on it (for grid down scenarios)
- Id like a glass front (because it looks good)
- Long burn times so I don't have to be up all night stocking the stove to prevent frozen pipes.
- Can only fit a 6" flu
- Multifuel? Wood/coal?

Most important is not having frozen pipes and 6" flu, but if I could get all those extra features too, I'd be ecstatic.

Currently with my garrison I'm throwing a log in every 30 mins. If I damp it down anymore, I choke it out. Since I live up on a hill, the only way to get the wood up to the house is to haul it up in a heavy duty agri-fab garden cart attached to a winch. So the less of that I have to do, the better. I'm going to get old some day, so getting away with burning less wood so I don't have to haul as much up hill... The better. That's why multifuel seems attractive to me. Especially since there's a large coal supplier about 10mins down the road from me. But I still want to burn with "some" wood (spring and fall) because who doesn't want to watch a log burn in their firebox.

I was looking at the DS Anthra-max fireplace insert (model #DSFP16) because it burns wood & coal, has really long burn times with coal, has a glass front, and it's small enough to fit in my fireplace. But I'll probably sacrifice being able to cook on top of it due to the coal hopper on top and it being an insert.

It's a small space at only 29" from the floor to the top of the fireplace. So I'm really limited in my options especially with wood/coal. I've attached some dimensions, and photos of my current setup. I'm exhausted searching all the options and hope some of you can help.

Can I get all of my requests in one? Or am I dreaming. :'(

 

[begreen]

Yes, there are solutions for this. One thing you could do is get an insert like the Drolet 1800i. Costco had been selling it as a kit including liner in this price range. Another insert is the True North TN20. There are others that may pop up on the used market like a Napoleon 1402 or Pacific Energy Super.

A modern stove is going to burn a lot different than the old Garrison. It will need dry, fully seasoned wood and at least a 12' tall chimney, preferably a couple of feet higher. I would still have a backup solution like electric baseboards with the thermostat set to 50º to protect the piping.

 

[Justinmichael]

These all look like great options. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to cook on one of these, you would just install the insert sticking out of the firebox enough to put a pan on, and don't install the face shroud around the stove?

I noticed none of these are Multifuel either. Are there any wood/coal stoves that can give me the ability to cook on too? From what I've seen, all the wood/coal inserts that are small enough have a hopper on top for coal so probably will not get hot enough to cook on.

I plan on putting solar hot boxes hooked up to thermal switches on my south wall for supplemental heat. I did that on my old house and had great success with it. So like you said, with some electric baseboard, with some solar, and the more efficient wood stove, I should have a pretty good system.

I got the house up to 72° last night at 12am before bed with an outdoor temp of 27°. I left a 1500watt electric oil heater on all night and woke up today with an indoor temp of 52°. So that was fun. I'm sure the ol lady isn't going to be happy this year. Lol

 

[begreen]

Yes, an insert without the surround may be more practical for cooking. If you could find a used Regency HI2100 that would work well as a wood stove for this purpose. It is known as a Hearth Heater and projects mostly out onto a deep hearth. If you choose a wood insert, look for models that don't have a convective lid over the stovetop.

There are only a few multifuel stoves and they are not EPA approved to my knowledge. I don't know if they can be sold anymore. In general, the requirements for burning coal and for burning wood are quite different. A stove that burns both is often like a swiss army knife. Good for occasional use, but no substitute for the proper tool when there is work to be done. DS Stoves makes an anthracite burner insert. It might be usable for an occasional wood fire, but it is purpose-built for coal. I am not overly fond of the design with the blower buried in the back of the insert.

 

[Rickb]

Also if you havent a put one in yet. I good block off plate might make a huge difference for that fire place.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I recommend tightening up insulation and sealing. You will cut down the amount of stove capacity you'll need once you get the losses under control. $20 of caulk will completely change most houses. $1000 put into insulation will be a game changer. Its not as fun or sexy as a new stove, but it'll give you immediate paybacks in comfort.

Also, start collecting wood. You'll need it to dry on site stacked and covered for a couple years before its ready to burn.

 

[jetsam]

Everything you said was a plea for more insulation and new windows. You could possibly do that and a large new stove on a $2000 budget in a small house if you do the labor.

 

[gr8shot]

Like others have said, the money in insulation may be what you need more than a better stove. However most modern stoves will be more efficient. I'd either go with a purpose built coal stove, or purpose built wood stove. On the wood side, one with a built in fan is going to make a world of difference. With that old stove you're just relying on radiant heat. With a blower you get the radiant heat, but you're also blowing hot air off the stove which extracts much more of the btu's out of the wood, and much less heat going out the chimney. I'd suggest buying more stove than you need since it's your primary heat source. Our hunting cabin has a small wood burner as it's primary heat source, and burn times arent much more than about 3-4 hours. So if nobody wakes up at night, we also wake up to either high 50*s or low 60*s in the morning, and a stove that is completely dead without enough coals to restart it.

In my home, we have an Osburn 2400 that will heat the entire 2 story house, burn for 8+ hours, and still be pumping out some heat in the morning, with a very nice bed of coals left that always easily restarts the fire in the morning.

One interim thing you can do that would help a lot is just point a fan so it's blowing over your stove in the evenings when you've got it going good. That will help get some more heat out of it and heat the house a bit more. We do that at our hunting cabin, once the stove is good and hot, that fan really helps it put out a lot more heat in a hurry.

 

[Justinmichael]

Thank you for all the advice everyone! I completely agree about the need for more insulation. Unfortunately, I can only fit r-19 in the loft, but I was unable to get to the subfloor this year. I was able to seal up as many airgaps as I could to prevent cold air blowing under the house, but didn't have the time to do the floors. The plan for next year is to spray foam the entire subfloor underneath. I have gone around and sealed all the old windows with plastic, weather stripped all the air gaps. I bought 24 cans of spray foam and seal every gap in the loft before insulating too. The place is pretty tight, but most heat loss is through the uninsulated wood floors.

The reason I'm so concerned with long burn times though is because sometimes I need to leave for 24 hours, as sometimes I work hours from home, and would need a hotel for the night. Id like to just top off a coal hopper on those occasions and let it run, but as you guys have mentioned, maybe some electric baseboard or a vented propane setup to get through those longer periods where the stove will not be running would be the best option there.

Thanks for all the advice though! I have plenty of good options to start hunting for now.

 

[gr8shot]

Another old school trick that helps a lot is to stack cheap hay bales all around the base of the house. Thats an easy way to insulate the subfloor area from the outside. Our first rental house, the landlord was an old farmer and I talked him into a load of small sqaure haybales and did just that. Stopped our never ending frozen pipe problems we were having literally overnight. Can't quantify how much money in propane it saved us. But going from frozen pipes on a weekly basis, to never again the rest of the winter means that it definitely worked!

 

[jetsam]

There are wood stoves that burn 24 hours (I have one), but not for an install budget in the sub-$2000 range.

Also bear in mind that 2.5cf is 2.5cf- a stove that burns 24 hours may get somewhat more BTUs into the house by not sending so many BTUs up the flue, but you're releasing the same number of BTUs from the wood in the fancy stove and the cheap stove.

The practical upshot of this is that if you need to burn the stove on high all the time due to leaky windows or whatever, you may as well have the cheap stove because you'll get the same results.

If you can get by on low constant heat, look into a BK! They have a whole line of smaller stoves that fit on a 6" flue and will go ~24h on a load. (They also have a bigger one with a bigger firebox, but you need an 8" flue for that.)

Speaking of windows, if you are going to try to get through the winter with the old ones, a poor install can be worse than a poor window. Run an IR thermometer around your weathersealed windows. If you find significant leaks, pull the interior moulding off and look at the space between the jamb and the framing. If you find a big space with a shim in it, spray in a bead of polyurethane (the blue can of Great Stuff, blue won't smash in your jamb as it dries).

 

[SpaceBus]

You could look at a multi fuel cookstove like the Heco 420/520. I think there are a few more, but some are like my stove that claim you can burn coal in them, but I wouldn't.