Am I Going To Burn My House Down???

[tsruggles]

Hello all!

I've been doing a lot of research here and have found some great information! Thank you all for your knowledgeable contributions!

I'll get right to the point. I have a new Jotul F55. It's an amazing stove! It's installed in a brick fireplace that's fitted with a 6" stainless liner. The brick chimney is about 3' x 2' with the liner running up the center of the cavity. I have the stove rear vented directly into a 90 and up about a foot of black pipe to the liner.

After reading the forums I determined that the stovepipe thermometer had to get thrown into a snowbank. If I were to let the stove operation continue to be dictated by the stovepipe readings I fear that I would be wasting wood while being cold and allowing creosote to build up.

I have since been asked (commanded) to go dig the thermometer out of the snow and reinstall it. I have refused to since I feel that operating the stove within the parameters of the "safe" zone is not doing us any big favors. As soon as the needle comes within a quarter inch of the "call the fire department and evacuate the house" red zone, it gets turned down despite the fact that the stove is still under 500 degrees.

I just feel that a steel tube inside of a brick chimney could probably sustain the blue blazes of the underworld surging through it for an hour or so...... much less the heat from a really nice stove.

You all probably know why I'm posting this question. Please, feel free to inquire about more specifics relating to my current setup. I just think that it would be helpful to all forum readers (especially me) to be able to assess exactly how much risk I run by not using that darn thermometer.

Please folks, help a guy out here. If you need pictures, I'll take them. More info? I'll give it to you! I could use all of the advice that I can get (all right here in a convenient single thread that I can easily review with loved ones). Otherwise I'm probably going to be residing with the thermometer in that snowbank soon.

 

[pen]

Was your last one a rutland? If so, they average their scale so that they claim it can be used for the stove-pipe and stove-top.... making it (along with its construction) worthless IMO.

Try a condar.

This scale look a bit better? Also, they are a quality thermometer.

For a steel or cast stove, 700 and under is a good "redline" so to speak. 750 for some very robust units,,,, but it depends on the stove.

Are you running the blower?

 

[tsruggles]

Was your last one a rutland? If so, they average their scale so that they claim it can be used for the stove-pipe and stove-top.... making it (along with its construction) worthless IMO.

Try a condar.

This scale look a bit better? Also, they are a quality thermometer.

For a steel or cast stove, 700 and under is a good "redline" so to speak. 750 for some very robust units,,,, but it depends on the stove.

Are you running the blower?

Hi. Thanks for the quick response. The thermometer hits red at 450. Not sure of its make since it's lost and gone forever. Those temperatures that you mention, is that a stovepipe reading or stove top? I'm afraid that my readings are skewed because of the short distance of the black pipe before it disappears into the fireplace flue. I do like the readings of this thermometer. Makes it easier for sure. I don't run a blower because I have two 52" ceiling fans right above the stove.

 

[begreen]

The thermometer you want it is a stove top thermometer. Or get one without any scales or red alerts and just go by the temperature of the stove top. 600-650F is a common, safe cruising temp for this stove as measured on the stove top.

And no, you aren't going to burn the place down at that temp.

 

[pen]

Being in a fireplace, I'd consider the blower.

The temps I mentioned are for the stove top.

Condar makes a different thermometer with a different scale on it specifically for the stove pipe. That's where other manufacturers fail (like rutland) in that their scale is an average of both places, rather than specific to where it is being used.

Here's a scale for stove pipe

Here's their website http://www.condar.com/ These products can be purchased at other places like amazon and stove shops as well.

pen

 

[Dix]

Hello all!

I've been doing a lot of research here and have found some great information! Thank you all for your knowledgeable contributions!

I'll get right to the point. I have a new Jotul F55. It's an amazing stove! It's installed in a brick fireplace that's fitted with a 6" stainless liner. The brick chimney is about 3' x 2' with the liner running up the center of the cavity. I have the stove rear vented directly into a 90 and up about a foot of black pipe to the liner.

After reading the forums I determined that the stovepipe thermometer had to get thrown into a snowbank. If I were to let the stove operation continue to be dictated by the stovepipe readings I fear that I would be wasting wood while being cold and allowing creosote to build up.

I have since been asked (commanded) to go dig the thermometer out of the snow and reinstall it. I have refused to since I feel that operating the stove within the parameters of the "safe" zone is not doing us any big favors. As soon as the needle comes within a quarter inch of the "call the fire department and evacuate the house" red zone, it gets turned down despite the fact that the stove is still under 500 degrees.

I just feel that a steel tube inside of a brick chimney could probably sustain the blue blazes of the underworld surging through it for an hour or so...... much less the heat from a really nice stove.

You all probably know why I'm posting this question. Please, feel free to inquire about more specifics relating to my current setup. I just think that it would be helpful to all forum readers (especially me) to be able to assess exactly how much risk I run by not using that darn thermometer.

Please folks, help a guy out here. If you need pictures, I'll take them. More info? I'll give it to you! I could use all of the advice that I can get (all right here in a convenient single thread that I can easily review with loved ones). Otherwise I'm probably going to be residing with the thermometer in that snowbank soon.

I agree with all of the above.

And thanks, for the 2nd best first post I've seen around here

 

[Woody Stover]

I find the Condars to be pretty close to the reading I get with the IR gun. The jumbo Meeco is pretty close as well.

It sounds like you have the thermo on a horizontal pipe, right behind the flue exit. That's the same setup I have. These thermos are calibrated for placement on a vertical pipe, 12-18" above the flue collar, so they'll read higher on the horizontal setup, closer to the flue collar.

You definitely want a flue thermo so you don't over-fire your pipe; It's not rated to withstand sustained high temps. And the flue thermo tells you (although there are some variables) what's going on in the firebox.

 

[weatherguy]

You need a thermo or it's like driving a car without a speedometer. Let me know how the stove does for you, I'm thinking of doing a similar set up with my fireplace and it's one of the stoves I'm considering since it would fit like a glove.

 

[tsruggles]

So that 2nd thermometer is scaled similarly to the one I have/had. The problem is that if I get the stove up to 500+ I will stay in the first stages of that hot zone. What advantages would a blower give me over the two Cessna props on my ceiling?

Here's my stove pipe.... there's not much of a place for the heat to dissipate.

 

[tsruggles]

You need a thermo or it's like driving a car without a speedometer. Let me know how the stove does for you, I'm thinking of doing a similar set up with my fireplace and it's one of the stoves I'm considering since it would fit like a glove.

I've had this thing all winter and it's awesome! I'm in Maine and we've had some seriously cold weather this year. I highly recommend it.

 

[BrotherBart]

This stove has been in a fireplace for eight seasons and has never seen a flue thermometer. Only on the stove top.

And we ain't living in a shelter waiting for the burned down house to be rebuilt.

Tell her to rest. As the maker of my stove told me "It ain't gonna split down the middle.".

 

[tsruggles]

This stove has been in a fireplace for eight seasons and has never seen a flue thermometer. Only on the stove top.

And we ain't living in a shelter waiting for the burned down house to be rebuilt.

Tell her to rest. As the maker of my stove told me "It ain't gonna split down the middle.".

View attachment 125583

The issue is whether or not the chimney will catch on fire. She had some dufus fill a stove with kindling once and left it wide open and the pipe turned red. So now she's scared. But that was a through the ceiling setup so I get that. But now we live and die by the pipe thermo. That looks identical to my setup.

 

[BrotherBart]

Keep keeping that flue temp too low and that chimney fire will happen. Let that stove walk and talk and the pipe stays clean and no chimney fires.

 

[tsruggles]

Keep keeping that flue temp too low and that chimney fire will happen. Let that stove walk and talk and the pipe stays clean and no chimney fires.

I'm quoting you so that it appears twice!

 

[pen]

The jumbo Meeco is pretty close as well.

Meeco is made by rutland as well. If you got a good one, you lucked out. I burned through 3 that were worthless (2 read well for a time period, then crapped out).

Have been running a condar for over 3 years and that is 2x as long as I was able to get out of my best rutland.

pen

 

[tsruggles]

Keep keeping that flue temp too low and that chimney fire will happen. Let that stove walk and talk and the pipe stays clean and no chimney fires.

Could you elaborate a bit on what exactly "walking and talking" entails? Just to be specific.

 

[Dix]

Could you elaborate a bit on what exactly "walking and talking" entails? Just to be specific.

Let the stove do what it was designed to do.

It's ok......

**waves to Mrs TS ..... Pssst, there's a "Sistahood here on Hearth.com **

 

[rideau]

As they heat up, they make pinging and other sounds....

 

[BrotherBart]

Let the stove do what it was designed to do.

It's ok......

**waves to Mrs TS ..... Pssst, there's a "Sistahood here on Hearth.com **

What she said.

 

[branchburner]

[quote="tsruggles, post: 1649452, member: 31003"because of the short distance of the black pipe before it disappears into the fireplace flue[/quote]

Then you're out of the woods, and the frying pan, and the device can stay in the snowbank... the "red zone" on that device is for a reading that should be taken higher up on the flue. For your setup, impossible. So case closed.

When taking a temp that close to the stove you are not getting the same temp as someone else might get when talking about "safe" flue temps. Apples and oranges. Rather than taking an oral temp, it's like you have been... well, you get the idea.

But for a nice conciliatory compromise, get yourself and herself a $25 IR gun. You can check the flue and the stove top (and have fun playing with the cats).

If the stove or the pipe turn red, whatever the IR gun reads at that moment, that's probably too high. That's the "red zone" for sure. But there are plenty of threads here about the range of flue temps, and people will happy to help you arrive at a "safe" temp range, that's translated from a reading 18" above the flue collar to 6" above.

 

[BrotherBart]

Dixie knows of what she speaks. She runs two stoves heating her manse.

 

[branchburner]

I don't run a blower

If you want to push some heat out of that fireplace, put a small fan on the floor to one side of the stove, blowing cool floor air towards the back wall of the fireplace directly behind the stove. You will be amazed.

Of course, significant others don't always take kindly to small appliances sitting in the middle of the living room floor with cords running across the floor to who knows where. You may find your fan in a snowbank.

 

[BrotherBart]

Flue temps were a creaky gauge back when you didn't have a glass in the door and didn't have a clue what was going on in that box. They belong in wikipedia along with buggy whips.

An external temp a few inches up a flue pipe tells you not one damned thing about the temp just a few feet more up that chimney. What you want to know is that the stuff in that box is burning, not going up and lining your chimney.

 

[tsruggles]

If you want to push some heat out of that fireplace, put a small fan on the floor to one side of the stove, blowing cool floor air towards the back wall of the fireplace directly behind the stove. You will be amazed.

Of course, significant others don't always take kindly to small appliances sitting in the middle of the living room floor with cords running across the floor to who knows where. You may find your fan in a snowbank.

I put these babies on high and my three year old has to hang on to my leg. They are directly above the stove. I'm going to need a really strong arguement as to why a $300 blower will work so much better.

 

[Mrs. Krabappel]

Let the stove do what it was designed to do.

It's ok......

**waves to Mrs TS ..... Pssst, there's a "Sistahood here on Hearth.com **

Yes I got up on the roof today to run the brush down the chimney. My wood this year is half great half not really ready to burn, so I was curious about what I'd find. Creosote was minimal because I let the stove "grab the bit and run with it" as Dix might say.