Another “water leaking into stovepipe” question...

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MarkEMark2

New Member
Feb 11, 2021
6
Nashville TN Area
I have a cast iron wood stove (Vogelzang BE-42E) in my shop. The previous owner used it, but the outside portion of the stove pipe had fallen off. This year I decided to install the outside portion of the chimney pipe which involved a 90 degree elbow to link the horizontal pipe exiting the shop to the 4’ vertical pipe that takes the exhaust smoke out over the roof. The pipe is single wall, with a press-together seam down the length of each 24” section when connected.

After a rain, the shop floor has a puddle of water outside of the stove, and the inside is wet with puddles. No water seems to be on the outside of the pipe. I sealed the gaps where the pipe goes through the wall joint so there is no gaps left. Last night and today it rained again (since my sealing efforts 2 days ago) and it hasn’t helped at all. But now I believe the water is coming solely from inside the single wall pipe. Must be seeping in from joints where they connect (I sealed some of those yesterday at the point where the pipes connect to each other - but not all). I did not seal the long edges where the single wall pipe snaps together to actually form a “pipe” as I didn’t think that would be necessary. However, I’m stumped as to how the water is coming in. I have a pipe cap installed on the top of the pipe, and with as much water as there on the floor is I can’t imagine it is where all the water is coming from. My only thought would be that it’s coming in from either where the joints connect to the next pipe, or some health through the seams or the pipes join together to form a pipe. The crimped ends of each pipe or facing down, or more precisely, towards the stove. I’ll try to attach pictures of my installation. Any thought would help as this will rust my stove in a hurry, as well as flood me out! Thanks in advance!
Mark

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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,882
central pa
I have a cast iron wood stove (Vogelzang BE-42E) in my shop. The previous owner used it, but the outside portion of the stove pipe had fallen off. This year I decided to install the outside portion of the chimney pipe which involved a 90 degree elbow to link the horizontal pipe exiting the shop to the 4’ vertical pipe that takes the exhaust smoke out over the roof. The pipe is single wall, with a press-together seam down the length of each 24” section when connected.

After a rain, the shop floor has a puddle of water outside of the stove, and the inside is wet with puddles. No water seems to be on the outside of the pipe. I sealed the gaps where the pipe goes through the wall joint so there is no gaps left. Last night and today it rained again (since my sealing efforts 2 days ago) and it hasn’t helped at all. But now I believe the water is coming solely from inside the single wall pipe. Must be seeping in from joints where they connect (I sealed some of those yesterday at the point where the pipes connect to each other - but not all). I did not seal the long edges where the single wall pipe snaps together to actually form a “pipe” as I didn’t think that would be necessary. However, I’m stumped as to how the water is coming in. I have a pipe cap installed on the top of the pipe, and with as much water as there on the floor is I can’t imagine it is where all the water is coming from. My only thought would be that it’s coming in from either where the joints connect to the next pipe, or some health through the seams or the pipes join together to form a pipe. The crimped ends of each pipe or facing down, or more precisely, towards the stove. I’ll try to attach pictures of my installation. Any thought would help as this will rust my stove in a hurry, as well as flood me out! Thanks in advance!
Mark

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Install a chimney and your problems will probably be fixed.

There are lots of pretty serious safety issues with your setup. Starting with the fact that you need actual chimney pipe meaning pipe listed to ul 103-ht and all of the required fittings once your connector pipe hits the wall untill the end of the top of the chimney which needs to end 2' above anything within 10'.
 

MarkEMark2

New Member
Feb 11, 2021
6
Nashville TN Area
Well, that might be the end the use of this stove then... The shop is 30’ x 40’ and he’s had it in there a long time before we bought the house last year. I didn’t even try to use it last year, and thought I’d give it a go this year, but it doesn’t do much to heat a shop my size except right around where it is. I was hoping to determine how the water is getting in, as that’s a real mystery to me...
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,882
central pa
Well, that might be the end the use of this stove then... The shop is 30’ x 40’ and he’s had it in there a long time before we bought the house last year. I didn’t even try to use it last year, and thought I’d give it a go this year, but it doesn’t do much to heat a shop my size except right around where it is. I was hoping to determine how the water is getting in, as that’s a real mystery to me...
It is getting into the pipe that was never meant to be used outside and is far from weather tight.
 

GENECOP

Minister of Fire
Jan 31, 2014
734
Ny
Correct those piping issues, it shouldn’t be difficult, and get yourself a larger stove, it will be worth it..
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,882
central pa
Well, that might be the end the use of this stove then... The shop is 30’ x 40’ and he’s had it in there a long time before we bought the house last year. I didn’t even try to use it last year, and thought I’d give it a go this year, but it doesn’t do much to heat a shop my size except right around where it is. I was hoping to determine how the water is getting in, as that’s a real mystery to me...
What is the shop used for?
 

MarkEMark2

New Member
Feb 11, 2021
6
Nashville TN Area
Since the guy before me has come over and we are friends, he has told me how he used it successfully to heat the shop reasonably well. I removed the inside pipe and replaced the entire pipe chain as the old pipe was old and needed to go away. It was single wall too, and this is what they told me to use at the hardware store. Since I have not done an installation like this before, I didn’t know what to get, so I followed the advice. Perhaps it was bad advice, but it was what the guy had installed and told me he used before too. Doesn’t make it right, but that’s how I ended up here. I have not read before that it needed to be different on the outside of the wall, and building a chimney is out of my price range, so if that is the only “fix”
to keep the stove from filling with water every time it rains, then the stove goes away. But since he had successfully (and dryly) used the stove before, I thought I’d ask for advice here to see if it was fixable. I have read other sites that discuss single wall installs like this, but not sure how the pipe gets sealed to prevent water intrusion into the pipe chimney itself. I was surprised it was happening at first, but now realize none of the joints would necessarily be water tight... yet if they are getting used in other places and not having a problem, what am I doing incorrectly?

I realize I am ignorant, and yet I am trying to learn so I can fix it.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
91,319
South Puget Sound, WA
I have a cast iron wood stove (Vogelzang BE-42E) in my shop. The previous owner used it, but the outside portion of the stove pipe had fallen off. This year I decided to install the outside portion of the chimney pipe which involved a 90 degree elbow to link the horizontal pipe exiting the shop to the 4’ vertical pipe that takes the exhaust smoke out over the roof. The pipe is single wall, with a press-together seam down the length of each 24” section when connected.

After a rain, the shop floor has a puddle of water outside of the stove, and the inside is wet with puddles. No water seems to be on the outside of the pipe. I sealed the gaps where the pipe goes through the wall joint so there is no gaps left. Last night and today it rained again (since my sealing efforts 2 days ago) and it hasn’t helped at all. But now I believe the water is coming solely from inside the single wall pipe. Must be seeping in from joints where they connect (I sealed some of those yesterday at the point where the pipes connect to each other - but not all). I did not seal the long edges where the single wall pipe snaps together to actually form a “pipe” as I didn’t think that would be necessary. However, I’m stumped as to how the water is coming in. I have a pipe cap installed on the top of the pipe, and with as much water as there on the floor is I can’t imagine it is where all the water is coming from. My only thought would be that it’s coming in from either where the joints connect to the next pipe, or some health through the seams or the pipes join together to form a pipe. The crimped ends of each pipe or facing down, or more precisely, towards the stove. I’ll try to attach pictures of my installation. Any thought would help as this will rust my stove in a hurry, as well as flood me out! Thanks in advance!
Mark

View attachment 274309 View attachment 274310 View attachment 274311 View attachment 274312
This is a pretty strong example of an illegal and dangerous installation.
 
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MongoMongoson

Member
Feb 6, 2021
238
Wisconsin
Since the guy before me has come over and we are friends, he has told me how he used it successfully to heat the shop reasonably well. I removed the inside pipe and replaced the entire pipe chain as the old pipe was old and needed to go away. It was single wall too, and this is what they told me to use at the hardware store. Since I have not done an installation like this before, I didn’t know what to get, so I followed the advice. Perhaps it was bad advice, but it was what the guy had installed and told me he used before too. Doesn’t make it right, but that’s how I ended up here. I have not read before that it needed to be different on the outside of the wall, and building a chimney is out of my price range, so if that is the only “fix”
to keep the stove from filling with water every time it rains, then the stove goes away. But since he had successfully (and dryly) used the stove before, I thought I’d ask for advice here to see if it was fixable. I have read other sites that discuss single wall installs like this, but not sure how the pipe gets sealed to prevent water intrusion into the pipe chimney itself. I was surprised it was happening at first, but now realize none of the joints would necessarily be water tight... yet if they are getting used in other places and not having a problem, what am I doing incorrectly?

I realize I am ignorant, and yet I am trying to learn so I can fix it.

I have learned a lot from this forum over the years and if you stick around, you will too.

I have seen this kind of setup before, and the others are correct in that it is dangerous. The minimum clearance allowed between single wall pipe and a combustible surface, like your roof or any wood, is 18”. It doesn’t matter how far it is from the stove. The clearances exist so that when things go south (think chimney fire), stuff adjacent to your pipes doesn't burst into flames immediately.

Single wall outside is bad for more than one reason. It allows the smoke to cool very quickly and that means creosote condensing in your pipes which can eventually lead to a chimney fire. It will also rust away very quickly. The paint on it will not hold up to the elements and the products of wood burning are caustic, especially when water is involved. That just helps promote rust.

If you Google NFPA 211, you can probably find an old copy in PDF form. It is a long document (2019 version is 68 pages), but if you follow it you will be safe....

And yeah Class A chimney is not cheap. I have seen sections of it for sale on Craigslist. If you do your homework to figure out what you need AND get lucky, you can find some.

As far as water goes, you have the crimped ends of the single wall pointing down, like you are supposed to. But those pipes don't really seal. When water runs down your pipes outside it runs in at the seams, and with all the crimps pointing down it can't get out until it gets to your stove. The reason the crimps point down is so that liquid creosote runs all the way back to the stove. It works for water even better.
 

MarkEMark2

New Member
Feb 11, 2021
6
Nashville TN Area
Mongo:
Many thanks for the great detail. Based on what you said, (and explained!) I will remove the stove. Comments to a new member by the Moperators such as: “This is a pretty strong example of an illegal and dangerous installation.” Is not very helpful for correcting the situation. It makes the moderator feel superior in knowledge but does nothing for me to help correctly adjust the problem. I bow at your prowess begreen!

I will remove the stove and sell it. And, won’t be posting STUPID installations or comments here hence. But do appreciate the thoughtful help you (Mongo) provided. It gives me more reason to remove it other than it is dangerous and needs to be replaced.

Honestly, I am surprised at how some people don’t understand how they say things online makes them feel superior, but don’t understand that they are talking to people that they possibly (maybe they ARE that coarse) wouldn’t talk to in person the same way. If it is that dangerous, please give me context versus making fun of the poster by flaming the installation and not goving a helpful correction. But I am sufficiently spanked and won’t be back.
 

GENECOP

Minister of Fire
Jan 31, 2014
734
Ny
Mongo:
Many thanks for the great detail. Based on what you said, (and explained!) I will remove the stove. Comments to a new member by the Moperators such as: “This is a pretty strong example of an illegal and dangerous installation.” Is not very helpful for correcting the situation. It makes the moderator feel superior in knowledge but does nothing for me to help correctly adjust the problem. I bow at your prowess begreen!

I will remove the stove and sell it. And, won’t be posting STUPID installations or comments here hence. But do appreciate the thoughtful help you (Mongo) provided. It gives me more reason to remove it other than it is dangerous and needs to be replaced.

Honestly, I am surprised at how some people don’t understand how they say things online makes them feel superior, but don’t understand that they are talking to people that they possibly (maybe they ARE that coarse) wouldn’t talk to in person the same way. If it is that dangerous, please give me context versus making fun of the poster by flaming the installation and not goving a helpful correction. But I am sufficiently spanked and won’t be back.

People are idiots, in real life and online, if you go into any online forum with a thin skin, you won’t enjoy the experience..It’s really no big deal, if someone says something you don’t like, just ignore them or tell them to F off, which is often my preferred method.. BTW, I don’t find the moderators comment to be offensive, but that’s just me..
 

Caw

Minister of Fire
May 26, 2020
1,092
Massachusetts
You gotta be able to shake things off and understand that sometimes you're just gonna get flamed...it'll make life online much less stressful. This is the internet after all, it's the wild wild west! Then sometimes how you're reading something may not be how how was intended...which is what happened here.

Begreen is one the most regular and best posters here, helping hundreds if not thousands of people over the years. I don't think his comment was inflammatory...he's correct. Bholler and others already kind of told you what was wrong with the setup too.

To me it reads like you got the advice you came to get but weren't really happy about the answer, got a little sensitive about a single comment, and are taking your ball and going home. But like I said earlier...things aren't always as they read. I could easily be misinterpreting you.

If you are into or getting into wood burning you won't find a better resource anywhere than the community here. It's really a great bunch. Why stomp off over one comment? What about the other helpful ones? You got the answers you needed...for free! To each their own I guess.

Maybe it's just decades of reddit and other forum participation but Im never surprised when this exact thing happens...it almost always does at some point. Reminds me of a great meme:

images (3).jpeg


Edit - I stink at typing!
 
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gthomas785

Minister of Fire
Feb 8, 2020
567
Central MA
Hey @MarkEMark2 I don't think anyone on this forum was trying to upset you, or make you feel stupid, or wants you to leave. If you stick around, you'll find that this forum has an excellent culture and focus on s a f e ty around wood burning practices, and with good reason. Far too many people are cavalier about using their woodstoves ("I've had this setup for 50 years and never once burned my house down!") with disastrous results.

When a new poster comes by looking for advice, they may often get hit with a slew of responses cautioning about various ways in which their setup is dangerous, not to code, etc. This is not meant to humiliate or intimidate or belittle anyone, but simply to warn you that you could face serious injury or property loss if you continue using it as-is. Nobody wants that, even for a stranger on the internet. Don't take it personally.

As to your original question, the simple answer is: water is coming into the stove because you've used the wrong kind of pipe that is not made for outdoor use. I know that's not what you wanted to hear because the correct pipe is expensive. There are plenty of "hacks" you can try to stop water from coming in, but from the collective experience of the seasoned wood burners on this forum, they know these kinds of fixes will not offer satisfactory results for long, and can put you or your property in danger so they are not recommended.

The cheapest safe option which you've figured out is to just disconnect the stove. If you're happy with that, then I am too. If you want to use the stove as is and don't care about the risk, that's your decision. But if you'd like to get the stove up and running in a safe way, stick around and read through the wealth of information available here about chimney pipe, clearances, etc. and why they are important.
 
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