Another example of bad chimney construction

[bholler]

Did an inspection today to repair after a structure fire. Anyone see any problems?

 

[clancey]

Is that cider block suppose to be in there?? clancey

 

[PA Mountain Man]

It hurts just to look at it.

 

[bholler]

Is that cider block suppose to be in there?? clancey

Well if they had turned it the other way and filled the cores that wouldn't be a problem. The other side where there was nothing separating the liner from framing is an issue. What started the fire was the top of the metal firebox being about 1/2" from framing.

 

[SpaceBus]

What does homeowner's insurance do for installs like this? Is the homeowner on the hook for everything if this kind of fire happens? From your description the operator of the fireplace didn't do anything wrong.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Did an inspection today to repair after a structure fire. Anyone see any problems?

I don't think I see anything BUT problems. Yikes.

IME as a building inspector, one of the things that contractors push back on most vociferously is maintaining manufacturer clearances to combustibles for chimney venting. Apparently the fact that enough heat can be transmitted through the venting to ignite wood framing isn't widely know in the construction industry.

They're good with stove/fireplace firebox clearances, but a whole lot of them seem to think you can frame right up against vent pipe labeled as requiring 2 or 3 inches clearance to combustible surfaces.

 

[jetsam]

Why do there appear to be two sections of clay flue stacked on top of each other and leaning against the brick?

 

[bholler]

Why do there appear to be two sections of clay flue stacked on top of each other and leaning against the brick?

That is the liner for the furnace

 

[bholler]

I don't think I see anything BUT problems. Yikes.

IME as a building inspector, one of the things that contractors push back on most vociferously is maintaining manufacturer clearances to combustibles for chimney venting. Apparently the fact that enough heat can be transmitted through the venting to ignite wood framing isn't widely know in the construction industry.

They're good with stove/fireplace firebox clearances, but a whole lot of them seem to think you can frame right up against vent pipe labeled as requiring 2 or 3 inches clearance to combustible surfaces.

I actually had a contractor argue with me for almost an hour that the chimney was zero clearance even though there was a label clearly visible saying 2" the homeowner ended up throwing him off the site.

 

[begreen]

Well if they had turned it the other way and filled the cores that wouldn't be a problem. The other side where there was nothing separating the liner from framing is an issue. What started the fire was the top of the metal firebox being about 1/2" from framing.

They are lucky it didn't turn out worse. It looks like the builder threw in anything around that was handy as filler.

That is the liner for the furnace

Just imagine if someone decided to replace the furnace and hook up a woodstove to that janky flue. Looks like it will need a complete tear-out to fix.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Maybe this can be a sticky we can point to when somebody asks why they need an insulated liner in a masonry chimney?

 

[begreen]

Here's another one. This chimney had no brick on one side of the clay liner. The house had been heated with a woodstove for over 3 decades before pyrolysis finally lowered the ignition temp to the point of combustion. This is in an upstairs bedroom. She was just going to bed when the fire broke out. Fortunately, the fire dept. response was very quick.

 

[gthomas785]

Here's another one. This chimney had no brick on one side of the clay liner. The house had been heated with a woodstove for over 3 decades before pyrolysis finally lowered the ignition temp to the point of combustion. This is in an upstairs bedroom. She was just going to bed when the fire broke out. Fortunately, the fire dept. response was very quick.

View attachment 277336

I'm amazed that things like this get built. Is it just plain ignorance about chimney construction? Or someone trying to cut corners to save money, figuring it would probably be fine? Or maybe the old "it will help heat the bedroom" line?

At least in the OP I can understand someone hacking up their old chimney to install a metal fireplace and ending up the way it did. But this looks like it was originally built that way. Really? where was the building inspector??!

 

[peakbagger]

Whenever I see folks boast or comment that "there are no building inspectors where I live" usually in some rural area, I cringe. A good well funded building inspection program establishes that the hidden stuff at least meets minimum requirements. The town adjacent to me and many towns around me have building inspectors on paper and that is about it. The standard comment is just make sure it gets on the tax roles and if it owner built "you are going to be living in it so make it safe". Of course the contractors know which towns actually inspect and know which ones dont and adjust their pricing and scope of work to match. They do know how to make it look pretty but get into the hidden stuff and the corners that are cut are noticeable.

 

[bholler]

I'm amazed that things like this get built. Is it just plain ignorance about chimney construction? Or someone trying to cut corners to save money, figuring it would probably be fine? Or maybe the old "it will help heat the bedroom" line?

At least in the OP I can understand someone hacking up their old chimney to install a metal fireplace and ending up the way it did. But this looks like it was originally built that way. Really? where was the building inspector??!

That chimney was absolutely built that way no modifications done. Built in 82. The scary part is that it really isn't very uncommon we just don't know untill it causes a problem or the wall is opened up for some other reason.

There was an entire development here built in the early 90 where every furnace chimney was 3 sided going up the side of the house they built the 4th side one they got to the roof. They all passed inspections just fine and no one knew untill one caught fire about 5 years ago.

 

[bholler]

They are lucky it didn't turn out worse. It looks like the builder threw in anything around that was handy as filler.

Just imagine if someone decided to replace the furnace and hook up a woodstove to that janky flue. Looks like it will need a complete tear-out to fix.

His dog woke him up at 2:30 am. He said the dog got a steak in the morning.

It will get new insulated liners for both furnace and fireplace. The fireplace liners will need to be removed to allow for enough room. We will then build a proper face on the chimney. It can be fixed I will post pics as we work. It will be a couple weeks out though.

 

[clancey]

Thank God for his doggy..clancey

 

[bholler]

What does homeowner's insurance do for installs like this? Is the homeowner on the hook for everything if this kind of fire happens? From your description the operator of the fireplace didn't do anything wrong.

Insurance covers it. The homeowner did nothing wrong. If they could find the contractor who built it they may go after them.

 

[Caw]

His dog woke him up at 2:30 am. He said the dog got a steak in the morning.

It will get new insulated liners for both furnace and fireplace. The fireplace liners will need to be removed to allow for enough room. We will then build a proper face on the chimney. It can be fixed I will post pics as we work. It will be a couple weeks out though.

Good to have the work! Looking forward to the pics.

 

[bholler]

Good to have the work! Looking forward to the pics.

I wish we didn't have this one. It will be interesting but a pita and it is almost an hour away

 

[Caw]

I wish we didn't have this one. It will be interesting but a pita and it is almost an hour away

Fair. Do you work for yourself or do you get assigned stuff?

 

[bholler]

Fair. Do you work for yourself or do you get assigned stuff?

I own the buisness with my father I could certainly turn down the job if I wanted to. But the guy needs it fixed

 

[Rob_Red]

I own the buisness with my father I could certainly turn down the job if I wanted to. But the guy needs it fixed

I wish you were local to me, I am having a VERY hard time finding a good company to work with

 

[bholler]

Started the project today. Got the old clay liners for the fireplace out and new liner dropped for it. Furnace liner is tomorrow and starting to make clearances and rebuild the face. Should be finish on Wednesday.

 

[bholler]

Both liners in and wall closed up like it should have been to start with. No room for insulation on the bottom part of the fireplace liner so we need to provide proper clearances. That is tomorrow. The top is wrapped then thermix will be poured around both liners.