Another forum member Struggle is rebuilding his wood stove

[elkimmeg]

This is an attempt to move and start a new post originating from
Lots of questions about soapstone stoves…long Post
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3937/

After a lot of discussion it was determined that Struggles had a decent stove but never maintained. He was experiencing almost runaway fires. and planned to buy a new soapstone stove
With our help ( forum members) Sepecially Dylan and hopefully others the process has begun. He was able to get the gasket kit for the stove from
http://www.discountstove.com Ny next post is a continuation of how things are going and where struggles progress has taken him




The choice is yours did you also know that optional glass doors were made for that stove and possibly could be purchased, again a lot cheaper than new soap stone
That stove also has the option fire screen where the doors are swung open anfd you can enjoy the full fire view like any fireplace it would produce some heat

This stove has all that currently. I am in a bit of a pickle on what to do with it. I have heard before that it is considered a very good stove and that some say VC is not what it used to be.

Where could one find a manual for this stove? or least how to service it.

Since we have two small curtain climbers 3 and 5 year olds we do not open the doors and burn that way. I kind of like the idea of seeing the fire with the doors closed.

I am half considering if replacing ti using it in the garage but the stove is really in nice shape. I would really like to get a cleaner burning stove.

One note is I have not been using the down draft feature door as it seem to kind of turn to smoldering/ ash build up behind that panel. Should one be able to remove that panel with out totally taking the stove apart?

If one was to keep it should the whole stove be taken aprt and then resealed part by part and where does one find the correct sealer and how to clean the old sealer off. I will post a picture in a few mintues of this stove and how our upstairs unit is set up.
Signature

Vermont Casting Vigilant




(broken link removed) current stove/location

(broken link removed) upstairs unit. There is a bit of story behind this when a furniture decorator came out to access the layout etc of this room she suggested we PIANT THE BRICK, we never bit on that thankfully.

Chimney-chimney (broken link removed)
Signature

Vermont Casting Vigilant


the secondary air supply is blocked so you are not going to get any use out of secondary air and dampering

Honest assesment These were some of the finest VC ever built they were truely air tight This is not the 70 version this is a couple of models of refinements.
the polution issue is not the same as the earlier 70’s stoves. If rehabed an and the opperator understands how to properly work that stove it can be damn near equal to EPA stoves
EPA stoves added secondary non adjustiable non user intervention secondary air to burn cleaner, they had to idiot proof stoves. If the user understands how to opperate that stove and regulate the air supply and damper and the stove with all gaskets working, air passages clear,and dry wood there is no reason one can’t approach clean burning.

your picture show the clasic example of needing to be brought to to spec, the whitish power like look at you oval to round adapter is from over firing
I believe your stove is a good canidate worthy of mantaince As for soapstone with children, they still can get badly burned from touching the glass or vent

Here is a link to a parts supplier for your stove plus an exploded view of your stove parts Like I said it maybe possible to swap doors to glass doors for viewing
Also check this web site for older parts the Woodsman is a wealth of knowledge concerning your stove and another parts supplier.
(broken link removed)

Members here and myself can help instruct how to go about replacing gasketing Read my wiki about primer to purchasing a used stove and light test your stove for seam leaks
You may only need gasketing. I can also advise hoe to re seam some area without requiring a total rebuild. If you are like me, I take great pleasure enjoying the fruits of my labor
If not into getting your hands dirty and ash dust then new is the way to go. IT just be me and my outlook. may be a bit not as modern I like clasic cars I like making things work I donot mind a mechanical challange. I hate to waste usable things and throw them away because the batteries died. But not all have this same feeling and not app the patience needed to get their hands dirty. We have become a disposable society, where little is repaired but replaced I’m from a differnt school of thought but I ok with the modern disposible society they supply me with my tractors lawn mowers chain saws excersize equipment for my wife My autos It works for me
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struggle




Boy oh boy you are tugging at me now to keep it. I am almost sure at the bottom of the stove on the front the sealant is going to need redoing and other places as well. The gasket to the griddle (now I know what it is) Is hard and the seal on the windows clearly are not sealing the best now that I know a little more at what to look for. One concern would be taking it apart and broken fastneres along the way.

As for getting a little dirty I am a Master ASE auto tech so that is no problem.

I guess I am kind of hung up on the soapstone stove for looks and quality of burn time, but I am really rethinking this think now. Money is there to replace this stove but now am on the fence on what to do.

I am going to check this site out you linked.

I just am not real big on leaving the doors open but would rather

 

[elkimmeg]

I ordered the gasket kit, two tubes of sealant(gun type) and two cans of paint from the website you posted.

I talked a bit to them (dave) and they shot me a much better price on the soapstone than the other dealer and that was delivered to my house.

I told my wife the plan of attack and she is on board with it. Thinks I still crazy though but once I explained the white pipe and leaks she understands it now.

After looking at the bottom plate I am sure it will need to be resealed and I am taking the approach to completley dismantel and make as good as new.

Anyone know what the exact weight of this thing is? I am figuring three strong could carry it out? I called a friend he though a fridge cart would be best but I have berber carpet and am very concerned of snagging that on a cart. Carpet cost almost as much as a woodstove.



Dylan

struggle - 25 October 2006 03:05 PM
Anyone know what the exact weight of this thing is? I am figuring three strong could carry it out? I called a friend he though a fridge cart would be best but I have berber carpet and am very concerned of snagging that on a cart. Carpet cost almost as much as a woodstove.

I think it lists at 365 pounds, but remove the doors, griddle, discharge port, and ash fettle and you’ll be substantially less. By all means, borrow a hand truck, setting four or five pices of 2X10 on the ‘bed’ of the hand truck, and getting the stove up-n-off its legs and supported under the bottom plate. Strap the stove to the uprights of the hand truck. You can even remove the legs at this time....This will reduce the width of the beast by about three inches. It wouldn’t hurt to protect the carpet by enclosing the ‘breached’ stove in a large heavy-duty plastic bag....at least fill the exhaust port with a large rag. One person at the handle of the hand truck and one person below the bed, and up those cellar stairs ya go....nice and easy...one step at a time. Communicate.




elkimmeg

Here what you can remove to lighten the load the =doors the bottom ash grate the griddle cover you can also remove the flue collar you may also figuer out how to remove inside back plate ahd the outside decrative casings plates I bleieve they are bolted on at this point onec outside in the garage donot remove the frame yet also you man need allen wrenches to remove the handles.

This is good having wife doubt you abilities. mine does it all the time Replacing a window are you shue you know what you are doing? My response seems to put her back in perspective “ why do you know anybody better at doing this” Your a mehcanic It will make the rebuild even sweeter. “See honey I knew what I was doing.” Can’t believe you doubted my mechanical ability.

Wives know how to play you but that’s a two way street knowing how to play them as well

get some duct tape and tapeplastic over the door openint and removed flue collar opening get cardboard to put down to protect the carpet and get a two and good rope or strap I moved my stoves in and out of my home without any help using a two wheel hand truck only one step I ramped





struggle

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2029.jpg)

Here is what shows up after the bigger panel is removed. It was coming apart well until now. I am trying to figure out how to get the lower panel out? It wiggles a bit but still a no go.

The air delivery tub thingy that runs along the left side wall has a screw in the front of the stove and one in the middle of the tube center but both are tighter than well a #### ####. I am wondering if that is holding the lower rear panel in or should it slide up and out like the other. The seals on the joints look to be very lilkey leaking but will only find this out after I have it outside to blow out and then light test.

Thanks so far.



struggle


I cannot seem to get the lower panle off? Maybe it comes out after the sides are off? It will wiggle back and forth but I am trying not to force it.

I managed after much twisting to break/snape the screw holding the left side primary mainfold that goes into the side panel.

I spot checked the front of the stove with a flashlight and see light in many a places. It seems as if the sealant has just dissapeard completely in places other places it is all in tact.

Wainting for a freind to stop by later tonight to get it outside. I think I have shed about a #100lbs out of it so far. I hope to be able to work the screw out with a PB and maybe some heat.



Dylan

You’re doing well....and lessening the weight that’s gotta ascend the stairs. I think the lower piece should wiggle out. Also, you’re at a point where you can remove the damper if you’ll take off the lever...a set screw holds it. The damper is quite heavy....I’d guess ten to twelve pounds.

 

[elkimmeg]

struggles

Everything is out of the stove now short of taking the legs off and sides. The thin panel in the rear that appears to have been factory sealed was not sealed at the end so off it came to. THis leads me to the question as to what shoudl be sealed for inside panels on reassembly? Is that the only one. The reason I ask is after I finally got the lower panel out there is what looks like sealant that has come off of something laying in the bottom of that area. Maybe it was from the rear panel last part I removed ? It was the only place I saw that appeared to have sealant of some sort.

I am sure two people (strong) can carry the stove out now. I am going to get the ashes out of it now and then out to the garage it goes.

Whne the paint and seals show up in a couple of days my question is do I reassembly the side and seal then paint or paint each panel the seal assembly. Logic tells me seal assembly then paint as the sealant would adhere better this way. Which way do you the experts thin to go with this



Dylan


You’re into it deeper than I ever have, so I won’t be much help from here. I’m sure Don (elk) will be very helpful. I STILL like the idea of using a hand-truck, though. It’ll provide GREAT hand-holds.

Ya know, last year someone on this board was interested in buying a Hearthstone H-I that he’d found on eBay, I think. The H-I weighs-in at close to 700 pounds and is rated at 100,000 BTU/Hr, and it was in, brace yourself, someone’s upstairs BEDROOM. He was planning on getting four of his friends together to take it down a three-foot wide stairwell. I told him to ask the seller (If I recall correctly, it was part of an estate sale....the house was a dump.) if he could disassemble it the bedroom and remove it in pieces. That’s exactly what he ended up doing, but we never heard much from him, again.

Sooooo, stay in touch....and take lots of pics.



elkimmeg

take a few pictures to get me up to speed as to where you are at. Do yourself a favor and don’t go nuts taking that thing apart just yet

I have methods that can save you a lot of time and agrevation to get you there and some safe guards will make reessembly easier

A couple of additional helpfull tools you may need is ratchet holding straps, bar clamps, c clamps and a piece of plywood
the plywood or1 by2 two scrap pine Needed to make up gigs. to hold the pannells in place for re essembly and placement
there are two approaches one can take particial dissesembly and complete. with the top off and side panells off,
one can get to just about all the joints without futher dissesembly
here oncan scrape all loose cement out of the verticle plate joints. using a utility knife and a tourch tip cleaning rod sand paper but still leaving the rest of the sides in tac once the seams have all the rloose cement removed I said loose nosense removing cement that is not loose again blow gun to clean it up and blow out lose cement

remember I said you may want to build gigs with the top off build a gig out of 2/2 stwood straps that equals the exact size ot the existing opening you may want to use drywall screws in the essembly now build a gig thar mirrors the outside perimeter but build it larger like 1/2” you will need slme shingle tips to act a spacers or wedges becausr the outside is bigger it allows you to tip out the pallel and further clean the joints to line it back up use the 1/4 wedges shingle tips on all sides. that the hard way

the easy way blow out all loose cement with out moving the frame gunk refractioy cemnet in there witha caulking gun leaving a healthy bead on all joints with you finger pi=utty knife push it into the seam so that it squirts threw go over it witha smooth aother halthy bead a using you finger and light pressure Light ehought to smooth it on the outside whicj nobody can see place anbther bead and smooth it in a bit with your finger all joints many be able to be reseamed with out removing the sides of the box including health beads around the bottom plate seal from th inside and outside if you have access. there is no need for complete dissesembly and no real advantage and you may not need the use of the gig. do the bottom last.

If you remove the top and the plates that comprise th box fall off all bets are off use the ratchet banding strap before tapping the top off to hold them in position after you doo the verticle seams cramk that ratchet strap up to apply pressure to your new cemented joints that a good time to have that top interior two c clamps just to hold it in place while you crank that ratchet strapgig place it in the middle of the stove

 

[struggle]

"Do yourself a favor and don’t go nuts taking that thing apart just yet"

Uh huh yeah OK am on board with that .....scratching my hear looking around at these peices?? I guess I got back to the board a little to late for that info hh:


I will add some pictures to explain

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2033.jpg) base, the cement sealant is extrememly crumbly

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2033.jpg) At this point my wife shows up in the garage as I am chipping away at the old cement/sealant....."I am concerned about this thing being safe, are you sure this will work".......sure no problem I got it all the info from the internet :gulp:

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2032.jpg) This picture really does not show much other than the chain saw and log spliter in the back ground keeping eye on this project after all they are dependant on the stoves performance for work :lol:

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2035.jpg) Top on the bench. Have the cement cleane dout of it and one side panel. I was up til almost midnight cleaning. I have all the interior parts cleaned off. The top so far has been the most time consuming to clean out the groves.

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2031.jpg) base again

 

[struggle]

WOW !! You waste NO time. How're you heating in the meantime??

We are heating with the upstairs fireplace. It does very well. We fired it two days ago and yesterday it was 59 outside and our core temp today in the hallway is still at 72 and is only in the 40s today with clouds.

If all goes well and I get parts by Saturday I hope to have the VC back together but I have 3 different vehicles to servie/work on today. and then Friday a wedding to go to and Sunday I have to go to one of my cleints buisness to service a utility trailer for wiring/brake problems. Sooooooooooo by Sunday might be a bit of a stretch.

Elkimmeg,

The sealant after light test was for sure bad in the front right side panel. Plenty of light coming through that corner.

Do I paint the panels first or after everything is sealed back up? Obvious the doors can be done on their owm.

I do have clamps long ones and C-clamps.

The jig idea passed my mind but I went for it last night without any problems. I did have my wife stand by as I took the top off out of concern of the panels falling off to the side. It was not a problem.

Also on one of the front glass panels the gasket was ate away almost 2" so it is clear that this stove was pulling in extra air from several places.

Do I need to do anything special to the surface to be painted other than hit them with the wire brush?

Does one use the caulk gun tubes as sealant for gaskets as well. Seems like a have a container of stuff from the woodstove place that was more gasket specific

I do have two 2" wide ratchet straps to help with the primary sealing of the stove.

After I had taken the inside stuff out myself and a friend was able to carry the stove out with narry a problem.

The only concern I have right now is the broken bolt on the left side panel that hold an airtub/diverter. I will have to drill it out. Will post some pics of that later when I tackle that. I figure one bolt is not to bad. Any thoughs on using antisize on the bolts?

 

[elkimmeg]

At this point my wife shows up in the garage as I am chipping away at the old cement/sealant....."I am concerned about this thing being safe, are you sure this will work”.......sure no problem I got it all the info from the internet gulp

Why honey do you think I need to book a room and Holiday inn. You found out exactly what I described, it has been unsafe for years

Next time a post ask which stove is the best? you have the perfect answer the one rebuilt by me

No lunch break now so many questions and the energy lever and what you accomplished in one evening is amazing. Great Idea in getting the other half involved even if you get her snide
remarks. It will all be worth when she proclaims her husband rebuilt our stove

hight temp spray can paint is fine and there is no set sequence what ever is the easiest for you to do it will not effect the joints or cement

Cements or gasket cement is the same be from a squeze tube of caulking gun I use the caulking gun as much as I can the squeeze tubs are a pain to get a good bead flow

Never sieze will get burned off and probably useless stainless steel bolts work best. Remember if you do this right, it will be 12 or more years before you have to do it again
just wire brush down the parts the blow them off and paint. the paint look inside last up to the first fire anyways but now you are working with clean parts

If a missed a guestion let me know There are some gutters I have to install now work is calling

 

[elkimmeg]

I was hoping to do my rebuild as a wiki but this is better as more forum participation occured

Seaken got your ears on any suggestions tips hints? Anyone?

 

[elkimmeg]

little late now but I thought of another tip attach the connecting rods first to the top. Really gunk up the connection grove with stove cement
Place two pieces of 1/2 or strapping on the top of the stove and set the top down on them first to lineup the rods then lift a little and remove the spacers and set the top on place
you can rock it shift it and help set the surfaces and cement. I will take a tork wrench and test their settings on my stove so you do not over tighten, cast iron can be brittle
plus then you can be sure of even pressure. I forgot to tell you to check the nuts tork first

 

[struggle]

Well my box came with the seals,paint (vermont castings label no less) and the high temp sealant.

I split wood for 5 hours today and my wife called to let me know it showed up.

I will hopefully get a lot more done tomorrow and will post some pictures of the progress.

 

[elkimmeg]

Another thing I learned it is better to attqch the threaded rods to the top before installation I tried it the other way and it was too hard to line things up
then I tried to position the rods in place figuring they would just line up once the top went on Again lots of fustration
finally I attached them to the top the spwood spacer blocks allow you to see how things are linning without havine to recement the top like I did at the failed attempts with the rods
This is an old formica counter trick Once you start applying the formica to the counter Its a one shot deal using spacer sticks allows pre positioning then pull them out in suscession

 

[struggle]

Trouble in paradise. Elkimmeg I believe my stove has received the death blow. I found after cleaning all parts except for the bottom of the stove I find this.

While it does not appear cracked though the bottom of the base this for certain can not be considered safe. Soapstone stove is looking might good right now.

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2037.jpg)

More pictures will follow.

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2036.jpg)

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It now makes sense to me as the last two seasons I have noticed when cleaning the stove out that the wide plasters knife I used to scoop out the ash would hang up in a couple of places but I never made the connection that this was going on.

I am thinking Ebaying the thing off for individual parts.

It is too bad for me that I did not spend more time blowing it off before scraping everything else off.

 

[elkimmeg]

we are looking at the bottom base plate? right. You know that does not look like heat related. That damn stove was cracked somewhere during handling or shipping. I wonder what a bottom cost? I mean you are there. But even if the new stove is in the cards you gave it the old college try Great effort. I got to find out if a replacement is available. I mean if the rest is good. PM me please

 

[struggle]

I will call discountstove pn Monday and see what I can come up with. This is the kind of deal that just makes sense for me to move on to something else.


I kind of thought it looked as if maybe it was lifted from the center and that might have cracked it?

We picked it up and moved once lifting from the bottom side by hand so why it is damaged is anyones guess. The real bummer is this was that last peice to clean before reassembly.

Everything else on the stove looked very good to me.

 

[elkimmeg]

Sombody jacked that stove up with a rollaway auto jack in the center without block support. Would be my guess. I'm guessing here, there was probably a tiny crack.
but over the years with heat the crack expanded

 

[elkimmeg]

Dylan you used an intellegent approach 2/12 to spread out the weight, Some of the roll away jacks only have a 2 or 3" round center, mid spand lifting 400 plus lbs and moving or positioning it
That's What I think happened. Years of heat and cooling and the evidence is there. Its really a shame after all the work preping all and cleaning all the pieces, Having it fully dissesembled and only one broken bolt.

Hey Spike and other welders take a look gone? could a steel support plate be attached underneath welded into place?

 

[struggle]

A neighbor came over today and looked at it. He really did not seem surprised to see it that way. He operates a machine shop that services meat packing plant equipment and various things of that nature. They have propbably over 1 Mil. in machine equipment to make many things and I do think what he knows about metal is probably substantial. He has some stuff we spray (process of things) that will show if any cracks are through on the bottom. Even so I still do not think I will trust it. Everything else on the stove looks first rate in my eyes so this is really a bummer right now. I went out and cut some logs up this evening in frustration I took the axe/maul and swung it a few times. I can still split it by hand.

I am going to look around for a base plate Monday. As after spending so much time on it I really wanted to fire it back up.

That is a bummer on your deal Dylan

 

[struggle]

I measured the base with a ture metal straight edge for measuring engines and it is bowed up .087" in the center and square on the front and a little off on the back.

I im in quite as mess over this now as what I want to do with it:-/

 

[Roospike]

Trouble in paradise. Elkimmeg I believe my stove has received the death blow. I found after cleaning all parts except for the bottom of the stove I find this.

While it does not appear cracked though the bottom of the base this for certain can not be considered safe. Soapstone stove is looking might good right now.

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2037.jpg)

More pictures will follow.

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2036.jpg)

(broken link removed to http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/struggle_/DCP_2038.jpg)

It now makes sense to me as the last two seasons I have noticed when cleaning the stove out that the wide plasters knife I used to scoop out the ash would hang up in a couple of places but I never made the connection that this was going on.

I am thinking Ebaying the thing off for individual parts.

It is too bad for me that I did not spend more time blowing it off before scraping everything else off.

Are the pictures of the bottom cast plate and pictured is from the inside. No cracks from the bottom?
Is this so far off its not letting the parts line up correct ? ( bottom to side plates )

 

[elkimmeg]

Roospike is a welder looking into this, I value his feedback. I was wondering the bottom plate is flat Right? what about bolting or welding on 1/8" steel plate gunked with refactory cement
cutting enough away in the corners for the legs and using the threaded rods to bolt threw the new plate
Can you provide photo of the botton of the damaged floor plate?

 

[struggle]

Well tonight we removed the broken bolt out of the left side panel. Welded washer on the broken bolt and then a nut and heated panel area and the bolt worked out with some back-n-forth turning. Great way of getting bolts out that are considered a loss. THis was done a a neighbors machine shop.

Had him take a closer look at the base plate and he kind of thinks the bottom is a loss. The cracks do extend out from the ribs on the base plate in the different areas. It would seem logical that it would not be to long before it would eventually come through the bottom (cracks) from the heat cycling of the stove temps.

I will be making calls tomorrow for a base plate. Anyone have suggestions of where one might find one such as New old stock?? Any help would be great.

I really want to just use this stove again after spending so much time on it so far.

 

[struggle]

I ordered a new bottom for the stove. Cost $90 plus shipping. It will still be much cheaper than buying new. I will remain hopefull that this will be a great like new stove when completed. It will take about 3 weeks to get the bottom so we will be heating with the upstairs fireplace for the mean time.

This time delay will give me plenty of time to get everything else painted and preped for final assembly.

 

[struggle]

That is one draw back to this stove about the glass. We never clean it as it just does not stay clean. Just a waste of time. My wife is AOK on getting a new VC with the clean glass/cleaner burning etc etc but after you pimp it out with racks and a blower it gets quite costly. I have been watching a few auctions on Ebay and the older Vigilants in good shape do still bring decent coin so after it is refurbished we can opt for getting something out of it.

I am not really feeling to confident on the Hearthstone product's as I have read a lot of reviews on them and it seems there is a constant thing about build quality. That is something that this old Vigilant seems to not have an problems with. Woodstock gets first rate reviews.

I am really impressed about the way the castings are built with this vigilant. Edges are smooth consistent build throughout the whole unit. Only one bolt was a problem and now that it is out it should go back together with out to much fuss I hope.

 

[struggle]

Here is the current state of things all Vigilant

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[struggle]

They have a frame that goes behind the glass held on by four screws. They are in pretty good condition. The only thing else that could be dealt with on this stove is one of the adirons bolt is alomst gone. At least that can be dealt with after the stove is complete.

If that is what you mean? No clips on them.

 

[struggle]

Well today the UPS man brought a new bottom for the stove. After spending the afternoon on it all is complete. I will fire it tomorrow for a short one and do a couple more short fires after that to ensure all is well.

It went together good but I had to fuss with the left side to get it to fit just right. It just did not seem to want to fit in to start. I went over all the seals and everything looks good. Everything is down as flush as one could expect. I add some more sealer in places and ended up draining two caulk gun tubes of sealant on it.

There was enough gasket in the kit to use on the rear flue adaptor. The reinforced wire mesh griddle gasket has less than impressed me as I can see a bit of light around a few places on it. I am hopefull it will settle down after a few burns. If not I will remove it and put the regular seal on it like I removed on tear down.

I will try to post a picture in the next couple of days if I can. Looks like a busy weekend for us.

Snowed here a couple of inches today.

What temp should I restrict the first few fires to for curing the sealant?

Also the new bottom is slightly different in build as it has V-notches in the center, the floor of it just looks different. The attaching areas were all the same as was the routing for the rear panels.