Another Tall chimney venting question.

[DaveDaveDaveDaveDave]

I would like to get a pellet stove for my basement, but question if any my proposed setup(s) will work.
I have an existing clay lined flue designed for a wood stove (aprox. 7"x12"). There is nothing else using this flue. This flue is in a chimney that runs from the basement, through the center of the house, and out the roof. I would estimate the chimney top is about 28-30 feet above the basement floor.
The inlet to the flue is about 7 feet from the basement floor, and is a 6" horizontal pipe 1 -2 feel long. The chimney is block, with field stone exterior, there is nothing combustable about it. The stove would have to sit a few feet to the right of the chimney inlet, not directly in front of it. The stove would have to therefore vent up and over this few feet, then bend 90 degrees into the horizontal flue inlet with a 4" to 6" adaptor.

I could leave it at that I belive, but have been told that a 4" liner all the way up would be better. In this case there would be an additinal 90 degree bend from the horizontal flue inlet going up to the liner, and then about 23 feet of vertical liner and then a cap of some sort on top.

My questions are:
This vent setup is at or over the limit of 30' tall, is this too much?
With all the T's and other 90's and/or 45's, and short horizontals requied to do this, i am likely over the EVL I have calculated. Is this too much?

Thanks

 

[tjnamtiw]

Remember your vertical component of the EVL is 1/2 of its length or about 11.5 feet. I also think you would play hell getting 4" flex to make those bends up and into the chimney. Since your chimney is internal to the house, it won't be cold and inhibit the natural convection of heat up the chimney. I would just do what you are planning. Just keep the elbows to a minimum, which should be one at the stove, one turning into the horizontal pipe and the one built into the chimney.
I have my coal fired cook stove hooked up as you describe into a 17 foot chimney and get .15" of draft with a decent fire, hence my addition of a barometric damper. Just my opinion, but you should be OK, especially with the larger flue creating less resistance. Maybe a more knowledgeable installer will come along here.

 

[moey]

Would be a pain to clean. For me at least I would have to hire someone I dont do heights. Think long and hard if there is a way to go out the wall.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Would be a pain to clean. For me at least I would have to hire someone I dont do heights. Think long and hard if there is a way to go out the wall.

Good point but one of the accepted chores of using a chimney. It certainly won't get hogged up like with a wood stove though. Moey's right about the possibility of going out the wall if possible.

 

[batchman]

When I faced this issue with a 35' outside chimney I got a lot of opinions ranging from "re-lining is state law" to "you're going to die". My building inspector did not agree with either and since I have basic understanding of things I figured I would have a lot more coin to buy stove and fuel if I did not need the 35' stainless liner. Now my clay lined flue is 6x6 so quite a bit smaller cross section than yours, and therefore a lot closer to what is specified in the manual for my stove, but still larger than spec. The manual for my stove also specified what the draft readings should be for proper operation so I decided to buy a gauge and try it without the full liner.

Similar to you though my flue is 2' back into the chimney so what I did was add 2' of flex pipe from the masonry adapter to make the 90 degree turn "up".

Test results are showing I have no draft problems, at least when running on medium or high - still need to test "low" and "off with pipe hot". I need to get more burn time and then will open for inspection to see if I am condensing creosote somewhere along the way.

In other words you may not need a liner but hopefully you can do the due diligence to prove it to yourself. If not I guess I would suggest getting the liner to be safe and sure.

Best,
- Jeff

 

[DaveDaveDaveDaveDave]

The main reason I am choosing this location is because the chimney is a large field stone chimney that runs from basement up through two storesies and then through the roof. In other words, a huge focal point in the house. in the basement, there is a flagstone hearth in front of this chimeny, again a great focal point in the finished basement. The flue for the basement is in the far left of the chimney, hense the stove would be to the right of the flue inlet.
the majority of the house has a deck around it making venting out the side difficult.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Then go for it! Can't wait to see the pictures!

 

[DaveDaveDaveDaveDave]

tj - i am considerint the castile (which i see you have the insert version), as it appears to be a very nice looking unit (wife approved), and quadrafire comes highly recomended from my neighbor. I've seen some complaints about rattling of castiles, your opinion?

 

[tjnamtiw]

tj - i am considerint the castile (which i see you have the insert version), as it appears to be a very nice looking unit (wife approved), and quadrafire comes highly recomended from my neighbor. I've seen some complaints about rattling of castiles, your opinion?

I've never had a single rattle from mine in over 3 years and BELIEVE ME my wife would be the FIRST to point it out. I did read someone else complaining about that and it was loose sheet metal somewhere so, if that's what you get or any stove for that matter, I would go all around it gently pounding on it looking for rattles and fixing them first. The Castile IS a pretty stove (WIFE SELECTED) but remember it is a small stove. It will heat your family room nicely but don't expect it, being down in the basement, to heat the whole house. You will be able to get some heat up the stairs but the basement is not the place for a whole house heater. I'm sure some here will jump on me for that one Won't be the first time My skin's pretty thick by now.
If I had it to do over and had the floor space like you do, I'd get one of the big Englander brand stoves from AMFMenergy.com. (broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/manufacturer-refurbished-stoves.html)
The prices for the refurbished ones are great and lot of people here have had great luck with them. Full warranty is included.

 

[DaveDaveDaveDaveDave]

Ok, so if i plan on venting right into the clay flue/chimney, how would you guys recomend connecting between the stove and the 6" horizontal flue inlet? The inlet is up 5 feet and over about 3 from the stove. Also of note is that the basement ceiling (drywall) is 1 foot from the top of the 6" flue inlet. Recall the back of the stove would be in front of a field stone chimney with a stone hearth, the cieling is closest combustable thing.

I see there is a top vent kit from quadrafire that not only converts from horizontal vent out to vertical vent out but also converts from 3" to 6".
LINK: (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/7021_130.pdf) figure 16.1

If i used this, could I simply use 6" pipe to go up and over, then bend into the flue inlet? OR, am i better going with 3" or 4" and converting to 6" at the flue inlet. I have only seen double wall 3 and 4 used on pellets, so the concept of 6" in the quad manual picture is new to me. I assume double wall is requred in all cases, is this right?

 

[batchman]

To answer your vent question you need to chat with your building inspector and your insurance company.

In my situation I wound up (begrudgingly) using the double wall pellet vent pipe (4" for my stove) due to the UL listing, mostly at my insurance company's insistence - as I was similarly replacing a wood stove single-wall pipe my building inspector was not worried about double wall.

In my case I came out of stove horizontal to a T/cleanout, clocked at an angle to go to an elbow at the masonry adapter (with a long pipe and a short slip-pipe). YMMV.
- Jeff

 

[Mt Bob]

4" up adapt right at flue connection.6" uninsulated not safe for ceiling,would only do that if it was straight up.I would use 2 t's,cleaning easier.From experience,tall as you have to go,stove will not make maximum heat at top setting(usually not a big deal).I would also reccomend picking a stove that you can adjust combustion blower,when flues are talll a little bump up in speed makes stove much more user friendly.Just my thoughts and experience.Bob