Any one happy with the VC Encore Flexburn?

[Toploader]

Hi There; This is my first post here after reading with much interest and appreciation for about the last 6 months. I'm in the market for a new stove as my VC Resolute is in need of a rebuild and I'm looking for more heat than it can muster anyway so it's time. I was very happy with my Resolute even given the maintenance I needed to do over the years.

I would love to go with the VC Encore because it is the perfect size for my set up and the top loading function of the Resolute works very well for me, I use it exclusively, especially because I'm plagued with a bad back at times.

I have read all the threads here about VC stoves and all the problems with the company and the Everburn models, the Flexburn models seem a little less problematic but a few people have had difficulties. My question to the forum members, now that these stoves have been around for a few years, is: Are there any totally satisfied VC Flexburn owners out there? Any feedback good or bad would be appreciated. Thanks; Brian

 

[begreen]

If this is a priority, I would consider other top loaders like the Jotul F50 as well.

 

[webby3650]

If this is a priority, I would consider other top loaders like the Jotul F50 as well.

Agreed, or the Quad Isle Royale.
I really doubt you will find very many satisfied VC owners on here. Old stoves sure, but not any late models. The flex burn isn't much more than the old "Neverburn" that failed miserably, they just added an option for a cat. If they would go back to the old design with the cast iron internals and a cat they would be better off. They still cost a substantial amount of money to repair, but at least they lasted for many years!
If you want a trouble free stove, avoid any stove with a rear combustion system!

If you insist on a VC, do not expect the same quality piece that you currently have.

 

[jharkin]

I have seen some happy owners, and some with problems. The major change in the flex is that they replaced the fibrous ceramic refractory with a hard cast ceramic. This was a good idea in itself, but then they eliminated the iron fire back and just cast the inside rear of the stove in this material - which is prone to breakage if you toss a heavy split in carelessly.

(Note that the design needs some sort of refractory, cast iron cannot handle the high heat, up to 1700f, of the cat directly. Even old Jotul cat stoves used the fibrous ceramic everyone loves to hate)

They are trying to improve things, but not quite there yet. Bigger problem is that downdraft stoves are just inherently tricky to operate, with downdraft noncats being the worst of all.

So as much as I like VC I'd also be reluctant to reccomend one. If you want a cat stove in this size look to Woodstock, blaze king, etc.

 

[Toploader]

Thanks very much for the replies, I've read a bit about the Isle Royale, it's a tad taller than I would like for my fireplace install but I might be able to make it work. I wonder if the top load function is something that can be used as conveniently as it can with the VC stoves. I did check out the Rangley in a local store but it seemed to me that much of the fire box was set in behind the top load access door making it very difficult to use it exclusively. Having a Catalytic converter is not a priority for me, I would say top load is so for now I would pin my hopes on the Isle Royale if the VC Encore can't be recommended. Maybe I should start another thread asking just how functional the Isle Royale top load door is?

 

[begreen]

I've had both top and front loaders. Both do the job well, but as I get older I am preferring the simplicity of the front loader and the deeper firebox which allows for more loading options.

 

[Toploader]

I've had both top and front loaders. Both do the job well, but as I get older I am preferring the simplicity of the front loader and the deeper firebox which allows for more loading options.

I would prefer the simplicity of a front/side loader too but first thing in the morning when my back is stiff it's really nice to just open the top door and drop in what is needed as opposed to getting low and carefully loading the firebox. I ran a Jotul Oslo for a while and found the firebox frustratingly small and tricky to load full because that last split is always just a bit too big to get in. If I don't end up with a top loader then perhaps the f600 with it's larger firebox would be a good choice. My choices are limited because the stove pipe must run straight back horizontally from the stove. I'm still curious about the Isle Royale but none of the local suppliers stock them so I haven't been able to see for myself whether or not the top load system is versatile enough to make it a good option.

 

[begreen]

As one that has a touchy back, you have my sympathy. When it is really acting up even lifting a split can be painful.

 

[BrotherBart]

Not a cast stove but the Harman TL-300 is a steel flop-top downdraft stove that owners seem to like a lot.

 

[Toploader]

As one that has a touchy back, you have my sympathy. When it is really acting up even lifting a split can be painful.

That's true I've experienced that type of back pain a few times myself but normally it's not that bad just stiff in the morning requiring some gentle upright activity to loosen it up before I do anything involving much bending. I usually eat breakfast standing up then go off and do 8hrs of carpentry work followed by a couple hours on the tennis court so I'm a little hard on myself.

 

[Toploader]

Not a cast stove but the Harman TL-300 is a steel flop-top downdraft stove that owners seem to like a lot.

Thanks I will check that one out.

 

[Charles1981]

I'm running an encore 2in1 heating a 2000 square foot rancher. Its been working great. Only been using it 2 years though so who knows what problems may pop up. Haven't broken the combuster chamber covering either but i was aware that the "shell" design breaks easily. Just careful with the loading. The Cat works great. I am getting 6-8 hours burn time easily and the heat output is superb but I don't have a lot to compare it too as it was my first stove.

My stove and chimney installer has a 3500sq foot house and recently replaced his older VC's with a new defiant 2 in 1 upstairs and a encore 2 in 1 downstairs and didn't have anything bad to say about either one other than to be careful loading and replace gaskets every 4-5 years..

I have read all the horror stories here, but so far extremely happy with the 2in1 system.

And again it does take about 20 seconds to remove the catalyst and go non-cat if you want.

 

[Toploader]

I'm running an encore 2in1 heating a 2000 square foot rancher. Its been working great. Only been using it 2 years though so who knows what problems may pop up. Haven't broken the combuster chamber covering either but i was aware that the "shell" design breaks easily. Just careful with the loading. The Cat works great. I am getting 6-8 hours burn time easily and the heat output is superb but I don't have a lot to compare it too as it was my first stove.

My stove and chimney installer has a 3500sq foot house and recently replaced his older VC's with a new defiant 2 in 1 upstairs and a encore 2 in 1 downstairs and didn't have anything bad to say about either one other than to be careful loading and replace gaskets every 4-5 years..

I have read all the horror stories here, but so far extremely happy with the 2in1 system.

And again it does take about 20 seconds to remove the catalyst and go non-cat if you want.

Great to hear that the Encore is working out for you, I would be very happy to know these stoves are good reliable heaters and if enough people report good things then I will strongly consider having one.
I love the top loading of VC stoves but, not hearing much positive feedback, I started looking at other options and eventually went with a used Oslo because I got a great deal and having had an Oslo in the past I know they are amazing heaters: solid, simple, reliable and gorgeous. Of course the compromise for me is giving up on the top loading and the ease of loading that I had with my resolute, I also question whether the Encore would be able to keep up with the Oslo in heat output.
Thanks a lot for your input and keep us posted on the performance of your stove, I get the feeling that VC owners have mostly "run for hills".

 

[Charles1981]

I'll definitely keep everyone posted. I am worried something will go wrong but honestly in justification...there may be a few threads out there bashing recent VC but when I read them they all are pretty much the same problems a number of cracked "shell" combusters, frequent gasket replacement,

A few other posts not shedding great light on VC all involve problems that may be more related to draft and the chimney than the stove itself.

Everyone on here keeps bashing VC and i can understand being un-happy with the company being sold repeatedly, and questionable customer service...I'm sure i'll be frustrated if i break that combuster case or i can't control the draft, or god forbid something cracks (but i broke this in slowly as the directions instruct and as my stove installer suggested). But so far fingers crossed...

As far as a stove heating 2000 sq feet... its doing a bang up job right now. My wife is amazed, so is her family, and my family. They thought I was some old crazy with a screw loose converting to a wood stove but when they come to visit they can't believe how awesome the heat is and how cheap it is.

Oh well enough ranting and blabbering. I hope my encore doesn't blow up cuz it sure was pricey.....

 

[Toploader]

You are right, there is a tendency to bash but I guess it's understandable that people might be a bit leery given the past VC complaints and all the insecurities that can come with wood heating not to mention that when spending anywhere between 2 and 4 grand people want to feel confident.
No matter how good VC stoves get there will always be the finickiness of the downdraft stove and therefore user error and subsequent complaints and bad reports, I can look beyond that because I've been burning wood for 25 years and I ran an original Defiant and a resolute for much of that time and loved them. Hopefully more happy VC owners will come out of the wood work and maybe someday my Oslo will make way for an Encore.

 

[jharkin]

I wouldn't say we all ran for the hills, I still use mine and just went through a major rebuild (documented here), as does BrowningBAR, Defiant, reckless and some other members. The major issues I have heard of or seen-

• During at least one of the buyouts, warranties were not honored and owners felt betrayed
• During at least one buyout parts prices doubled for a while (i.e. $400 for a refractory, but back to normal now).
• Factory QC was pretty bad during the late 90s (but can be corrected if you are willing to rebuild - my 97 vintage is good as new now).
• The downdraft system in these stoves is much more draft sensitive so as you noticed owners just cant get away with the marginal installs that might work fine for a simple steel burn tube stove.
• The non-cat "everburn" system of the generation prior to the 2in1 is particularly hard to make work right (and I think other downdraft noncat brands like Harman are similarly tricky). Better to avoid that and stick to catalytic models from that era.
• Being a complicated design and a cemented iron stove, they just naturally have more maintenance required than steel stoves do.

So the way I see it there were/are valid concerns, but also its just that its a complicated stove that inst for everybody. If you like the looks and can deal with the quirks (as an engineer I actually enjoy some tweaking) they are a fine option. But there is no denying that if you just want cheap reliable heat there are many other options that do it for a lot less money and a lot less maintenance headache.

 

[Toploader]

I wouldn't say we all ran for the hills, I still use mine and just went through a major rebuild (documented here), as does BrowningBAR, Defiant, reckless and some other members. The major issues I have heard of or seen-

• During at least one of the buyouts, warranties were not honored and owners felt betrayed
• During at least one buyout parts prices doubled for a while (i.e. $400 for a refractory, but back to normal now).
• Factory QC was pretty bad during the late 90s (but can be corrected if you are willing to rebuild - my 97 vintage is good as new now).
• The downdraft system in these stoves is much more draft sensitive so as you noticed owners just cant get away with the marginal installs that might work fine for a simple steel burn tube stove.
• The non-cat "everburn" system of the generation prior to the 2in1 is particularly hard to make work right (and I think other downdraft noncat brands like Harman are similarly tricky). Better to avoid that and stick to catalytic models from that era.
• Being a complicated design and a cemented iron stove, they just naturally have more maintenance required than steel stoves do.

So the way I see it there were/are valid concerns, but also its just that its a complicated stove that inst for everybody. If you like the looks and can deal with the quirks (as an engineer I actually enjoy some tweaking) they are a fine option. But there is no denying that if you just want cheap reliable heat there are many other options that do it for a lot less money and a lot less maintenance headache.

I think that's a good summary and right now for me the simplicity and ease of the Oslo is very appealing but I will probably still be pulled in the direction of a VC top loader again someday.