Anybody need a boiler?

[nrcrash]

Velvet foot-surge protector

 

[nrcrash]

I agree sometimes you can over complicate things and that was my of my conserns with the lambada controls. But then I realized that I like indoor plumbing, air conditioning, color tv and I think I will enjoy my updated boiler. Rather than taking a dump in a -10 degree outhouse after watching a black and white tv and adjusting my biomass.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Well, looks like the new software didn't incorporate a bullSheetz filter . . .

I have no stock in whatever unit newbies purchase, but to say that you read the boards and based on all the problems tuning the EKO/Biomass is just pure bullSheetz. If you're not a salesman for Vigas, then you're just a rable rouser. If you want to argue, go do it in the street. Maybe we'll get to see you on COPS.

Most units bantered about in the Forum have strengths. They ALL have weaknesses. Including yours. Too bad you haven't even used it yet, so you don't know what they are yet

 

[nrcrash]

"newbies". What's this high school and u guys are gonna try dragging me outside to beat up the new kid?

 

[nrcrash]

I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings who has brand loyalty to any other brand than Vigas

Some asks about the Vigas boiler and I explained why I went with that brand. Thought I could save someone the hours I spent reading what the oldies on this site had to say about each brand.

I am sure my Vigas has shortcomings as does anything. But after talking to sales reps for biomass, Vigas and eko it seemed like the right boiler for me.

 

[stee6043]

ALWAYS storage for any type of cord wood boiler!
ALWAYS return water temperature protection for a cord wood boiler! Do a good heat loss calculation, within 10%, and try to undersize the boiler output slightly.
ALWAYS burn wood that is below 20%, or better 18% in moisture content.
Succes guaranteed.
Did I miss something?

A grossly misleading post, at best. It's unfortunate when folks come on sites like this one looking for proper information and see these types of posts as "gospel" from someone who might be in "in the know".

You will not find any highly trained boiler professionals that will be able to provide you with concrete data suggesting storage measurably improves performance or efficiency of a PROPERLY sized boiler installation. Storage is first and foremost a convenience item. It can potentially increase efficiency in those cases where an oversized boiler has been installed in a system. A properly sized and properly operated boiler does not need storage. That being said, I will agree that many boilers seem to be installed in an oversized condition without storage. This does not, however, validate the position that "all boilers need storage" because that's just not the case. It's far better to say "all boilers should be properly sized OR have storage if oversized".

Why would anyone in their right mind ever undersize a boiler on a system with storage (since you initially said we should ALWAYS have storage)? What is the logic? I've never heard such a suggestion. In fact it's the opposite of what 99% of the experienced storage users on this site would likely recommend. I'm not aware of any downside associated with oversizing a boiler on a system with thermal storage. In fact I beleive there are numerous advantages to oversizing boilers in this case. Users are able to charge storage more quickly with larger boilers potentially reducing the number of trips to the boiler during burn cycles and quite possibly reducing the overall length of time the boiler actually has to run. I have on more than one occasion wished I had a 60 as opposed to the 40. Even though the 40 is technically still oversized for my home (not taking into account storage capacity). A 60 would likely have allowed me to start my fires later in the day during normal heating season.

Just my two cents of course. I am not a heating/cooling professional.

 

[mikefrommaine]

^^^^
And in many cases stepping up to a 60 from a 40 allows you to burn longer sticks of wood. Its nice to be able to cut 24" pieces of wood instead of 18-20"

 

[velvetfoot]

This is something I, personally, didn't realize. Not to ask for any big generalizations based on limited info, no heat loss calc, and such, but would a (inside) 40, with a moderate amount of storage, do the trick for a 6-year old well-insulated 2000 ft2 colonial in my location? Thinking in terms of fossil-burning boilers, a 25 would probably be more suitable.

 

[henfruit]

Ditto to Stee. Velvet a 40 would be fine. A 25 may need to be fired more often on colder weather. Black Market boilers were bought in Europe shipped to the US then tried to sell them with out UL.They offer no warranty or customer service or parts.

 

[heaterman]

20 to 25 full cord of wood? Holy chit! I can be comfortable now with 8-10 cord in my old furnace. People around here tend to burn 5-10 cord in their owb depending on insulation, m c & wood quality. I've got a buddy that runs his 365 days a year for dhw, family of 4 good tight house @ 2500 ft, & he only uses 12 cord a year. Fills the boiler 2X a day in winter, & once every 2-3 days in summer. This is a non gasifier CB 5036 classic I think.

Please understand, I'm not trying to argue or be critical here @ all, just curious as to what I'm missing. I wouldn't spend a nickel on a boiler if I didn't think it would save loading & splitting time, & maybe it wont? A C

Nearly impossible to compare house to house numbers as they all have different heating loads and operator habits. Too many variables to say, " Joe Sixpack has a brand ZZZ owb and he burns 8 cord while Bertha Winebottom has brand AAA and she burns 14." They are different people, who burn different wood, that live in different houses, that have different heat loss characteristics, that set their thermostats differently, etc etc.

What I will say is this. Any decent gasification boiler will heat the same space using 25-40% less wood than a typical owb.

 

[hobbyheater]

A grossly misleading post, at best. It's unfortunate when folks come on sites like this one looking for proper information and see these types of posts as "gospel" from someone who might be in "in the know".

You will not find any highly trained boiler professionals that will be able to provide you with concrete data suggesting storage measurably improves performance or efficiency of a PROPERLY sized boiler installation. Storage is first and foremost a convenience item. It can potentially increase efficiency in those cases where an oversized boiler has been installed in a system. A properly sized and properly operated boiler does not need storage. That being said, I will agree that many boilers seem to be installed in an oversized condition without storage. This does not, however, validate the position that "all boilers need storage" because that's just not the case. It's far better to say "all boilers should be properly sized OR have storage if oversized".

Why would anyone in their right mind ever undersize a boiler on a system with storage (since you initially said we should ALWAYS have storage)? What is the logic? I've never heard such a suggestion. In fact it's the opposite of what 99% of the experienced storage users on this site would likely recommend. I'm not aware of any downside associated with oversizing a boiler on a system with thermal storage. In fact I beleive there are numerous advantages to oversizing boilers in this case. Users are able to charge storage more quickly with larger boilers potentially reducing the number of trips to the boiler during burn cycles and quite possibly reducing the overall length of time the boiler actually has to run. I have on more than one occasion wished I had a 60 as opposed to the 40. Even though the 40 is technically still oversized for my home (not taking into account storage capacity). A 60 would likely have allowed me to start my fires later in the day during normal heating season.

Just my two cents of course. I am not a heating/cooling professional.

The highly trained professionals- Eco , Biomass,Effecta, Tarm in their manuals all point out increased efficieny can be attained using storage .
The Properly sized boiler installation could not be a year round operation without storage !
Why would anyone in their right mind undersize a boiler? Physics. Bigger boiler larger mass in the boiler itself to heat each time you heat your storage.

 

[velvetfoot]

On the other hand, if the boiler is inside the house, that heat wouldn't be totally wasted.

 

[stee6043]

The highly trained professionals- Eco , Biomass,Effecta, Tarm in their manuals all point out increased efficieny can be attained using storage .
The Properly sized boiler installation could not be a year round operation without storage !
Why would anyone in their right mind undersize a boiler? Physics. Bigger boiler larger mass in the boiler itself to heat each time you heat your storage.

Well I was careful to use terms like properly sized and properly operated but I can understand that some will not read ALL of the words in a post and quickly chose to respond nonetheless.

I'd love to see your heat transfer/heat loss calcs that can explain how under-sizing a boiler with storage will ever in a million years provide enhanced system performance and efficiency. In your words "more mass" to heat in the boiler itself is 100% irrelevant. If you would claim it absorbs more heat on the front end of a burn cycle you would also have to concede that it will retain heat longer at the end of said cycle. Net change = 0.

I don't set out to purposely be disagreeable with anyone on this site. And I've said it a million times...I'm not an HVAC professional. But I do have more thermodynamics background than the average person and I do try to share some of what I do know from time to time.