Anyone burning a 5100i ?

[jtp10181]

Had to go out to a customers house today and I took a thermometer and IR temp run. They basically say it doesn't put out enough heat... I think they mean they can't get the room warm enough.

Anyway... I put the temp gauge on the left top side above the door, and I topped it out around 550F. My IR gun which seems to be very accurate was reading about 550F in the middle top and 500F or so on the left where the temp gauge was. The best reading I got inside the firebox was about 712F, I was hoping for more. My manager said that thing should be able to run much hotter. The wood I used was from our shop, good and dry, smaller splits. It was cut a little short for the 5100i and I also ran out so it was not packed full.

So... anyone have any numbers to compare? I have a feeling this customer will not be satisfied with my demo even though I boosted the temp in the hallway 20ft away by 3 deg in 2 hours.

Also some more info, I was checking the walls for temps as well. Ceiling near the stove was about 90F, walls near the ceiling were 72F. Walls at the bottom were 60F! I suspect major heat loss through these walls. Even the interior walls near the floor were 64F. The whole house was around 62F when we got there.

Any comments or questions welcome

 

[begreen]

Cold basement or ventilated crawlspace? I would have expected the stove to put out a lot more heat. Any thoughts on why the low temp readings?

 

[jtp10181]

As I was typing I was thinking I should have checked out the basement. The house is like 60 years old and he was talking about the old giant boiler/furnace that was removed 3 years ago. So I suspect that was in the basement. It is probably pretty cold down there and its permeating up into the walls.

The stove was putting out serious heat, standing in front of it with my hand in the path of the blower air over a foot away it felt like my skin would start burning if I left it there for very long.

 

[stoveguy13]

You should be able to bring that stove temp over 550 was it wide open?

 

[begreen]

Wait, that was 550 on the door center, right? I see up to about 650 at that location on my stove with an IR sensor.

Is this insert in an exterior chimney? Is there a block off plate? If yes, was the baffle in good shape and tight to the rear of the stove so that no secondary gas got around it?

 

[stoveguy13]

if i read correctly it was on the shelf above the door surface temp up there should be able to get higher then 550 how tallis the chimney wrapped liner? how tall is the chimney? did you take a draft reading?

 

[yukiginger]

I think the customer is being unrealistic about the capabilities of a point source heater. I suspect you are right about the floors and walls sucking away the heat. My basement is 50 F right now, so guess what my first floor floor temp. is throughout my living space (insert is on the first floor) - about 54! (Yes, those IR thermometers are handy.) Exterior walls aren't very warm either. I think you raising it 3 degrees in a couple hours is pretty good. People need to understand that it takes a while to heat up the walls and furniture in a place once they are cool. Expecting a stove or heater to do that without a method of air distribution/circulation is always a challenge. Ireally believe dealers, especially ones in colder climates, need to sell these units as supplemental heaters and inform the customer that they will be among the fortunate few if they are able to heat exclusively with them.

MarkG

 

[jtp10181]

If you guys can believe it I am a pretty inexperienced burner. I don't have one myself and don't often get to load it up and let it rip like this. This is the first time I have done so at the customers house with my IR temp gun. So, that is about what accounts for the 550 temps on the unit I feel. I probably did not leave it wide open long enough. I loaded it prob 80% full on a really hot bed of coals. Also the first two logs I put in were the customers, one of which was starting to rot and the other was soaked. I was showing him how the soaked one burned like crap. I left the start up air open for 10-15 mins and the primary air open for maybe 30 mins, maybe less. It was creeping up there to 550 and I then started playing with the air control. I probably should have let it get up there more.

The temp gauge was not on the shelf, it was on the vertical surface just above the door on the left side. The shelf on top actually has a large air gap (convection air chamber) between it and the firebox so I thought that would be a bad place for the temp gauge.

Chimney is internal to the house, about 15' tall, 6" SS flex, not insulated. We actually couldn't get any insulation from the vendor at the time of install, it was not included in the customers price, and the chimney was in great shape. The customer said he asked the mason to seal the flue off at the damper, but I have no idea if he did or not. We do not normally put in block plates unless the customers requests it. To be honest most people at the store don't even know what a block off plate is or what its purpose would be.

Ok I see people talking about draft readings all the time. Now I know basically what equipment one would need for this, but how do you do it exactly? Where do you hook the hose up to test it and how does the hose not melt? I am assuming you a low pressure magnahelic manometer.

Now Before people start bashing me about block off plates and draft testing... I have only worked here for 3 years. I have only been supervisor for 2. I have only been on this forums (well educated about wood burning) for less than 1 year. It took me last summer/fall to put together a plan for insulating the wood liners and pricing, buy in etc.... All of the guys in the field have been doing this for many years longer than me so it is a battle to change their thinking, habits and ways of doing things. I hope everyone here sees that I go about my job very professionally and take safety seriously. I also take customer service and satisfaction very serious.

Ok A little more background for the feel of how the unit is being burned. We installed it in Jan I think, or late December. The customer has already had to go on the roof and unclog the vent cap once. He thought it was the sleet, but I told him it was creosote from burning wood with too much moisture in it. He also said it started smoking back into the room a little bit recently during burning. Might be getting clogged again, I could not tell from the ground because the whole thing is coated black now. Now this is during a burn, with the door closed smoking out the gaskets. When I was there burning with mostly my wood I got NO smoke out, even when I opened the door up to poke the baffle inside.

That reminds me of something else... shortly after we got there I noticed the baffle was cocked up on one side. The stove was like 400F so I had to slide it over with the poker. The insulation blanket was also bunched up on one side. I instructed the homeowner on how to fix that after the unit cooled down. I am hoping that will help get the temps up some also, but I don't think anything will with rotten and soaking wet wood.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a repeat of what you and others keep on saying, 90% of the time the problem is bad wood. Good you caught the baffle and blanket issue, hopefully they were paying attention and will keep this in it's proper place from now on.

 

[stoveguy13]

chimney sounds short and the wood quality does not sound great the combination of the two are most likely the problem.

 

[jtp10181]

Its a ranch with a low pitch roof. Not much we can do about the chimney height. Draft was great when I used it, it was about 25F outside.

I kinda know what the problems are, bad wood and heat loss due to old old house.

I was hoping someone else with a 5100i could give me some temps they burn at.

 

[stoveguy13]

i would not close that stove off till it hit 650 750 it has a big old box if you cant get it to that the wood is most likely it the short chimney cloud be contributing to the deal as well wrapping the liner cloud help as well