Anyone heard of a Waterford 103?

[heatherd]

Hello, I'm new here and I have a stove in my house that arrived with no information. It was free. So I don't really know anything about it. the only markings I see are on the front upper left, Waterford 103. I've searched google for this and found next to nothing, other than someone selling one for $550.
Does anyone know anything about this stove? Coal? Wood? Age? Make?
Thanks a bunch for any help.
> Heather

 

[seaken]

Not sure. When we were selling the Waterford line back in the early '90s we had a 104 Mk-II. It was a small wood stove, similar to the Jotul 602 in design. Maybe the 103 is also a small wood stove? Unless it has coal grates, in which case it may support coal.

 

[webbie]

I've heard of this and seen it. Wood stove - double front doors with a relatively modern look. Some parts of it may even be double wall - pretty large in size. I think it may have taken an 8" pipe, which is a big down side. Parts may be available, but not easy (other than glass and gasket, which are readily available).

Personally, I would take a pass on it at the price.

 

[thechimneysweep]

The 103 was a wood-burning "Fireplace Stove" from the mid-80's. It had two front doors with optional glass panels (but no airwash), and was designed to be burned with the doors open for open-fire ambience, or closed for a (somewhat) controlled combustion burn. The draft control was kind of unique. Instead of a turnscrew or slider, it had a lever that could only be moved to four preset positions.

There was no baffle plate of any kind, just a built in stovepipe-style damper in the 8" flue collar. Nonetheless, this model marked Waterford's earliest attempt at high-tech secondary combustion. Incoming air would flow between the outer cast iron shell and an inner cast iron liner, then squirt out through a single row of tiny holes that spanned the tops of the side and rear liner plates just above door height. Waterford claimed these "secondary air ports" would, by injecting pre-heated air into the upper part of the firebox, cause unburned exhaust gases to ignite and provide more heat (sound familiar?). In the absence of an insulated baffle system, this may or may not have worked; all I can say is we never saw any secondary fire like that produced in today's EPA approved designs.

This fireplace / stove burned HOT (98,000 btu/hr), and had pretty extreme wall clearances: 36" rear, and 40" side to combustibles.

 

[seaken]

Wow. Okay, quite a bit different than the 104 Mk-II, which was a small stove , about 20,000 BTU/hr.

 

[heatherd]

That photo is certainly my stove. And it does burn really really hot. In fact, I'm nervous to load it up before bed because even with the air intake and the damper "closed," it rages. I may need to replace the gaskets so air doesn't go in through the front. My pipe comes out of the back and then up the chimney, not the top like the picture. And I'll go check the clearances I currently have.
How hot should I let this stove get? Is there anyway to get literature about this particular model, or is that a lost cause?

 

[fraxinus]

I think you're right to be nervous about loading up the stove before leaving it for the night. I'm well aware that many, many people do this, but I've never been comfortable with the practice. Far better, it seems to me, is to make sure there is a good bed of coals, then shut down the air intake(s). While the stove will not radiate maximum heat during the night, you'll find still hot coals. These will quickly bring the stove back up to operating temperature when you add wood.

 

[heatherd]

I checked the clearances and found that on one side the table was 30" and on the other the chest of drawers was 24"! and it was HOT! Is this a situation where I should only run it when I'm home and awake? Or maybe try to move it into the basement where there is plenty of clearance? I'm really trying not to add to the heating bills, but we (my children and I) are living in a 1850 house, and I'm at a loss of the best course of action. Especially now that I realize that the stove I have, where I have it, isn't safe. I grew up in a house with a wood stove, but my father always made sure it was safe, I just started fires, cleaned ashes and loaded wood.
Thank you for any advice.
> heather

 

[begreen]

The first thing to do is see if the stove has any leaky gaskets. They can make a stove burn much hotter than it should. A stove thermometer will also help. We don't know much about how you are burning the stove or what "hot" means. Having some actual temps will help. But until you are familiar with the stove and know it is safely installed and operating correctly, extreme caution is the best advice. You need to honor the clearances that Tom posted for the stove. Otherwise, don't burn it. Can you post a picture of the stove installation? That would help.

Moving the stove to the basement will introduce a lot of problems. The best fix would to get a modern stove with closer clearances. There are nice good heaters that can be much closer to combustibles and not be dangerous. Can you describe a bit more about the house size, the room where the stove is in and the first floor plan?

 

[ketoret]

first posting, so give me a smile...

i'm also looking at an old waterford 103 (availability of UL or EPA woodstoves here is, well, it just ain't), and with all the talk about the heat it throws out, i'm wondering if it would be a good idea to build a brick/masonry enclosure for it, both to protect the surroundings and to both moderate and prolong the heat. you can tell i'd really like a masonry stove, but that ain't here neither.

is that a good idea?

 

[begreen]

It should be ok, as long as a reasonable clearance to combustibles is still maintained outside of the masonry enclosure. I'm not sure how many days use it would get in Israel. Is this for a large home?

 

[ketoret]

yeah, well, no, not for western standards. i have a fairly open kitchen-dining room - living room area, i'd say roughly 80-100 sq meters, with fairly high ceilings (need a fan up there, for sure), with the chimney running up through our master bedroom (such as it is). right now we're using a kerosene heater, which is expensive and does not heat the house well. i run a water pipe through it to help heat up the water, which helps. we live up in the hills, so it gets chilly, and the houses are not so well insulated as in the west. like, for instance, right now i am freezing!

another question, (since you're being so helpful, for which i tip my hat to you) or perhaps you could direct me to a relevant thread: we are observant jews and do not fool with fire on the Sabbath. I mean, nothing. When the door to the stove is closed on friday evening, i won't touch it til saturday night. should i throttle down the air intake for a slower burn, or is that just going to make a messy, smoky, inefficient burn? what's my best option (aside from an electric heater on a thermostat) for keeping warm during the day? i mean, what's the best way to see my stove on friday?

thanks for your advice - i am a complete noobie in this. i'm working my way through the informational files, slowly slowly.

 

[Gooserider]

yeah, well, no, not for western standards. i have a fairly open kitchen-dining room - living room area, i'd say roughly 80-100 sq meters, with fairly high ceilings (need a fan up there, for sure), with the chimney running up through our master bedroom (such as it is). right now we're using a kerosene heater, which is expensive and does not heat the house well. i run a water pipe through it to help heat up the water, which helps. we live up in the hills, so it gets chilly, and the houses are not so well insulated as in the west. like, for instance, right now i am freezing!

another question, (since you're being so helpful, for which i tip my hat to you) or perhaps you could direct me to a relevant thread: we are observant jews and do not fool with fire on the Sabbath. I mean, nothing. When the door to the stove is closed on friday evening, i won't touch it til saturday night. should i throttle down the air intake for a slower burn, or is that just going to make a messy, smoky, inefficient burn? what's my best option (aside from an electric heater on a thermostat) for keeping warm during the day? i mean, what's the best way to see my stove on friday?

thanks for your advice - i am a complete noobie in this. i'm working my way through the informational files, slowly slowly.

Sounds like the only real solution for the Sabbath is to get a modern stove, probably a catalytic, with really long burn times (such as a Blaze King) and stuff it on Friday, then turn it down to a low level... (BTW, I know the rules prohibit MAKING fire, I thought there wasn't a problem with FEEDING an existing fire?) Otherwise, throttling down a pre-EPA or a non-cat stove to the point where it will give you a long enough burn time is probably going to lead to major smoke / creosote production.

Gooserider

 

[bcnu]

Here's your smile Ketoret. Thanks for posting your questions. Good to get something a bit different. What kind of wood do u burn?

 

[webbie]

Interesting....this is the first thread in 12 years on Sabbath burning!

I think Goose is right in that the only stove that would likely burn 24 hours is a larger firebox catalytic stove. So you will have to decide exactly where you want to compromise....the electric heater for the one day (actually less because the stove will burn 8-10 hours after sundown on fri) might end up being the best solution.

Another idea is to either purchase or "create" a stove with masonry mass that holds the heat for a number of hours afterwards. There are soapstone units made in Europe (look at Tulikivi) which have the benefit of a large mass. You can also create your own by building the stove into some sort of masonry alcove. This will soak up heat when the stove is running and then release it later. There are even special compounds (salts) that are "phase change" and store much more heat per pound...they can be built into a wall etc.

But a masonry mass, insulated from the exterior, provide a decent low cost storage mechanism.

If wood burning was a "big" thing in Israel, I suppose various solutions would be on the market. Here, for instance, is a "stove controller" that a New England inventor recently came up with:

http://www.inveninc.com

 

[thechimneysweep]

Thinking outside the box here, have you considered a "Shabbas Goy"? As I understand it, you're not allowed to instruct a non-Jew to do work for you on the Sabbath, but are allowed to benefit from the work of others not directly requested by you. What if you were to set up a regular Saturday afternoon chess game with a non-Jewish friend, and, when the fire dies down and it starts to get chilly, invite him to make himself comfortable?

 

[webbie]

Well, it's Sabbath now, so we'll have to wait til saturday night for more dialog!

 

[ketoret]

fast thinking, web. i just got back from spending shabbat in jerusalem (i work with high school students from the states).

goose - on holidays like rosh hashanna i could stuff it during the day (i think. adding to a fire is no problem - i know folks who grill on r.h.) but on shabbat, i can't fool with it at all. i mean, the biblical law is that there should be no fire burning in your habitations on shabbat, but the sages said what! eating cold food in the dark! what kind of a happy day is that! so you can do anything you want before shabbat to make shabbat nicer, even to the point of setting timers for electrical heaters, lights, etc. but during shabbat - one cannot create or really even change one's physical environment - the idea being one is of creation and not a manipulator of creation. Aren't there pellet stoves that feed automatically? That would work, but, of course, pellets are not available here....

sweep! no fair! you've been peeking in the talmud! ;-) technically, of course, you are right, but first of all, i find the idea of a shabbes goy distasteful, and second of all, outside of a few cities and towns, jews and non-jews (98% or more of whom are arabs) live in separate communities. my village is a tiny li'l thing on a hilltop, all jewish, all religious. there is an arab village about a mile or two away, but you get the idea. a little integration wouldn't hurt, but we'll have to wait until their are friendlier relations between the jews and non-jews here (quickly, in our days).

web, since a neighbor handed me a informational packet from tempcast about ten years ago, i have been non-stop dreaming about a masonry heater. I think it's just too pricey for me and although I have fascinated by stories of DIY folk who have designed and made their own, and generally speaking, I'm mostly too dumb to be afraid to try things myself, I don't want to put my family at the mercy of my amateurism. But the idea of building a masonry envelope around the stove, that's something I could do, and would probably even enjoy it. That's why I thought if the waterford puts out so much heat, it might be a good stove for me - heat up that mass all Friday, stuff the stove towards sundown, set it at a moderate burn, and hope for the best. have you seen any photos of such a masonry alcove?

my concern for the stove i've found is that it is pictured sitting outside (don't know yet for how long), and rusty. i'm going to travel up to see it next week. any advice you could give me for evaluating it would be very welcome.

thanks for your help

 

[begreen]

If you are a first time woodburner and not a tinkerer, don't bother looking at a neglected stove. Not to be unkind, but you are likely to be unexperienced and unqualified to judge whether the stove has good value or is repairable. And even if it is, who is going to do it and at what cost? Get a new stove that you can enjoy and rest peacefully at night with.

I wonder if you can get a Hearthstone from Industrias Hergom of Santander, the casting foundry in Spain where Hearthstones are made? Does anyone know if they do assembly in Spain of Hearthstones? Tom?

Also see about getting a Jotul, Franco Belge, Dovre, Nodica, Fugar, Bronpi, Edikamen, etc. or if on a tighter budget maybe one of the new Spanish steel stoves with a good secondary combustion system.

 

[ketoret]

BeGreen, unqualified is my middle name, and inexperienced is a close relative. I do have a talented welder in my community, but what I guess I really need is someone competent to evaluate the stove. And that, I don't have. I tend to agree with you that, in my position, I'd be better off with a new product. There are other con$ideration$, too, if you catch my drift. But I think it may be wise to put this waterford on hold til i find out more information about what my options are in europe. thanks for your input.

 

[Gooserider]

Well there is an article in the Hearth Wiki on evaluating used stoves, but I'm not sure how much good it would do you.

I'm actually somewhat surprised that you would need much heat in Israel - the one time I was there (business trip, I used to work for Comverse Network Systems) it was a lot warmer than New England was at the time, and the folks we were working with in Tel Aviv said it stayed pretty comfortable all year round. The small part of the country I saw (Tel Aviv and a day trip to Jerusalem) was pretty, but it looked like you might also have a problem with not having a big wood supply... How much real need for heat do you have?

Gooserider

 

[ketoret]

yeah, i saw that article on hearthwiki, and it's kind of not helpful - this simply might be an area where experience trumps.

your right about tel aviv - it's like southern florida in the winter. but i live up in the hills and it can get chill - last night was in the upper 20's - not new england, but our houses are not wrapped either. believe me, if i didnt need the heat, i'd just get me some old piece of junk to make for romantic evenings and roast marshmallows.

 

[ketoret]

man, am i clueless! my neighbor down the street has a waterford 103! i thought the photo looked familiar!

 

[intergraleevo]

Hi there. The house I'm about to move into has one of these, a Waterford 103, set into a big old fireplace.
Sounds like I won't need to open up much, a bit of a rager by all accounts!
I took quick look at it whilst viewing property - inside looks just like a flat plate - is it supposed to have a grate in the bottom for the ash to fall through into - and so I can burn coal?
Surely this plate, even with just wood will get damaged and burn through - even more so if its a very hot and quick burner?
Can i buy a grate which will fit this so that I can then burn coal in addition to wood in it?

Many thanks,

Chris

 

[begreen]

Sounds like ketoret knows of a good parts stove, though Israel is a bit far to travel.

Maybe search for stove parts in Google UK or IE?

Here is a starter:

(broken link removed to http://www.waterfordstanley.com/50_459.htm)