Anyone here modify their air-control?

[DrivenByDemons]

I'm going to get that stopper out of the way on my PE Spectrum and was wondering how many others have already done it? Did you get it so you can close it all the way or just leave it cracked a little? Did it help a lot or not really? I'm letting a LOT of heat go up that 30 ft stack. Flue temps can get up to 850-900 on a full load even with it shut down (yes, I've checked and re-checked for leaks at the door and ashpan but have found nothing).

 

[Highbeam]

Can we assume that you considered the conventional flue damper? That tall flue is your problem, it could suck a seagull off of the landfill. Once you modify your stove's emissions controls who knows what kind of liability you take on.

 

[DrivenByDemons]

I already put in a flue damper, right at the outlet of the stove. It just didn't help like I thought it would. I can still get flue temps at 850 with the air shut down and the damper fully closed. Now that would be on a below zero night but based on what I read that is still too high. I am using a tru-temp probe thermo to check with so I know I'm getting good readings. I keep reading posts with all these people getting higher stovetop temps than flue gas temps and I've NEVER had that situation. I feel like I'm wasting wood and I've had multiple people tell me to notch out that stopper.

 

[bluefrier]

If it's a new stove you will void your warranty, but if you are sure that you have no leaks and the damper
doesn't slow things down then do what you have to do for safety sake.

 

[BrotherBart]

I would use non-permanent means to block off half of the secondary air intake and try it for a few burns first. If the stove has a "boost" manifold like the Summit also try dragging the coal bed all the way to the front blocking that sucker when you load the stove. If you have seen the nicely burning PE stove in the Canadian video you will notice that dragging the coal bed all the way tightly to the front is the first thing she does.

 

[Todd]

Here is an old thread with some good info on this.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/15338/

 

[DrivenByDemons]

I would use non-permanent means to block off half of the secondary air intake and try it for a few burns first. If the stove has a "boost" manifold like the Summit also try dragging the coal bed all the way to the front blocking that sucker when you load the stove. If you have seen the nicely burning PE stove in the Canadian video you will notice that dragging the coal bed all the way tightly to the front is the first thing she does.

Have you seen the secondary air opening on a PE Spectrum? There is no friggin way to get to that thing with your hands. It's way in the back and enclosed by some sheet steel. The nice thing about the PE air controls is the primary and secondary work in tandem off one control so by notching that stopper I can close both air inputs together.

 

[stoveguy13]

where on the piep and what are you reading 850 with?

 

[DrivenByDemons]

Here is an old thread with some good info on this.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/15338/

I remember reading that thread last year. Corie was dead-set against what I'm trying to do but most of the people in that thread (including you) understood what John was trying to say in his FBS artice. This is my second season burning this stove and I know there is potential for it to be better. I tried the pipe damper already and am not happy with the results. I checked for leaks multiple times. I'm thinking this is the next step. Just looking for someone who has already done it and any tips/hints.

BTW: I checked the ash dump door on this stove over and over with a lit match looking for drafts and found none, but the design seems to be really poor. Has anyone else noticed how sloppy the seal is on that little door? I'm guesssing the 3 inches of ash in the dump chamber kind of seal it up but it seems like a weak point to me. Still, it doesn't leak so I guess it works.

 

[DrivenByDemons]

where on the piep and what are you reading 850 with?

About 20" above stove, using a tel-tru probe thermo that ranges from 200F - 1000F. The tel-tru's are supposed to be much more accurate than the Condar Probe's that most people use.

 

[stoveguy13]

so you are reading 850 flue gas temp? try putting a pipe thermo about 2-3ft up the pipe and tell us what it is reading 850 is not that high of a flue gas temp.

 

[DrivenByDemons]

so you are reading 850 flue gas temp? try putting a pipe thermo about 2-3ft up the pipe and tell us what it is reading 850 is not that high of a flue gas temp.

Alright, i'm sticking a magnetic thermo above my probe to test with. I don't think 850 is unsafe or anything, I know the pipe is good for 1000F but i'm concerned that I'm throwing 850F of heat up my chimney with my stove turned all the way down. I mean, I should have more control than that right??? I read guys like "BeGreen" who say they get 350-400F flue gas temp with a stovetop temp HIGHER than that. I've never had a stovetop HOTTER than my gas temps. I would like a better exchange of heat at my stovetop and I think by slowing these gasses down I will achive that. Am I being unrealistic??? Am I mis-reading the post by guys like BeGreen??? Someone tell me!

 

[BrotherBart]

I re-read and may have missed it twice but what is your stove top temp when the flue is running at 850?

 

[LLigetfa]

In my former home, I had too much draft for my RSF. RSF doesn't permit a damper in the flue. The dealer suggested the butterfly be changed out with one that had a smaller notch in it but I didn't want to pull the unit out to do it. The butterfly controls both primary and secondary air together but not the doghouse air (zipper). The RSF takes room air for the doghouse through a 3/8ths inch hole so I reduced the size of it to 1/4" but that caused the coals to build up too much.

In my current home I have much less draft and had to enlarge the hole for the doghouse air to 3/4" but I added a control to it to choke it down when I need to.

 

[stoveguy13]

stove top temp and stove pipe temp are normally read with mag. thermo i would guess that 850 flue gas temp is going to read about 350-450 on the pipe you are not reading the internal temp of the stove you are rteading the surface temp of it so if you read the surface temp of the pipe it will give you the correct seperation the pipe will be about 150-250 degs lower then the stove top temp.

 

[DrivenByDemons]

I re-read and may have missed it twice but what is your stove top temp when the flue is running at 850?

At the hottest point with an IR thermo, close to 600.

 

[DrivenByDemons]

stove top temp and stove pipe temp are normally read with mag. thermo i would guess that 850 flue gas temp is going to read about 350-450 on the pipe you are not reading the internal temp of the stove you are rteading the surface temp of it so if you read the surface temp of the pipe it will give you the correct seperation the pipe will be about 150-250 degs lower then the stove top temp.

I had that thought too but one of BeGreen's posts clearly state the use of a probe thermo, as do other posts I've read.

You know, I would be fine with it if someone told me I was mis-understanding all this, but many people state the flue temps lower than stovertop which tells me they have a great exchange of heat to the air around the stove. Is this not the right way to think about it???

 

[stoveguy13]

i would say from the numbers you have given it is most likely doing just fine.

 

[Todd]

When people say their stove top temps are twice the pipe temps they are talking external pipe temps not internal. I've monitored both inside pipe temps and external on single wall, and the internal is almost always a little over double the exterior temp. Still I think 850 is on the high end unless it's just at the beginning of the burn. My internals run 400-600 when the stove top is basically the same. These internal temps are taken with a Condar probe.

 

[DrivenByDemons]

When people say their stove top temps are twice the pipe temps they are talking external pipe temps not internal. I've monitored both inside pipe temps and external on single wall, and the internal is almost always a little over double the exterior temp. Still I think 850 is on the high end unless it's just at the beginning of the burn. My internals run 400-600 when the stove top is basically the same. These internal temps are taken with a Condar probe.

You get those temps when you stuff the stove full?

It's about 15F outside right now, I guarantee if I stuffed her full and charred up the load for 10 minutes or so then slowly cranked the air down, I could get my flue probe temps to 900 within 30-40 minutes even with the air control all the way down. I could get it down to 850 if I close the pipe damper all the way. That would be starting from a small coal bed raked to the very front. It would probably stay that way for about another hour before slowly dying down. I would like to get that process to slow down a little and make it last longer at lower temps. I'm thinking just a little less air from the intake would help me accomplish this.

 

[stoveguy13]

he is reading on a cat stove trying to compare the two is not an acurate comparison what are you getting for pipe temp? every stove will run diffrent and the flue gas temp will be diffrent depending on the chimney and the pipe size. if that pipe temp and stove top temp are spread by 150-250 to the lower side to the pipe you are good.

 

[Todd]

When people say their stove top temps are twice the pipe temps they are talking external pipe temps not internal. I've monitored both inside pipe temps and external on single wall, and the internal is almost always a little over double the exterior temp. Still I think 850 is on the high end unless it's just at the beginning of the burn. My internals run 400-600 when the stove top is basically the same. These internal temps are taken with a Condar probe.

You get those temps when you stuff the stove full?

It's about 15F outside right now, I guarantee if I stuffed her full and charred up the load for 10 minutes or so then slowly cranked the air down, I could get my flue probe temps to 900 within 30-40 minutes even with the air control all the way down. I could get it down to 850 if I close the pipe damper all the way. That would be starting from a small coal bed raked to the very front. It would probably stay that way for about another hour before slowly dying down. I would like to get that process to slow down a little and make it last longer at lower temps. I'm thinking just a little less air from the intake would help me accomplish this.

Yes, this is with a full load after engaging the cat. But like Stoveguy13 stated cats run a little cooler stack temps than non-cats but not much. My previous non cats burned about 50-100 degree hotter stack temps than my current stove. With that tall chimney of yours, I really don't think it would harm anything to tweak the air some.

 

[Jimbob]

I'm going to get that stopper out of the way on my PE Spectrum and was wondering how many others have already done it?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/29676/

See my post about buying a shutter ass'y from Pacific Energy (part # is in your owner manual) and modifying that. You can always put the original one back in if you don't like the results.

 

[DrivenByDemons]

When people say their stove top temps are twice the pipe temps they are talking external pipe temps not internal. I've monitored both inside pipe temps and external on single wall, and the internal is almost always a little over double the exterior temp. Still I think 850 is on the high end unless it's just at the beginning of the burn. My internals run 400-600 when the stove top is basically the same. These internal temps are taken with a Condar probe.

You get those temps when you stuff the stove full?

It's about 15F outside right now, I guarantee if I stuffed her full and charred up the load for 10 minutes or so then slowly cranked the air down, I could get my flue probe temps to 900 within 30-40 minutes even with the air control all the way down. I could get it down to 850 if I close the pipe damper all the way. That would be starting from a small coal bed raked to the very front. It would probably stay that way for about another hour before slowly dying down. I would like to get that process to slow down a little and make it last longer at lower temps. I'm thinking just a little less air from the intake would help me accomplish this.

Yes, this is with a full load after engaging the cat. But like Stoveguy13 stated cats run a little cooler stack temps than non-cats but not much. My previous non cats burned about 50-100 degree hotter stack temps than my current stove. With that tall chimney of yours, I really don't think it would harm anything to tweak the air some.

I didn't even catch that you had a cat stove. I understand that is a different beast. Thanks for the input...

 

[DrivenByDemons]

I'm going to get that stopper out of the way on my PE Spectrum and was wondering how many others have already done it?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/29676/

See my post about buying a shutter ass'y from Pacific Energy (part # is in your owner manual) and modifying that. You can always put the original one back in if you don't like the results.

I saw your post earlier this morning. I was searching/reading about this subject all day today. It's a good idea since you can put the stove back to stock very easily. Did you actually do this mod. If so, did it help in any way?