Anyone use Bricks?

[SJK1]

I posted the following in the boiler room forum but I wonder if I may be able to get more information and discussion over here. Do you all buy a lot of these compressed bricks? Do you like the bricks better than the long round "logs"? If so how many tons do you usually purchase at a time? Do you think there will be good demand in Ohio for this type of fuel?

"My firm produces from 2000 to 2500 tons per year of DRY (kiln dried) hardwood sawdust. We are exploring the possibilities of putting in compression equipment to manufacture either pucks or bricks. I believe the pucks would go more for boilers and larger industrial users for boiler type applications. I think the bricks are used more for wood stoves and retail uses.

Can anyone give me advice as to what is being consumed? Is there a good demand for these types of fuels? Can anyone help with current market pricing? Does anyone know of a firm or firms who may be interested in an arrangement to help us get the project off the ground in return for less expensive fuel?"

 

[jdinspector]

I can't speak for folks in Ohio, but I wouldn't see too much market for them in my neck of the woods. There was a recent post in either the hearth or wood shed forum about the assumption that most people on this forum would prefer to cut/split/stack their own wood if it saved them money. I think it really comes down to cost savings. Convenience isn't too much of a factor- let's face it, running a stove isn't particularly convenient, but we do it anyway. Usually, it's to save money. I suppose if you could sell your product cheaper than I could buy wood, I might be interested. That said, I get most of my wood for free, so I suppose that prices you out of my situation.

I wouldn't have any idea how many tons I would use. This year I used 5 cords, so about 10 tons of bricks?

 

[newstove]

I don't necessarily cut/split/stack my own wood to save money, but because it gives me some exercise while I feel like I am doing something good instead of letting the wood just rot, I'm using a renewable resource, cutting my dependency on foreign oil, keeping my house at a more comfortable temperature in the cold months, etc.

The saving money part is simply a bonus. ;-)

It's actually part of the reason that I chose a wood stove over a pellet stove - price of the fuel for a pellet stove is way out of line with price of fuel for a wood stove, and the wood stove has the potential for free fuel. That, and I can't run the pellet stove with no electricity.

That said, if the compressed logs were a reasonable price, I might consider them if I were to be in the market for buying wood. But, since I looked, just for grins, they aren't even close in price to what I can buy cut/stacked/delivered cordwood for. So, I see no benefit from them at all at current prices. If you are to market them, the would have to be competitive with cordwood. The whole "it is easier and less messy" thing won't fly with most people...

 

[weatherguy]

I thought the bricks burned hotter and the compressed bricks were more dense than wood so you would need less bricks to equal wood. I plan on buying a couple pallets of bricks or compressed logs so if its a good product I would buy some. I plan on getting 3-4 cords of wood and two pallets of compressed for convenience. Never a problem to have too much can always use the next season.

 

[BrotherBart]

I would use four tons a year after I get too feeble to whack trees. Which I predicted three years ago would be last year. :coolsmirk:

It is getting close though. Of course it is also getting close to considering putting something in this place that has a thermostat connected to it and the fuel comes in through the electric lines. 30 years or so of this stuff is getting as old as I am.

 

[SJK1]

My readings tell me that 1 ton of these compressed bricks have more BTU's than a cord of wood. In some instances by as much as 30% more. It looks like retail prices range from $220 to $320 per ton. I don't know how that compares if you have to buy your cords. It is certainly more than chopping a tree in your back yard.

 

[newstove]

Yup, I've seen the same stats - 1 ton will supposedly provide the heat from 1 to 1.3 cords of wood.

So, assume the high end - 1.3 cords of wood. I get cords cut/split/delivered for $150-$160 per cord today. Let's say $175 since I see a lot more ads in that range as well. So, $175 * 1.3 = $227.50. Now, I just hunted around for some of these bricks in my area. Right now, they appear to be priced in the $400-$500 per ton range. That's even more than wood pellets for wood stoves!! (Granted, I only found a few websites near me that had pricing, but that's what they were priced at.)

Their #1 reason for people using these was that it was easier and less messy than dealing with cord wood.

But, at those prices, it's 2x the price of a cord of wood. Doesn't make economical sense for me...

Now, if anyone knows anywhere in Central MA that has them at a reasonable price, post it, I may try some just to see how they work, since I'm open to the idea - just not the current economics.

Edit: I kept hunting, and found them for ~$325-$350/ton delivered - but they were far away. Normal price was $280-$300/ton, plus large delivery fees. My mistake - I confused the BIO Bricks at two sites for BIO logs - those are crazy priced. Still, most websites are stating that a ton of BIO Bricks = 1 cord of wood. So, they are about 2x priced based on that.

 

[begreen]

Compressed wood products can be desirable in urban locations where storage of wood is a problem. If it's a good quality product, they also burn cleaner which is appreciate in high population areas. If the stove is fed correctly, some highly compressed wood products can also provide a longer, burntime which is desirable.

I would guess the average residential purchase would be 2-4 tons. I'd think if you could produce and sell them for about $250/ton they should sell well. The key will be in the quality of the product and reliability of supply.

 

[BrotherBart]

At those prices I will just burn the pellet stove. When the place gets warm I can just shut it down and save fuel.

 

[Wet1]

Has you looked into selling this to the pellet industry?

 

[SJK1]

Has you looked into selling this to the pellet industry?

The pellet industry is where it is probably going now. Our thinking is that developing our own markets will offer increased margin and security. I am hoping that these types of products can be priced lower than pellets. Pellet mills are very expensive. It will be nice to have more affordable equipment that will allow for smaller players to enter the markets and for there to be increased competition so products (wood fuels) will be cheaper.

 

[Slow1]

I've burned these bricks in my stove - both BioBricks and Envi-block brands. This is my first year burning.

I find them to be acceptable, but not really any better than good hardwood. Each fuel has pros and cons. I'm generally looking for cost and convenience balance though and with the cost of these compressed bricks running at almost $300/ton delivered around here it just is too expensive for me to really burn. As others have said - if I wanted to pay that then I'd go for a pellet stove. It seems dealers price these about the same price point as pellets so if you were to sell direct somehow to keep the price lower you would do better.

I don't know your cost structure, but it seems you would be wise to look at a given market and see what the cost of wood is c/s/d per cord and then base your price off that - aim to cut it a little bit lower per ton and you may do very well indeed. Sure - those that get their own wood free or do their own splitting etc won't find it worthwhile, but they aren't likely your target market. But if you can compete price wise with those buying c/s/d cord wood you should be able to sell every bit you produce.

 

[VanLandry]

I burned about 3 1/2 pallets so far this, my first year and exclusivley using bio-bricks. I certainly think there is a market for them and in all likelyhood will purchase more in the future. It's absolutely correct to compare them to cord wood but I'm also comparing them to the price of oil as well as not using the furnace is my primary goal. I'm hoping to get in the 2 years out mentality so I can purchase green wood, stack it, and know how it's long it's been seasoning for but when it looks like the years wood my not last and it's only January I like the idea of using bio-bricks as a backup plan.

If the bio-fuels would come down considerably in price and be competitive with cordwood I think the industry would explode. I know I would be happy storing 4 pallets in my garage/basement in spring/summer and then know they will be ready to burn when the weather turns colder.

 

[SaratogaJJ]

As Slow1 very correctly pointed out, the bricks have pros and cons.

This is my first winter having burned them; I burned 2 pallets of Envi-Blocks. It is claimed that each pallet is 1 ton, although I have seen it stated that it is about 5% shy of a ton. In any event, a pallet contains 315 individual bricks each weighing, on average, about 6.5 pounds each.

I purchased two tons last spring. Under an 'early buy' program, I paid $209 per pallet. Including the delivery charge, it came to a little shy of $500. I ended up using around 90-95% of the two pallets' worth, plus approximately 1/2 cord of hardwood that I had procured via other means.

Pros:

Stacking and storing these things are way easier than cordwood. At the moment, I don't have the infrastructure to properly stack and store cordwood; hopefully, in another year or two I can build a proper shed that is easily accessible from my house. So, I stored the bricks in my garage. Took me about a little over 2 hours to stack all the bricks when they were delivered.

Little ash. These bricks burn very clean, leaving a small amount of ash. The literature says that, under ideal conditions, they should leave less than 5% ash by weight, which is less than 5 ounces per brick. That makes disposing of ash much easier.

Low moisture. Low moisture, assuming other correct inputs, means less creosote, and a more efficient burn.

Cons:

Price. Even at $209/ton, in my parts that's about 15-20% more than buying c/s/d 'seasoned' cordwood.

Heat output. The bricks burn a bit cooler than an equivalent weight of cordwood; however, they will burn a bit longer. I've loaded up the stove with four tightly packed bricks before heading to bed, and waking up 7 hours later with the stove still putting out surprisngly good heat - certainly enough coals to get the fire going again in short order.

Ignition. I have found it is very difficult to get these going from a cold start without using a generous amount of kindling, about 3/4 of a SuperCedar, and a decent amount of newspaper. They seem to work best when laying them on a nicely established bed of glowing coals.

So, in my mind, you are paying a premium that is primarily for the convenience and ease of stacking and storing - but I don't want to minimize how vastly easier it was to stack 2 pallets of Envi-blocks vs. stacking 2 cords of c/s/d cordwood. 'Cause it was really easy.

As for performance, if you are looking to get a long burn, then you pack four of them into a cube on top of an established coal bed, and you'll (I think) easily get 6.5-8 hours of good heat. If you are looking to get a hot fire, then I find mixing two or three bricks in with one or two seasoned cordwood splits can get you a nice hot fire for about 3.5-5 hours.

I'm waiting for pricing from my distributor for this year...I'm anticipating buying them again, but I've heard that prices are up because the mills from which the sawdust is derived are slower this year, creating less sawdust to make the bricks with.

 

[SJK1]

For those of you who are purchasing these – can you tell me what type of distributors you are buying them from? Are they treeing services, fireplace shops, pellet mills, lumber yards, etc.? Also, can you pick them up or do you all get them delivered? Do you hand unload them or do you use lift trucks?

 

[edthedawg]

I've been supplementing cordwood with BioBricks and EcoFirelogs (more the former the last few months, the latter earlier in the season when I couldn't get the Bio's). I have the opposite problem - no dry storage for big quantities of bricks, until I get the barn rebuilt. So I buy them by the vanload, usually 15-20 boxes/packs of them at a time, and I've only been using 2 each time I reload the stove. So I can go a week on two packs easily, or 16 packs = 2+ months the way I use them.

I get them from my local hearth / stove shop, Mainline Heating & Supply. They sell wood-fired boilers, stoves, hearth products, and solid fuels like these. It's pretty clear they do a good business w/ selling and delivering bricks & pellets.

 

[SaratogaJJ]

For those of you who are purchasing these – can you tell me what type of distributors you are buying them from? Are they treeing services, fireplace shops, pellet mills, lumber yards, etc.? Also, can you pick them up or do you all get them delivered? Do you hand unload them or do you use lift trucks?

For Envi-blocks, go to http://www.enviblocks.com/, and shoot them an e-mail, asking where there might be distributors local to your ZIP code.

My distributor shows up with a flatbed with a small forklift attached. They drop the pallets right outside my garage door; I remove the shrinkwrapping and then move the individual bricks, by hand, into the space I set aside inside the garage. Moving two pallets (630 bricks) took me approximately 2.5 hours or so.

 

[weatherguy]

For those near Central Mass I heard these were good, I havent tried them yet, may buy a few to try first.

(broken link removed)

 

[Slow1]

I don't know - at $320+ per their claimed cord equivalent those hearthwise logs seem to be even more expensive than the Biobricks and Envi-blocks (and that doesn't take delivery into consideration). I can't imagine that they can be any better - certainly not THAT much better, but perhaps I shouldn't knock them before trying them. I did try some logs that were in the round shape that claimed to burn longer (I think they were "nite logs" or something). Didn't seem to really burn all that much different and there was no way to stack them to minimize air gaps between them (i.e. go for extended burn time by loading up more in the stove as can be done with brick shapes).

 

[begreen]

I have a review of the Hearthwise Logs aka Homefire Prest-Logs here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Home_Fire_Prest_Logs/ They are super-condensed logs and their heat output is impressive. It's hard to make a direct economic comparison in the land of cheap hardwood, unless you are in an urban area, or are unable to store cords of wood. But they are a good product that really put out the heat and burn much longer than the average compressed log. Bio-Bricks take a different approach which also work well. I had the best results with them when burning as a mass. The large mass of bricks burned more slowly and had a bit more level heat output as compared to the prest-logs.

 

[Jersey Bill]

I bought a ton of Bio-Bricks 2 years ago. They burned fine for me. It was just a test, because I get my cordwood for free.
Right now Pelletsales.com is quoting a ton to my area for $280, plus shipping. Last time shipping was around $125 for the ton. 2 or 3 tons delivered would have only been slightly more.
It seems to me that the volume commodity is pellets. Bio-bricks are a sideline.
How much is the equipment to produce pellets?

 

[rphurley]

I thought the bricks burned hotter and the compressed bricks were more dense than wood so you would need less bricks to equal wood. I plan on buying a couple pallets of bricks or compressed logs so if its a good product I would buy some. I plan on getting 3-4 cords of wood and two pallets of compressed for convenience. Never a problem to have too much can always use the next season.

I bought some bricks this season to check them out. I liked their convienience, and my wife could carry a bundle in from the garage, but I did find one problem. They burn so efficiently that they are not good for overnight burns. They leave no coals to throw wood on and reignite the fire. They're great if you're sitting there and can add more before they burn to dust. I'll buy another pallett for the convienience.

 

[SJK1]

I bought a ton of Bio-Bricks 2 years ago. They burned fine for me. It was just a test, because I get my cordwood for free.
Right now Pelletsales.com is quoting a ton to my area for $280, plus shipping. Last time shipping was around $125 for the ton. 2 or 3 tons delivered would have only been slightly more.
It seems to me that the volume commodity is pellets. Bio-bricks are a sideline.
How much is the equipment to produce pellets?

Pellet machinery is 1 million+. Bio brick and puck machinery is much less. I believe we will start to see many producers begin to put their own equipment in.

 

[ControlFreak]

I'll weigh in as well: I have heated with cordwood for many years, and this year I picked up a pallet of the larger sized Envi-blocks, mostly just to experiment with them.

I found that they burn well and lead to very consistent results. That's no surprise given that they are all at the same moisture content.

Some people have said that these produce more heat than cordwood. I have found that dry hard maple will produce a much hotter fire than these blocks, though maple will not burn as long.

Some have said that these are difficult to light. These blocks are dense, so you're not going to light them without a coal bed, but they are much easier to get going than cordwood with high moisture content.

Pros: CONVENIENCE. There's less debris coming off these blocks. I could have a pallet delivered right into my garage, and I didn't have to go through the work of stacking them. They are dry.

Cons: COST, COST, COST. I paid $350 for one pallet (ton) in March, that equates to about $1/block. To get an overnight burn (9 hours), I needed to use 5-6 blocks. In my opinion, oil heat may be cheaper than this, so it makes no sense to bother with these things. The "coals" left over in the morning are very delicate, crumbly, and difficult to use to restart the next fire without a good pile of kindling to re-establish a coalbed. DON'T GET THEM WET! They expand to about double the size if exposed to moisture, and they turn into a pile of sawdust.

Conclusion: If you don't care too much about cost, and you're looking for a convenient thing to burn in your stove now and then, these are an excellent option. Just make sure that you have a good pile of kindling to get them started. Or, if you are just starting out learning how to heat with wood, or if it's your first year and you don't have a pile of firewood seasoned for more than a year, these could serve as a bridge while your firewood seasons for your second season.

 

[deck2]

When I picked up my new stove at the dealers last summer he gave me a deal($85) on a 1/2 ton of Barefoot bioblocks (6lbs each), I had wood all ready, but decided I would give them a try anyways- One thing I did notice is that when they started to burn they expanded alot-1-1.5 inches and got very close to my burn tubes(2.3 Cu Foot stove)-- But they burnt well and did put out alot of heat, but I still like real cord wood, but when I get older and tired of cuting, spliting and stacking these may be a solution to all the work and no bugs to worry about