Ash myth?

[Ashful]

This winter, I’m going to be cutting a bunch of dead ash on a buddy’s old farm. Big stuff, mostly over 30”. Hopefully no surprises, but I’ll be working as much I can in a way to anticipate them.

These are growing in the woods, which mostly means nice long trunks (usually over 50 feet) of clean straight wood, with no branches. Because of the borer life cycle, I’m going to be putting the logs up on saplings to store in 15 foot lengths for at least two years, before hauling them home. We have the borer around here, that farm is only 7 miles from my house, but I see no good reason to haul infested wood directly back to my yard. Everything I’ve read states the borer will evacuate felled wood within 2 years.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Really depressing. This is what the mountain pine beetle has been doing in BC for almost 30 years. You can drive for hours and see dead, red forests like this...

 

[Chas0218]

I burn ash and red maple exclusively and when cut live on our property and the Ash is around 30% M.C. all other hardwood species I have cut live the green M.C. is around 40%-50% so IF i was burning green wood it would be Ash.

Now when it comes to drying times I have had Ash dry (20%-22%M.C.) in less then 4 months. I let it dry for 1 summer then burn I am not burning anything above 25% I have had a few pieces on the bottom of stacks in the middle row sizzle but for the most part most they are what everyone considers dry.

Trying to dry wood below 20% is a waste of time in my climate/location. I had ash, oak, locust, and pine seasoned for 4 years and still 19% I don't waste my time trying to get under 20% if you want it lower buy kiln dried and store in humidity controlled environment (not feasible for myself and 99% of wood burners). If you live in a dry arid climate then sure dry the wood to 10% M.C. but the amount of heat from the 10% and 20% won't be noticeable nor the amount of difference in creosote build up.

Never had anyone complain about the house being cold when I'm burning Ash in the stove. I will say that depending on the stove it could be a little more picky on the M.C.

 

[Chas0218]

This winter, I’m going to be cutting a bunch of dead ash on a buddy’s old farm. Big stuff, mostly over 30”. Hopefully no surprises, but I’ll be working as much I can in a way to anticipate them.

These are growing in the woods, which mostly means nice long trunks (usually over 50 feet) of clean straight wood, with no branches. Because of the borer life cycle, I’m going to be putting the logs up on saplings to store in 15 foot lengths for at least two years, before hauling them home. We have the borer around here, that farm is only 7 miles from my house, but I see no good reason to haul infested wood directly back to my yard. Everything I’ve read states the borer will evacuate felled wood within 2 years.

The Ash I cut is the same way and plan to make some nice boards from some of it and use the knotty curvy stuff for the stove.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I have had good experience with ash. I've collected 3 trees so far. First was dead uprooted/suspended for a few years and measured at 36%. Still was sprouting buds. Second was from a tree company, probably cut as logs within 6mo was also about 36-38%. Third, a 16" DBH one just dropped in the woods last winter standing dead for awhile. Base was about 22% and top was about 18%!

All have dried to 20% in a covered rack ~9mo.

 

[MissMac]

Really depressing. This is what the mountain pine beetle has been doing in BC for almost 30 years. You can drive for hours and see dead, red forests like this...
View attachment 229662

You should see them on fire! Burn like a barrel of oil! It’s pretty amazing to watch - like a grass fire on steroids!!

 

[Montanalocal]

That picture looks like it was attacked fairly recently, as they are still standing and still have their red needles on. Take another look at that site 5 or 6 years from when that picture was taken, and it will look like this.

 

[Chas0218]

That picture looks like it was attacked fairly recently, as they are still standing and still have their red needles on. Take another look at that site 5 or 6 years from when that picture was taken, and it will look like this.

View attachment 229934

Are you guys allowed to harvest any of the wood?

 

[Montanalocal]

" Are you guys allowed to harvest any of the wood?"


Yes, we can harvest in the western states on Forest Service land with a nominal cost Forest Service firewood permit. Most of what I cut is on neighbors private land.

 

[Chas0218]

" Are you guys allowed to harvest any of the wood?"


Yes, we can harvest in the western states on Forest Service land with a nominal cost Forest Service firewood permit. Most of what I cut is on neighbors private land.

Nice, obviously not free firewood but some that will be drier than the rest. You guys have much for hardwoods out there or mostly conifers?

 

[Montanalocal]

It is mostly conifers around here, for the most part the only other native tree is Quaking Aspen down in the lower wetter areas, and a few Cottonwoods. The only reason I would cut a Quaking Aspen is because they are very flexible and tend to fall over in a heavy wet snow storm when they still have their leaves on and block the roads. They actually are good firewood when they dry out. The only thing I have around that could be called a hardwood is the planted boulevard trees in town which tend to be mostly all Green Ash. I try to follow the tree trimming crews around and get a few loads for overnight burns. We do not yet have the EAB, but I can only imagine how bare our city streets will look when it finally gets here.

 

[kennyp2339]

I'll be dropping 5 or 6 live ashes once the leafs fall off this fall, I will be sure to document the moisture content of the wood for you guys. I figure its safer to drop live tree's then dead tree's, most of the ash's are showing some sort of distress, lots of seeds on the one tree, and thinning canopies on all the rest.

 

[Chas0218]

It is mostly conifers around here, for the most part the only other native tree is Quaking Aspen down in the lower wetter areas, and a few Cottonwoods. The only reason I would cut a Quaking Aspen is because they are very flexible and tend to fall over in a heavy wet snow storm when they still have their leaves on and block the roads. They actually are good firewood when they dry out. The only thing I have around that could be called a hardwood is the planted boulevard trees in town which tend to be mostly all Green Ash. I try to follow the tree trimming crews around and get a few loads for overnight burns. We do not yet have the EAB, but I can only imagine how bare our city streets will look when it finally gets here.

I have a bunch of aspen on our property they are similar to poplar but stink to high heaven when cut. I have been clearing them out in an area to open up our backyard view. We live on a hill and they grow like weeds. I plan to mill them and maybe use for furring strips when I build my barn. They grow really straight and usually pretty tall.

 

[Sodbuster]

Sure, but be careful cutting into old dead ash. Several of the folks (Michigan, Ohio) who have had EAB ash standing dead more than a year or three have reported dangerous unpredictable behavior, cutting into ash that’s been standing dead for more than a year. A few frightening stories, which conjure up bad images of what could happen, when we go to put a saw into a standing dead tree.

Ashful, could you elaborate on the dangers? I start cutting after the first killing frost, and it's all dead, barkless Ash. We haven't had a live Ash tree around here in 10 years. I've always found the tops to be dry enough to burn right away at about 17%, but the bottom 8 feet or so is still too wet to burn.

 

[Chas0218]

Ashful, could you elaborate on the dangers? I start cutting after the first killing frost, and it's all dead, barkless Ash. We haven't had a live Ash tree around here in 10 years. I've always found the tops to be dry enough to burn right away at about 17%, but the bottom 8 feet or so is still too wet to burn.

The only issue I have had with standing dead ash are the hollow ones or rotted centers. I do my notch as always but usually not deep enough to get into the dead wood. Once I start making my felling cut I find out quick the center is rotted. Usually she starts to fall well before I get half way. At that point I bail and get away fast. Rotted centers are really unpredictable and I would like to be around a few more years.

 

[MissMac]

Ashful, could you elaborate on the dangers? I start cutting after the first killing frost, and it's all dead, barkless Ash. We haven't had a live Ash tree around here in 10 years. I've always found the tops to be dry enough to burn right away at about 17%, but the bottom 8 feet or so is still too wet to burn.

I think Montanlocal pretty much described the danger a few posts ago. When you’re felling a tree, the hingewood that you leave is what controls the tree as it falls to the ground. You can leave more on one side to help steer a tree one way or the other etc. However, when you’re cutting into trees with rotten boles, especially down on the butt of the log, your hingewood may be punky, and therefore, while you’re in the process of cutting it, it can fall prematurely, barber chair, sit down on your bar, or spin off the stump in any direction quite quickly and unpredictably, and there’s not much you’ll be able to do about it once it starts to go. So you just have to be extra cautious, and know this when you’re going in to cut rotten trees. Also, if the tree is really dead, including up in the crown, sometimes the vibrations from the saw, or the initial movement of the tree starting to drop can snap off large pieces up in the crown of the tree, which can pick you off while you’re on the saw. Widow makers are very dangerous.

 

[Ashful]

I think Montanlocal pretty much described the danger a few posts ago. When you’re felling a tree, the hingewood that you leave is what controls the tree as it falls to the ground. You can leave more on one side to help steer a tree one way or the other etc. However, when you’re cutting into trees with rotten boles, especially down on the butt of the log, your hingewood may be punky, and therefore, while you’re in the process of cutting it, it can fall prematurely, barber chair, sit down on your bar, or spin off the stump in any direction quite quickly and unpredictably, and there’s not much you’ll be able to do about it once it starts to go. So you just have to be extra cautious, and know this when you’re going in to cut rotten trees. Also, if the tree is really dead, including up in the crown, sometimes the vibrations from the saw, or the initial movement of the tree starting to drop can snap off large pieces up in the crown of the tree, which can pick you off while you’re on the saw. Widow makers are very dangerous.

You nailed it. Unfortunately the posts to which I was referring were from members who were deleted in the great house cleaning of 2013, when the forum went thru a bit of turmoil.

 

[kennyp2339]

Unfortunately the posts to which I was referring were from members who were deleted in the great house cleaning of 2013

Ahhh, miss the old pallet pete threads

 

[blades]

more like thw 1860's north south crisis

 

[Sodbuster]

I think Montanlocal pretty much described the danger a few posts ago. When you’re felling a tree, the hingewood that you leave is what controls the tree as it falls to the ground. You can leave more on one side to help steer a tree one way or the other etc. However, when you’re cutting into trees with rotten boles, especially down on the butt of the log, your hingewood may be punky, and therefore, while you’re in the process of cutting it, it can fall prematurely, barber chair, sit down on your bar, or spin off the stump in any direction quite quickly and unpredictably, and there’s not much you’ll be able to do about it once it starts to go. So you just have to be extra cautious, and know this when you’re going in to cut rotten trees. Also, if the tree is really dead, including up in the crown, sometimes the vibrations from the saw, or the initial movement of the tree starting to drop can snap off large pieces up in the crown of the tree, which can pick you off while you’re on the saw. Widow makers are very dangerous.

Thanks for the info, I think, I'll cut them partially, then pull them over with the tractor and long chain.

 

[kennyp2339]

then pull them over with the tractor and long chain.

If you have the equipment, the out it to work! I love using my tractor for things, even things that I don't need to use it for, its just fun running the machine and learning its tolerances.

 

[Ashful]

If you have the equipment, the out it to work! I love using my tractor for things, even things that I don't need to use it for, its just fun running the machine and learning its tolerances.

 

[Bushels20]

Haha!