Ash or Hickory?

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golfandwoodnut

Minister of Fire
I will post a picture tomorrow,unless this is an obvious question. Do Ash trees get nuts? I have some trees that look just like Ash trees but are full of nuts. I know this is not a shag bark hickory because the bark looks like Ash, but I did not think Ash trees got nuts. The leaves look the same to me.
 

smokinj

Minister of Fire
Aug 11, 2008
15,980
Anderson, Indiana
GolfandWoodNut said:
I will post a picture tomorrow,unless this is an obvious question. Do Ash trees get nuts? I have some trees that look just like Ash trees but are full of nuts. I know this is not a shag bark hickory because the bark looks like Ash, but I did not think Ash trees got nuts. The leaves look the same to me.

Pignut hickory, Or if the nuts are larger and green could be walnut.
 

golfandwoodnut

Minister of Fire
Thanks Smokin, the nuts are not large enough for walnut, but they are green casings and when they dry become brown. I will research Pignut. That will be good in away because I was afraid I would lose all the trees to the ash borer.
 

smokinj

Minister of Fire
Aug 11, 2008
15,980
Anderson, Indiana
GolfandWoodNut said:
Thanks Smokin, the nuts are not large enough for walnut, but they are green casings and when they dry become brown. I will research Pignut. That will be good in away because I was afraid I would lose all the trees to the ash borer.

small and looks like 4 piece's to the shell is pig-nut.
 

golfandwoodnut

Minister of Fire
I never knew how many kinds of Hickory there were. This might be a Bitternut Hickory, does not look like Pignut. What do you guys think. You can see how similiar the leef looks to Ash and the Bark does too.
 

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smokinj

Minister of Fire
Aug 11, 2008
15,980
Anderson, Indiana
GolfandWoodNut said:
I never knew how many kinds of Hickory there were. This might be a Bitternut Hickory, does not look like Pignut. What do you guys think. You can see how similiar the leef looks to Ash and the Bark does too.


LOL Bingo great score! pignut.
 

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Danno77

Minister of Fire
Oct 27, 2008
5,008
Hamilton, IL
I thought Bitternut Hickory and Pignut Hickory were the one and same......

edit: and yes, that's what it looks like to me....
 

golfandwoodnut

Minister of Fire
This got more interesting the more I researched it. No wonder you can mistake it for Ash (see Picture). Here is what an article said

"The light gray bark of Bitternut Hickory is the smoothest of the Hickories, and has a sinewy, muscled, sometimes twisted character. With age, it develops interlacing ridges and shallow furrows that may cause it to be mistakenly identified as an ash (which also has compound leaves, but they are opposite, rather than alternate). Bitternut Hickory never develops the peeling character of Shagbark or Shellbark Hickories"
 

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golfandwoodnut

Minister of Fire
By the way the Pignut and BitterNut do have different nuts. Although some people do call them all Pignut (there are something like 14 different Hickories in the US). L learned more about Hickory than I ever cared to know. The Pignut is more Pear Shaped, the Bitternut is like in my picture. Here is a link if you want to see the different nuts, compliments of gofandwoodnut.
http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/pages/carya-fruits.htm
 

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Danno77

Minister of Fire
Oct 27, 2008
5,008
Hamilton, IL

golfandwoodnut

Minister of Fire
I saw that link too, I think you got that one before I got the other link posted. I guess not matter what, it is a Hickory just like a Black Oak is a Red Oak. Also if you notice the bark in Smokinjays picture looks nothing like the Bitternut bark (atleast as I am calling it now certainly I am not the expert).
 

smokinj

Minister of Fire
Aug 11, 2008
15,980
Anderson, Indiana

Backwoods Savage

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2007
27,811
Michigan
Speaking of hickory, for years I've hated the fact that most of the hickory and walnut trees around our area have been cut down. There are very few left. We do have some young hickory (shag bark) in our woods but don't see a whole lot more. However, last weekend on my bike ride I came upon a farm that many years ago cleared their ditches and fence lines of trees but not the trees are growing again. There are a pastel of young hickory trees! I will talk to him as I know him and hopefully he won't cut those beautiful trees.
 

ChrisNJ

Feeling the Heat
Sep 25, 2009
380
Burlington County
Love the pic with all the nuts as I recall seeing most of them in my woodlands travels yet never cared to identify them, getting a hankering to head out into the woods now with my id book and start learning to id better.
 

WOODBUTCHER

Minister of Fire
We have some Pignut Hickory here in CT, but Shagbark is more common.
Some on my pics if that helps you out.

WoodButcher
 

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bsearcey

New Member
Oct 7, 2009
181
Central VA
I know you already know what you have, but an easy way of telling the difference between ash and hickory is the leaf arrangment. An ash has opposite leaf arrangment and hickorys are alternate. Think MAD-V (Maple, Ash, Dogwood, Viburnum) all have opposite leaf arrangment (except for alternate leaf dogwood). Leaf arrangment is one of the first thing I look at when identifying a tree.
 

golfandwoodnut

Minister of Fire
bsearcey said:
I know you already know what you have, but an easy way of telling the difference between ash and hickory is the leaf arrangment. An ash has opposite leaf arrangment and hickorys are alternate. Think MAD-V (Maple, Ash, Dogwood, Viburnum) all have opposite leaf arrangment (except for alternate leaf dogwood). Leaf arrangment is one of the first thing I look at when identifying a tree.
Bsearcey I am not following, alternate versue opposite. The leaves look the same to me.
 

rwh442

Member
Nov 18, 2008
152
Southeast Indiana
Hickories have an opposite leaf arrrangement.

The shagbark hickories I have in this woods all have 5 leaves - 4 opposite and one in the center.

The pignut hickories, on the other hand, have 7 leaves - 6 opposite and one in the center. They do look similar to Ash, even the bark.

Photos of both of these leaf arrangements were shown earlier in this thread.
 

bsearcey

New Member
Oct 7, 2009
181
Central VA
Rob H said:
Hickories have an opposite leaf arrrangement.

The shagbark hickories I have in this woods all have 5 leaves - 4 opposite and one in the center.

The pignut hickories, on the other hand, have 7 leaves - 6 opposite and one in the center. They do look similar to Ash, even the bark.

Photos of both of these leaf arrangements were shown earlier in this thread.

What you are thinking is the leaf is actually the leaflet. All five-seven of the leaflets together are the leaf. It is a pinnately compound leaf. The leafs are alternately arranged along the twig.

Here is a fact sheet for shagbark from the Virginia Tech dendrology website.

http://www.dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=20

Ashes have pinnately compound leave also, but where the leafs are attached to the twig directly across from each other.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=46

Here is a diagram showing leaf arrangment.

http://forestry.about.com/od/forest...-Tree-Gallery/Opposite-or-Alternate-Twigs.htm
 

Battenkiller

Minister of Fire
Nov 26, 2009
3,739
Just Outside the Blue Line
GolfandWoodNut said:
Also if you notice the bark in Smokinjays picture looks nothing like the Bitternut bark

I don't know, but what we call bitternut around here has bark that looks a lot like the pic SJ posted. Maybe we have pignut? I've never seen the leaves or nuts, only the wood. Whatever kind of hickory it is, it ain't shagbark and it's damn good firewood. Right up there with shagbark IMO.
 

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DBoon

Minister of Fire
Jan 14, 2009
1,253
Central NY
The easiest way to tell a Pignut Hickory from a Bitternut Hickory is to crack the nut and eat the nutmeat. Bitternut Hickories will taste like they are loaded with quinine - have a glass of something sweet nearby that you can drink after this test. Pignut hickories nuts are very small, and don't have the bitter taste.

Let us know what the results of your identification is.
 

ANeat

New Member
Jul 2, 2010
298
SW Ohio
Do pignut "nuts" taste like pork?? :lol:
 

Nixon

Minister of Fire
Aug 6, 2008
698
West Sunbury ,Pa.
ANeat said:
Do pignut "nuts" taste like pork?? :lol:
Yep ! Pignut tastes like Pork , Bitternut is bitter ,and shag bark tastes like Shag for lack of a word that won't get Me banned . :)
 
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