Ash pan removal

[Harry Mo]

Hello everyone I am new here and have a question pertaining to my used Englander no 30 I purchased. The question is this, would it be ok to leave the ash pan out of the stove permanently because I seenm to have a better fire that way. The stove is in my basement and I am considering adding an Oak but thought I would try this first

 

[begreen]

Leaving it out should not make a difference. If it definitely does then it would be good to figure out why. One concern with leaving it out is whether it affects hearth heating and changes the tested hearth insulation requirement.

 

[Harry Mo]

My floor is concrete so heat shouldn’t be a concern. I just feel I should be getting a better burn than I am because it seems to take too long to get going and also when it burns down to coals it is a dull embered coal so I don’t know if it is too short of chimney or not enough air going into the stove or maybe it is burning fine I’m not really sure. One thing I know for certain is that the wood is plenty dry so that isn’t an issue

 

[Harry Mo]

Also the outdoor temperature was high forties when I started it so I’m not sure how much of a factor that temperature is for a good draft

 

[begreen]

It could be draft-related, but it's unlikely the ashpan has anything to do with the combustion characteristics. One thing that will affect the burn is the ash bed. Is there about 1" of ash on the firebox floor? That help insulate the coals which lets them burn hotter.

Can you describe in detail the flue system on the stove from flue collar to chimney cap? Is it 6" all the way? Any elbows? How tall?

 

[Harry Mo]

I will take some pictures when I get home of the pipe layout and no to the ash question I have started from scratch with a clean firebox when I get home in the evening

 

[begreen]

Try to keep an inch of ash in the firebox. The fire will burn better and longer.

 

[Harry Mo]

Ok and here are some pictures it is a little more than 18 ft and I know it’s not above the peak but don’t really think that is affecting draft. Also an 18” piece horizontal

 

[Harry Mo]

Does this seem like sufficient draft? The door is cracked and it has a good drawing sound and I also don’t have any issues with dirty glass. The thing that has me wondering if it could be burning better is after the wood burns down it has the dull color coals and not bright and hot also the wood looks like it is charcoal.

 

[Bad LP]

I'd be more concerned about the clearance to combustibles 1st then the lack of proper height.

All that concrete is sucking your heat up like a sponge.

 

[Harry Mo]

I'd be more concerned about the clearance to combustibles 1st then the lack of proper height.

All that concrete is sucking your heat up like a sponge.

I’m ok with the concrete issue because I only use the heat down here and I have no choice really because I get water in the basement. The combustibles I check very often with the laser thermometer and everything is right around the 100 degree mark and that’s when the stove is at 600. Also my flue temp about a foot above the stove never gets above 450 surface if that’s acceptable

 

[bholler]

I’m ok with the concrete issue because I only use the heat down here and I have no choice really because I get water in the basement. The combustibles I check very often with the laser thermometer and everything is right around the 100 degree mark and that’s when the stove is at 600. Also my flue temp about a foot above the stove never gets above 450 surface if that’s acceptable

Your chimney is to short and your stove pipe is way to close to the floor joists. It is very unsafe.

How do you know your wood is dry?

 

[Harry Mo]

Your chimney is to short and your stove pipe is way to close to the floor joists. It is very unsafe.

How do you know your wood is dry?

Because it doesn’t bubble or sizzle after in the stove and it is over 2 years of being cut stacked and split also the moisture meter says it is. How much more pipe should I have? I guess I’ll have to get double wall pipe because I can’t change the set up

 

[bholler]

Because it doesn’t bubble or sizzle after in the stove and it is over 2 years of being cut stacked and split also the moisture meter says it is. How much more pipe should I have? I guess I’ll have to get double wall pipe because I can’t change the set up

Ok it sounds like your wood is pretty good. Your chimney needs to be 2 feet higher than anything within 10 feet. By looking at your pics I would guess 4 to 5 feet. Even with double wall it may be to close. Most need 9" above the pipe

 

[Harry Mo]

Ok it sounds like your wood is pretty good. Your chimney needs to be 2 feet higher than anything within 10 feet. By looking at your pics I would guess 4 to 5 feet. Even with double wall it may be to close. Most need 9" above the pipe

The area where the black single wall stove pipe goes into the double wall only gets up to about 200 degrees and I monitor it often and the hoist is only warm to the touch. The chimney is deceiving because right now in is about a foot below the peak so a 3 ft should work. Here is the result of a burn 4 hours after putting 3 fair size pieces in

 

[bholler]

The area where the black single wall stove pipe goes into the double wall only gets up to about 200 degrees and I monitor it often and the hoist is only warm to the touch. The chimney is deceiving because right now in is about a foot below the peak so a 3 ft should work but I’m not sure why that will make that much of a difference

Well if the surface of the single wall pipe tops out at 200 you are going to have massive creosote problems. It needs to be close to double that on startup and then cruise around 250.

Your pipe is way to close and it is extremely dangerous no matter how often you check the temp.


Yes if it is currently 1' below the peak 3' should be right. And yes 3 feet can add allot of draft especially when it gets it to the proper height in reference to it's surroundings.

 

[Harry Mo]

Well if the surface of the single wall pipe tops out at 200 you are going to have massive creosote problems. It needs to be close to double that on startup and then cruise around 250.

Your pipe is way to close and it is extremely dangerous no matter how often you check the temp.


Yes if it is currently 1' below the peak 3' should be right. And yes 3 feet can add allot of draft especially when it gets it to the proper height in reference to it's surroundings.

Why is it not getting to that temperature? Will the 3 ft make the difference and should I add an Oak or won’t that help. My single wall pipe does get to near 500 with a fresh load or higher depending on how long I fire it hard but cruises at close to 300 for the first 2 feet but by the time it gets to the double wall it drops to 250 or so and then lower as the fire goes along

 

[bholler]

Why is it not getting to that temperature? Will the 3 ft make the difference and should I add an Oak or won’t that help

Adding 3' may do it. What happens if you open a door or window near the stove? With the clear gaps around the pipe I can't imagine it is starving for air. It doesn't look like you can do an oak anyway because the stove is below grade. Unless the other side of the house is a walkout.

 

[Harry Mo]

Adding 3' may do it. What happens if you open a door or window near the stove? With the clear gaps around the pipe I can't imagine it is starving for air. It doesn't look like you can do an oak anyway because the stove is below grade. Unless the other side of the house is a walkout.

You are correct it is below grade and I thought I could cut a circle out in the steel to hook one up I didn’t know you had to be above grade and with the gap around the pipe I wasn’t sure if that was enough air considering the size of the hole for the fresh air kit

 

[bholler]

You are correct it is below grade and I thought I could cut a circle out in the steel to hook one up I didn’t know you had to be above grade and with the gap around the pipe I wasn’t sure if that was enough air considering the size of the hole for the fresh air kit

An oak cannot run up from the stove. I am sure that gap around the pipe adds up to the volume of the 4" intake.

 

[Harry Mo]

An oak cannot run up from the stove. I am sure that gap around the pipe adds up to the volume of the 4" intake.

Ok I will start with the 3 ft section and if the oak can’t run up hill wouldn’t the location of the gap have the same outcome? How do these coal look,are they the way they should be or is my concern of the charred looking wood warranted?

 

[Harry Mo]

Ok I will start with the 3 ft section and if the oak can’t run up hill wouldn’t the location of the gap have the same outcome? How do these coal look,are they the way they should be or is my concern of the charred looking wood warranted?

 

[bholler]

Ok I will start with the 3 ft section and if the oak can’t run up hill wouldn’t the location of the gap have the same outcome? How do these coal look,are they the way they should be or is my concern of the charred looking wood warranted?

No those gaps won't cause the same issues of reversing draft because it is not hooked directly to the stove

 

[bholler]

I don't really understand what your concerns with the coals are. They just look like coals to me

 

[Harry Mo]

I don't really understand what your concerns with the coals are. They just look like coals to me

I would hope for them all to be glowing red and not have so much charcoal looking stuff. Guess that is what you have to deal with when you don’t have grates and the air coming in from underneath