Ashford 30 Smoke Smell, again

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
688
Eastern Long Island NY
And evidently you keep quite detailed records too - or you have a memory that deserves to be examined for its exceptional capabilities
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
5,198
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
And evidently you keep quite detailed records too - or you have a memory that deserves to be examined for its exceptional capabilities
When I have a customer with a problem, whether it their fault or not, every single interaction and every single action taken gets documented.

When the person who has been dealing with the issue is on vacation, anyone else can read the notes and step right in. When the parts vendor needs the original purchase order for the lot in question, there it is. In the (very rare) case that the customer makes the claim that nobody wanted to help them.... it's all documented.

Sometimes it's a little bit of extra paperwork, but some people just reflexively claim that nobody has ever done anything to help them. At that point, instead of saying "this lady is crazy and I'm done with her", you can read off her file and recalibrate her back to reality.

It results in better outcomes for everyone, and I imagine it's standard practice in a lot of businesses.
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
First, I remember anytime a customer has a problem with our products. The OP was very friendly and cooperative and appreciative.

Second, I have been tested and confirmed to have an acute memory. It freaks out my 82 year old mother that I recall all incidents from age 3 and older. My father served 30 years in the Airforce. I was present in DC when the caisson traveled down cobble stones, and not a peep from the crowd as JFK's casket moved down the street. I giggled a tiny bit and my father pressed his thumbs into my calfs. Afterwards he asked why I giggled...I said they had the boots backwards in the stirrups. He explained the lost rider and I never forgot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stoveliker

fire_man

Minister of Fire
Feb 6, 2009
2,414
North Eastern MA
First, I remember anytime a customer has a problem with our products. The OP was very friendly and cooperative and appreciative.

Second, I have been tested and confirmed to have an acute memory. It freaks out my 82 year old mother that I recall all incidents from age 3 and older. My father served 30 years in the Airforce. I was present in DC when the caisson traveled down cobble stones, and not a peep from the crowd as JFK's casket moved down the street. I giggled a tiny bit and my father pressed his thumbs into my calfs. Afterwards he asked why I giggled...I said they had the boots backwards in the stirrups. He explained the lost rider and I never forgot.
What was the brand of the first Whiskey you ever tried?
Ha! Bet you can't remember that!:)
 
Last edited:

BKVP

Minister of Fire
First, I remember anytime a customer has a problem with our products. The OP was very friendly and cooperative and appreciative.

Second, I have been tested and confirmed to have an acute memory. It freaks out my 82 year old mother that I recall all incidents from age 3 and older. My father served 30 years in the Airforce. I was present in DC when the caisson traveled down cobble stones, and not a peep from the crowd as JFK's casket moved down the street. I giggled a tiny bit and my father pressed his thumbs into my calfs. Afterwards he asked why I giggled...I said they had the boots backwards in the stirrups. He explained the lost rider and I never forgot.
What was the brand of the first Whiskey you ever tried?
Ha! Bet you can't remember that!:)
Oh buddy.....Cal Poly Pomona, 1981 in the student bar "Blazing Saddles" (yes we had a bar by that name) Steven Ford (Gerald's son) and others all sitting around. Everyone had a beer as the hard stuff wasn't permitted. My roommate David (2 roommates both David) opens a flask. Say' try this, I drank the entire flask in one continued gulp.....that was the best Jameson I ever had!
 
  • Wow
Reactions: stoveliker

fire_man

Minister of Fire
Feb 6, 2009
2,414
North Eastern MA
Oh buddy.....Cal Poly Pomona, 1981 in the student bar "Blazing Saddles" (yes we had a bar by that name) Steven Ford (Gerald's son) and others all sitting around. Everyone had a beer as the hard stuff wasn't permitted. My roommate David (2 roommates both David) opens a flask. Say' try this, I drank the entire flask in one continued gulp.....that was the best Jameson I ever had!
Wow talk about a photographic memory :eek: I'm lucky if I remember if I fed the dog.

This has been an interesting thread. These smoke smell problems can be super elusive.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: stoveliker

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
769
Bellingham, WA
When we were first contacted about this issue we requested images of the stove and installation. This is SOP. We made contact and immediately asked that the stove stop being used as it was not installed to the proper clearances. As we recall, the back of the stove was nearly against a combustible wall. The dealer did not install the stove correctly.

The dealer moved the stove away from the combustible surface and added correcting elbows for a completed vertical termination. The smoke smell persisted. We then had the dealer examine the stove and installation and could find no problems. The stove was removed, crated and returned to our factory.

We were in the middle of multiple test runs for the new KE40 but stopped and began working on a solution for this unit,. We cleaned up the stove, connected to one of three chimney systems we operate in our facility. The stove was burned repeatedly for several fires without any smoke smell whatsoever. This first chimney is attached to a dilution tunnel, where we can control the influence of draft. Even when slowed significantly, we could not detect a smoke smell.

Next, we pulled the stove, replaced all gaskets, glass gasket, door and bypass. We then connected the stove to a normally (externally) aspirated chimney. The stove was then fired under high, medium and low burns. We repeated the process, without any detection of smoke smell.

It should be noted that the second chimney system is in an isolated room, measuring 30 x 20. With multiple windows and additional control measures and equipment. After several days of continued testing, gasket tensions were verified, stove cleaned and detailed and returned to the dealer.

We did in fact step up. It is unfortunate the stove has not worked out for your home and for that we apologize, but we were unable to find any problem with the stove itself. We appreciate the patience and cordial manner in which the OP handled himself during the process and we did all we could do to verify it was not an issue with the stove itself.

BKVP
If you're responding to my post, everything you've written is truthful. In the beginning you guys really stepped up to help solve the problem. Ultimately the problem wasn't the stove.

That said, you had a dealer who really didn't know what he was doing as evidenced by the fact that he couldn't fix the problem and we lived with smoke for a year. Then we called in a chimney sweep and he immediately saw the problem and cleared it right up. In your test room the stove worked fine but in our family room it leaked. He added to the gasket in one corner where the leak was occurring and that was the end of it until the other day, when it began leaking again. Five years later, it's more than fair to expect to replace the gasket. I called Blaze King and they offered to send a 1 inch gasket, to replace the 7/8 incher that was used last time. So again, kudos to Blaze King for excellent customer service.

My gripe is that when the dealer couldn't find or fix the problem, you stopped returning my calls. My assumption was you had decided I was a crank and there was no real problem. After giving up on you and the dealer, that's when I reached out to the chimney sweep who immediately fixed the problem. I then called to report what had happened and never heard anything back.

You guys need to make sure your dealers know what they're doing. My son, who was then an infant, got his share of stove smoke. Two years later he was diagnosed with type one diabetes. We spent five days at Seattle Children's (three in the ICU). Worse, we came close to losing him. I don't know that the stove smoke was the cause but I'll spend the rest of my life wondering. I'll always regret listening to the nonsense advice I received from the Blaze King dealer and not having called in the chimney sweep before going around and around on the problem.

So, yes, BKVP, you guys made sure the stove was not the problem. You fell down in terms of making sure your dealer was competent.

PS: The dealer tried really hard. His failure was not for lack of effort. By the time they stopped returning my calls, I'm sure they were sorry they had ever agreed to install my stove. I'm sorry too. They did their best but were simply unqualified. They knew all about HVAC but were new to stoves and couldn't figure out what was wrong, even with your help.
 
Last edited:

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
688
Eastern Long Island NY
If you're responding to my post, everything you've written is truthful. In the beginning you guys really stepped up to help solve the problem. Ultimately the problem wasn't the stove.

That said, you had a dealer who really didn't know what he was doing as evidenced by the fact that he couldn't fix the problem and we lived with smoke for a year. Then we called in a chimney sweep and he immediately saw the problem and cleared it right up. In your test room the stove worked fine but in our family room it leaked. He added to the gasket in one corner where the leak was occurring and that was the end of it until the other day, when it began leaking again. Five years later, it's more than fair to expect to replace the gasket. I called Blaze King and they offered to send a 1 inch gasket, to replace the 7/8 incher that was used last time. So again, kudos to Blaze King for excellent customer service.

My gripe is that when the dealer couldn't find or fix the problem, you stopped returning my calls. My assumption was you had decided I was a crank and there was no real problem. After giving up on you and the dealer, that's when I reached out to the chimney sweep who immediately fixed the problem. I then called to report what had happened and never heard anything back.

You guys need to make sure your dealers know what they're doing. My son, who was then an infant, got his share of stove smoke. Two years later he was diagnosed with type one diabetes. We spent five days at Seattle Children's (three in the ICU). Worse, we came close to losing him. I don't know that the stove smoke was the cause but I'll spend the rest of my life wondering. I'll always regret listening to the nonsense advice I received from the Blaze King dealer and not having called in the chimney sweep before going around and around on the problem.

So, yes, BKVP, you guys made sure the stove was not the problem. You fell down in terms of making sure your dealer was competent.

PS: The dealer tried really hard. His failure was not for lack of effort. By the time they stopped returning my calls, I'm sure they were sorry they had ever agreed to install my stove. I'm sorry too. They did their best but were simply unqualified. They knew all about HVAC but were new to stoves and couldn't figure out what was wrong, even with your help.
Well, apart from anything else: keep that sweep!!

And I hope your son's condition is stably managed. Sorry to hear that.
 

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
769
Bellingham, WA
Well, apart from anything else: keep that sweep!!

And I hope your son's condition is stably managed. Sorry to hear that.
Thanks. My wife and I take turns managing his blood sugar through the night. It's become a way of life for us. God willing, there will be a cure one day. Meanwhile, the technology improves. We are so grateful for the technology. There was a time not long ago when type one was an automatic death sentence. Long after, it was something likely to shorten one' s life. Just a few years ago, parents weren't just waking up every few hours, they were waking up blind, having to prick the child's finger and hoping that they weren't about to rush to the hospital. With luck, in about a year we won't have to do these night vigils anymore. The next generation of insulin pumps should be smart enough to manage blood sugars through the night, when there are no major inputs (and when the technology works, which is not always).

As for the sweep, he is unfortunately retired. That's why I'm changing the gasket this time. If he were around, without question he'd be doing it. The guy was so honest. Last time he was out to my home to sweep the chimney, he takes a look with his mirror and says there's nothing to do. I said "Seriously?" He replied, "Yeah, I could run my sweep up there if you want and make a bunch of noise. But then I'd have to charge you." He wouldn't take money for the service call. He was a great guy. Hopefully still is. I wish him a long and happy retirement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stoveliker

fire_man

Minister of Fire
Feb 6, 2009
2,414
North Eastern MA
Thanks. My wife and I take turns managing his blood sugar through the night. It's become a way of life for us. God willing, there will be a cure one day. Meanwhile, the technology improves. We are so grateful for the technology. There was a time not long ago when type one was an automatic death sentence. Long after, it was something likely to shorten one' s life. Just a few years ago, parents weren't just waking up every few hours, they were waking up blind, having to prick the child's finger and hoping that they weren't about to rush to the hospital. With luck, in about a year we won't have to do these night vigils anymore. The next generation of insulin pumps should be smart enough to manage blood sugars through the night, when there are no major inputs (and when the technology works, which is not always).

As for the sweep, he is unfortunately retired. That's why I'm changing the gasket this time. If he were around, without question he'd be doing it. The guy was so honest. Last time he was out to my home to sweep the chimney, he takes a look with his mirror and says there's nothing to do. I said "Seriously?" He replied, "Yeah, I could run my sweep up there if you want and make a bunch of noise. But then I'd have to charge you." He wouldn't take money for the service call. He was a great guy. Hopefully still is. I wish him a long and happy retirement.
Parallax sorry if you answered this already but there are 10 pages of posts. Was your draft ever measured and if so how did it compare to BK's requirements? BK tested and found the stove was perfect in their factory setting but you still had the smoke problem finally traced to the gasket.

The root cause might be that BK's draft requirements don't line up with real world conditions, at least in your case.
 
Last edited:

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
769
Bellingham, WA
Parallax sorry if you answered this already but there are 10 pages of posts. Was your draft ever measured and if so how did it compare to BK's requirements? BK tested and found the stove was perfect in their factory setting but you still had the smoke problem finally traced to the gasket.

The root cause might be that BK's draft requirements don't line up with real world conditions, at least in your case.
Those are good points. One of the heroic things the dealer did to try to fix the problem was add another section of pipe to my chimney. It was hard to do, given its location. They secured it well. They didn't charge me a cent. They made sincere efforts to fix the problem. Prior to that, they measured the draft. They had never done it before and were in communication with Blaze King, even as they were running the test. They wound up claiming that draft wasn't the problem. But the chimney sweep later said he didn't think it adequate. The house is surrounded by trees and we live in a dip just off a hill. He said a stove should be able to run with the door open and no smoke entering the home. We could only reload when the fire had burned down to coals; otherwise we'd get smoke. I'm sure draft had something to do with the problem. But he was able to get it working by adding to the gasket at one corner, where the smoke was leaking. The door was tight. The dealer adjusted it after it was brought in the second time and later on I was instructed by Blaze King on how to made that adjustment. Passed the dollar bill test. I was taught how to check the cat to make sure it wasn't obstructed. Ran the stove super hot one time to burn off anything that might be obstructing. We did lots of stuff before the chimney sweep fixed the leak.

Perhaps, given our location, we would have been better off with a non-catalytic stove.