Ashford 30 Smoke Smell, again

Calentarse

Feeling the Heat
Feb 25, 2011
444
MD
Some of you may remember I had trouble with my old Ashford and spent quite a bit of time and money getting a better draft, changing bolts under the gasket, trying different gaskets, etc. to try to get rid of the smell. Well, I now have a new Ashford in my new home and have the same issue, this time, draft is NOT the issue.

I think I have it at least narrowed down to the hinge on the door. I have read that other BK owners also complain of the smell coming from the left front. With the top off, I can really isolate exactly where it’s emitting from laterally and it’s different than with the top on, obviously. As it rises up, it gets pulled in whatever direction and can lead us to believe its coming from elsewhere. With the top off, it’s right over the hinge and nowhere else. As the fire burns back and away from that area, the smell goes away.

Another interesting new observation on this brand new stove is that after my first few warm up fires, I was giving the stove a once over and noticed the door, when latched, could be pressed upon and there was give indicating that the latch was not that tight. So, l tightened it very slightly which brought the latch to a more secure feel. No play when pressing on the door. Would you guess that the smell got worse!? My theory is that since the latch pulled the door more tightly closed on the latch side, it exasperates the issue with the hinge, bowing it further out from the knife edge causing the release of the smell.

I just wanted to let everyone know my experience. I obviously love the stove enough to rebuy it, but God I hate this smell. My new neighbor actually loves the stove and is in the market but he can smell it so is turned off. If anyone has a fix that isn’t the same old draft argument, Id be very grateful. My new setup is as follows: 25’ straight up, double wall, OAK, no fan kit, yet. I burn everything from cedar to white oak, MC 15-18% with most everything, sometimes lower. I burn every load for at least 10mins before I engage the cat, sometimes longer if my chimney isn’t getting too hot. House is 2200sf. Stay warm everyone!
 
  • Like
Reactions: coutufr

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
86,528
South Puget Sound, WA
Very sorry to hear this. Your setup sounds perfect.
 

Mark8

Member
Dec 23, 2017
248
Central California
So let me get this straight, you had a stove that gave you problems and then you turned around and bought the same exact model expecting a different result. LOL;lol

I'm not laughing at you I'm laughing with you because this is the kind of crap that happens to me, glad I'm not the only one!!!
 

rdust

Minister of Fire
Feb 9, 2009
4,571
Michigan
I’m surprised BK hasn’t flown an engineer out to customers with these issues. I know they are helping some customers but it’s time to end this.
 

aaronk25

Burning Hunk
Feb 15, 2017
176
Rochester
What is your draft measured in water column? On high and low?
I got a theory to much draft causes it by pulling the air off the air wash straight back to the cat. To much vacuum (pressure drop). Air doesn’t stay on the glass it gets pulled off.

On mine I’m getting .15 on high (3 times the spec of .05) and on low around .1 with double wall insulated chimney.

Put a stove collar damper on it and adjust down the draft and glass stay cleaner.
Again it’s a theory I’ve been chasing, but these new insulated manufactured chimneys pull hard, really hard...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful

weatherguy

Minister of Fire
Feb 20, 2009
5,762
Central Mass
I remember another member had the PH and couldnt solve the smoke smell issue. After many tries gave up got their money back and got another brand stove. Same issue. Turned out it was a problem with his house. I only bring it up because you have to look at everything not just the stove.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
86,528
South Puget Sound, WA
I remember another member had the PH and couldnt solve the smoke smell issue. After many tries gave up got their money back and got another brand stove. Same issue. Turned out it was a problem with his house. I only bring it up because you have to look at everything not just the stove.
Poor fellow, this is a different house too! And not to add to the irony, but his folks have a PH.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful

Calentarse

Feeling the Heat
Feb 25, 2011
444
MD
Poor fellow, this is a different house too! And not to add to the irony, but his folks have a PH.
Yep and they really like it. The cat gets dirty and has to be removed and cleaned, but it’s better than the old Momma Bear!
 

Calentarse

Feeling the Heat
Feb 25, 2011
444
MD
What is your draft measured in water column? On high and low?
I got a theory to much draft causes it by pulling the air off the air wash straight back to the cat. To much vacuum (pressure drop). Air doesn’t stay on the glass it gets pulled off.

On mine I’m getting .15 on high (3 times the spec of .05) and on low around .1 with double wall insulated chimney.

Put a stove collar damper on it and adjust down the draft and glass stay cleaner.
Again it’s a theory I’ve been chasing, but these new insulated manufactured chimneys pull hard, really hard...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Before I had a stove that had two 45s and didn’t pull hard enough, so I added chimney: still had issue. Now I have an ideal setup and it pulls too hard: still have smell. What’s a guy to do...
 
  • Like
Reactions: coutufr

Calentarse

Feeling the Heat
Feb 25, 2011
444
MD
So let me get this straight, you had a stove that gave you problems and then you turned around and bought the same exact model expecting a different result. LOL;lol

I'm not laughing at you I'm laughing with you because this is the kind of crap that happens to me, glad I'm not the only one!!!
Everyone said this was draft related, including long time owners and very credible people. Well, it’s not entirely draft, this my experience has now taught me. Th good news is my smoke spillage issues are gone. I can do hot reloads without smoke spillage which I couldn’t do before...definitely happy about that! I just wish someone could find the issue with the door and provide some sort of a fix, if it’s even possible to fix. If it isn’t, I guess I need to consider a non-cat...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stonehousekennels

Calentarse

Feeling the Heat
Feb 25, 2011
444
MD
I’m surprised BK hasn’t flown an engineer out to customers with these issues. I know they are helping some customers but it’s time to end this.
I’d welcome a visit!
 

aaronk25

Burning Hunk
Feb 15, 2017
176
Rochester
Before I had a stove that had two 45s and didn’t pull hard enough, so I added chimney: still had issue. Now I have an ideal setup and it pulls too hard: still have smell. What’s a guy to do...

Can’t offer any advice if you don’t know what your draft is. As I wrote before I think pulling to hard (to much draft is the problem). I explained it above.

Blaze king specifies between .03” and .05” of draft. They don’t say hook it up to and run. In order to blame the stove manufacture you have to ensure you are operating within the specs. Saying you don’t have 45s and the run is this long still leaves variables. Get a manometer or hire a pro to test your draft. If your draft is within specified then you got a real complaint but if you don’t know the draft, well what’s a guy to do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
  • Like
Reactions: lsucet

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
3,074
Ottawa, ON
Is it only the ashford? Are they experiencing this with the Chinook or Sirocco?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I am very interested in this too. All three are the same stove in a different dress.
 

Calentarse

Feeling the Heat
Feb 25, 2011
444
MD
Is it only the ashford? Are they experiencing this with the Chinook or Sirocco?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I have seen reports of it with both other owners. If you look back on the threads you will see comments from owners of both with the same issue. I'm currently conversing with someone with a Sirocco 20 that has the issue, so it's not just the Ashford and not just the 30 box. Also, I feel like princess and even a king owner has mentioned it...maybe @Highbeam with his princess?

I also realize this is inherent to cat or downdraft stoves too, so that's why I'm considering switching to non-cat...my in laws have a Hearthstone and I don't smell smoke around their stove when it's turned down (whatever that means for that thing!:oops:
 

tarzan

Minister of Fire
Jan 16, 2014
1,552
wv
I have seen reports of it with both other owners. If you look back on the threads you will see comments from owners of both with the same issue. I'm currently conversing with someone with a Sirocco 20 that has the issue, so it's not just the Ashford and not just the 30 box. Also, I feel like princess and even a king owner has mentioned it...maybe @Highbeam with his princess?

I also realize this is inherent to cat or downdraft stoves too, so that's why I'm considering switching to non-cat...my in laws have a Hearthstone and I don't smell smoke around their stove when it's turned down (whatever that means for that thing!:oops:
I would be interested too here from anyone who has the smoke smell issue with the princess or king. I don't think the problem is inherent to cat stoves but more to a particular design of cat stove.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woody Stover

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
18,598
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Can’t offer any advice if you don’t know what your draft is. As I wrote before I think pulling to hard (to much draft is the problem). I explained it above.

Blaze king specifies between .03” and .05” of draft. They don’t say hook it up to and run. In order to blame the stove manufacture you have to ensure you are operating within the specs. Saying you don’t have 45s and the run is this long still leaves variables. Get a manometer or hire a pro to test your draft. If your draft is within specified then you got a real complaint but if you don’t know the draft, well what’s a guy to do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Agreed. Seems the bk manual sets us up for failure. Requires a very tall chimney but then requires a very low draft. How can you satisfy both? Even if you could, would that stop leakage?
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
18,598
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
I would be interested too here from anyone who has the smoke smell issue with the princess or king. I don't think the problem is inherent to cat stoves but more to a particular design of cat stove.
On any burn setting if I stick my nose right to/above the hinge I can detect a creosote odor. Very tolerable and no smell in the room. I do not have a smoke leak. During a hot reload, if even the slightest puff of smoke rolls out we are very aware of that stink in our small home.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tarzan

coutufr

Feeling the Heat
Sep 16, 2017
253
Montréal
Creosote smell is comming from the door hinge gasket. The reason is not clear but we all have a theory as to why. When it is warmer outside or at the beginning of the season it bothers me more. There are 3 known solutions: change the gasket for a graphite saturated one, readjust the door or burn hotter. I tried the last 2 solutions with marginal improvement at best. Draft certainly has an impact but when you are within the installation manual requirements I don’t see why someone would need to try to increase the draft to try to solve the problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aaronk25

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
3,074
Ottawa, ON
I was certain regarding my new purchase come spring time. A Chinook was going into my newly constructed house.

This smoke thing makes me nervous.......

My VC will backpuff on occasion but I know I caused it by shutting it down too quickly. And it can be easily fixed by adding some more air.

Keystone is probably equal to the Chinook in terms of heat output. Decisions, decisions.......
 

lsucet

Minister of Fire
May 14, 2015
1,674
San Ysidro, New Mexico
Creosote smell is comming from the door hinge gasket. The reason is not clear but we all have a theory as to why. When it is warmer outside or at the beginning of the season it bothers me more. There are 3 known solutions: change the gasket for a graphite saturated one, readjust the door or burn hotter. I tried the last 2 solutions with marginal improvement at best. Draft certainly has an impact but when you are within the installation manual requirements I don’t see why someone would need to try to increase the draft to try to solve the problem.
Is related to many factors, location, bents, surrounding, etc. The same 15' as for the manual at different altitude i assume, it will not work the same.
 

coutufr

Feeling the Heat
Sep 16, 2017
253
Montréal
From the stove top I have over 25 feet of chimney running mostly inside the house, with 2 45 degrees. The whole setup is 1 year old, was bought brand new and was installed by a professional. It is -10 F outside, Thermostat is at 3 o’clock and it is almost only coal remaining inside the stove. I can still smell the creosote odor. I love the Ashford, would buy it again but if the draft is what is causing the creosote smell I don’t think I will ever have enough draft to eliminate it.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
18,598
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Is related to many factors, location, bents, surrounding, etc. The same 15' as for the manual at different altitude i assume, it will not work the same.
Like bends, altitude affects draft strength. Related to air density at lower atmospheric pressure due to less of that heavy air between you and the moon!

I would enjoy testing my draft. I’m guessing that very few forum members, stove enthusiasts, have ever used a draft meter.