2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 2 (Everything BK)

[estepracing]

well jack pine is a specific species - "regular pine" would be a slang term, not a technical term. so the "regular pine" would have a scientific and common name - if you know someone good at tree ID you could ask - also knowing the bush and types of trees that grow in your area will help you narrow it down.

Looks like here in Indiana the only thing we really have would be Pitch Pine according to the DNR website

Blaze King King Wood Stove

 

[AlbergSteve]

In your situation I would have made the exact same choice, Poindexter. I would choose Blaze King over any other brand. The Ashford is a beautiful stove. If appearance matters (and that's highly personal and very valid, I am sensitive to aesthetics also, the wrong stove in the wrong place will annoy you every day you have to look at it) then the Ashford, Sirocco and Chinook lines address that need. I think of that particular category as BK's "fashion line." As you said, the box size (and honestly, the specs and the BTU output) aren't that different between the Princess and the Ashford/Sirocco/Chinook stoves. I doubt I'd notice a difference in heat output between the Ashford and the Princess if the Princess magically morphed into an Ashford here overnight.

We are fortunate that the Princess' utilitarian looks fit right in with our house and with our location. In fact, for some odd reason (I have no explanation for this, it just is) I prefer plainer stoves to more ornate ones. When we were considering Woodstocks, weView attachment 219738 were looking strongly at the first iteration of the Ideal Steel line. We were willing to wait for the beta/field testing phase to be completed. We ended up going with plain Jane Princess and we couldn't be happier.

If I had to choose from the Ashford/Sirocco/Chinook line, I'd likely choose the Chinook or the Sirocco. So you can see how the plainer lines of the Princess don't bother me so much.

Another factor in choosing the Princess is that, at least at the time when we bought ours, we got the ever so slight size advantage of the Princess for $1000 less than the Ashford 30. For me that was a no brainer- give me the slightly bigger stove for $1000 less money.

As I said above, I was struggling with whether or not the King would be over the top in our situation. Now that I understand how well these stoves run on low burn, probably not- but we would have had one big daddy of a stove sitting in between our dining room and our living room. It definitely would have been more obtrusive.

If I had it to do over, I'd strongly consider adding the fans as opposed to the heat shield. I did not understand at the time that the fans acted as close clearance heat mitigation even if they weren't running. In all fairness, the shop owner could have explained that to me, but for some reason it didn't register. This is the first wood stove we've owned and for which we've been first person responsible (choosing it, having it installed, using it, maintaining it) and it's a pretty steep curve at first. Lots of front end loaded information. One absorbs as quickly as one can.

On the other hand, the heat shield was inexpensive, and I'm pretty darned happy with the box fan solution. I might follow, was it Ashful's? suggestion and order a smaller desk top/pedestal fan from Amazon just to have a slightly quieter fan in play near the living room. At any rate, the box fan was less than $20 at Walmart, we already own two of them, simple enough.

@becasunshine , can you tell me what the clearance is to the back of your Princess?

 

[Ashful]

I've always been told ever since burning wood that you should not burn Pine but I was never really given a reason or is it different with the Blaze King.

I believe you can burn pine in just about any stove, as long as it’s dry. Most of the bad rap about pine and creosote is from folks burning it wet, as it’s one of the woods that burn just fine without proper drying. Any wet wood will cause creosote issues, and since one can easily burn wet pine (as opposed to wet oak... which will just refuse to burn), a bad reputation developed. Any EPA stove is going to do a pretty good job at completely burning all of the volatiles coming off of dry pine.

Another issue with pine is the fireworks. It sparks, sometimes a LOT. Again, not an issue for burning in a stove, only for those with open fireplaces.

 

[estepracing]

I believe you can burn pine in just about any stove, as long as it’s dry. Most of the bad rap about pine and creosote is from folks burning it wet, as it’s one of the woods that burn just fine without proper drying. Any wet wood will cause creosote issues, and since one can easily burn wet pine (as opposed to wet oak... which will just refuse to burn), a bad reputation developed. Any EPA stove is going to do a pretty good job at completely burning all of the volatiles coming off of dry pine.

Another issue with pine is the fireworks. It sparks, sometimes a LOT. Again, not an issue for burning in a stove, only for those with open fireplaces.

Thanks so much

Blaze King King Wood Stove

 

[jetsam]

In super cold weather like we're having right now, pine is the best wood in my stacks. Burns hot, little coal, little ash.

I didn't anticipate this super cold month and only laid in less than 1 cord of pine for this year... now I'm sorry! I'm using what I have left sparingly (often to burn off the coals from all the oak and maple).

 

[jetsam]

Most of the bad rap about pine and creosote is from folks burning it wet, as it’s one of the woods that burn just fine without proper drying.

I have been puzzling over the origin of "you can't burn pine indoors or your house will burn down", which everyone in the northeast seems to know. (I grew up burning wood in the midwest and never once heard it.)

The creosote theory makes sense, but it really doesn't explain it satisfactorily for me.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that an area contains 1000 wood burners, all of whom have been told the Pine Story. Let's say 750 of the 1000 CSS their own wood, and one in three dries the wood before burning it. That leaves 250 of 1000 burners who both CSS wood and season it before burning. None of these guys have ever asked, "What exactly is it about pine that makes the house burn down?" It stretches the imagination.

It seems like a population of 500 guys burning wood dangerously and 250 burning it cleanly would quickly figure out that wet poplar, wet pine, and wet ash all produce the same results, and that all three burn great dry.

On the other hand, everyone also seems to know that you will "get sick" if you go outside when it's cold, and none of those people can tell me which disease I'm about to get, so maybe I should just file all this under "people are nuts".

 

[Ashful]

I have been puzzling over the origin of "you can't burn pine indoors or your house will burn down", which everyone in the northeast seems to know. (I grew up burning wood in the midwest and never once heard it.)

The creosote theory makes sense, but it really doesn't explain it satisfactorily for me.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that an area contains 1000 wood burners, all of whom have been told the Pine Story. Let's say 750 of the 1000 CSS their own wood, and one in three dries the wood before burning it. That leaves 250 of 1000 burners who both CSS wood and season it before burning. None of these guys have ever asked, "What exactly is it about pine that makes the house burn down?" It stretches the imagination.

It seems like a population of 500 guys burning wood dangerously and 250 burning it cleanly would quickly figure out that wet poplar, wet pine, and wet ash all produce the same results, and that all three burn great dry.

On the other hand, everyone also seems to know that you will "get sick" if you go outside when it's cold, and none of those people can tell me which disease I'm about to get, so maybe I should just file all this under "people are nuts".

Well, you quote me, but I really have to give credit to guys like begreen and Backwoods Savage for setting me straight on this. Growing up in the northeast, I was also under the “don’t burn pine” belief, when I started here. In fact, it’s one of your posts from today that convinced me I should be collecting it, now.

Also, I think your numbers are generous, when you consider how many might have been burning dry wood, back when this rumor started. I suspect that if we go back more than 40 years, it was less than 1:10 who were burning wood seasoned more than 1 year.

 

[jetsam]

Well, you quote me, but I really have to give credit to guys like begreen and Backwoods Savage for setting me straight on this. Growing up in the northeast, I was also under the “don’t burn pine” belief, when I started here. In fact, it’s one of your posts from today that convinced me I should be collecting it, now.

Also, I think your numbers are generous, when you consider how many might have been burning dry wood, back when this rumor started. I suspect that if we go back more than 40 years, it was less than 1:10 who were burning wood seasoned more than 1 year.

Growing up, we would take wood inside directly from splitting and put it on the fire. So you may be right about that!

And yeah, collect pine. When you want to put your stove in catch-up mode, softwood is the right wood!

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Well, you quote me, but I really have to give credit to guys like begreen and Backwoods Savage for setting me straight on this. Growing up in the northeast, I was also under the “don’t burn pine” belief, when I started here. In fact, it’s one of your posts from today that convinced me I should be collecting it, now.

This just made me really happy, as goofy as that sounds. I’ve seen your insistence on processing higher BTU woods over the years, and there’s merit there. I certainly wasn’t going to argue, but there was that part of me that really appreciates pine that was just a little sad about its being dismissed so emphatically.

 

[drstorm]

The heat from the combustor, the combustor exhaust, crashes into a steel curtain welded to the top of the firebox 3 or 4 inches from the back face of the combustor. That curtain conducts heat to the the top of the firebox, where the deck fans can strip it off and blow it out into the room. It's beautiful

I think you could write a wood stove adult novel after reading this quote,

 

[redktmrider]

I've always been told ever since burning wood that you should not burn Pine but I was never really given a reason or is it different with the Blaze King.

People who burn wet hardwood and clog up their chimney with creosote would burn pine which burns hot even when not fully seasoned and the result would be a chimney fire.
I really like pine because it seasons quickly ( usually one year) and leaves very little ash.
You can burn pine but like any other wood you want it seasoned and to have a fairly clean chimney.

 

[webby3650]

Looks like here in Indiana the only thing we really have would be Pitch Pine according to the DNR website

Blaze King King Wood Stove

We have lots of different verities of pine trees here in Indiana.

 

[kf6hap]

"What exactly is it about pine that makes the house burn down?"

That is easy. The stoves of old were not air tight. Combustion control was marginal and an overloaded firebox could quickly rage out of control. Many stoves could NEVER be stuffed full of soft wood like a BK as a red top and flue stack was an absolute certainty. A red stack is north of 1,200F and the draw becomes extreme. Basically the wood load had to expend itself with the damper pinched shut but the leaky box would let the fire rage. Old stove+pine=runaway red topped stove often times. Read the section below about my past stoves!

Ashful is right about the wet pine. It does burn and the smoke dragons of old could make a lot of creosote when throttled down for the night.

Modern airtight EPA stoves don't easily get into runaway condition as you can literally snuff the fire out by closing the damper.

Love your BK whatever model.

 

[coutufr]

Using the Ashford thermostat setting around 3oclock I run the fan on low burning Ash with 15 - 17% moisture. Using the fan seems to get me more BtU per load. How easily you can warm up your house doesn’t depend solely on your stove. Insulation and efficient windows are probably more important that the brand of your stove in high wind low temperature conditions.

 

[becasunshine]

@becasunshine , can you tell me what the clearance is to the back of your Princess?

@AlbergSteve, 6" rear clearance from the heat shield to the wall.

Here's the clearance chart for the Princess. Our situation is the fourth row down: roof exit, close clearance. We don't need side shields because we have plenty of clearance on either side. We do have the proprietary heat shield on the back.

Scroll down to page 14 for the chart.

https://www.blazeking.com/EN/PDF/manuals/OM-PE-E.pdf

 

[aaronk25]

So with this cold weather im running my stove pretty high around 2.5, i usderstand that the 20 box is small but its supposed to get 8hrs on high? At 2.5 im only getting around 4hrs. It heats great, as long as im around to feed it. My door gasket is tight, not sure about the bypass seal though, could that be affecting my burn times if it was not tight?

It will run 8 hours on high IF your draft is at
.05 which I believe is the manufacture max spec for flue draft. Now almost all flues as a result of extra heat from running on high blow way past.05 in draft and the BK T-Stat does the best job of any stove at adjusting but it has a range of “Auto” adjustment and can’t compensate enough for the excessive draft.

If your burning the same wood and weight as what Bk publishes for there 8 hour brochure data, then I’ll guarantee that excessive draft is your problem. Maybe turn the T-Stat 30 degrees less would get you close to a 8 hour burn to compensate for excessive draft.


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[17vljoe]

It will run 8 hours on high IF your draft is at
.05 which I believe is the manufacture max spec for flue draft. Now almost all flues as a result of extra heat from running on high blow way past.05 in draft and the BK T-Stat does the best job of any stove at adjusting but it has a range of “Auto” adjustment and
can’t compensate enough for the excessive draft.

If your burning the same wood and weight as what Bk publishes for there 8 hour brochure data, then I’ll guarantee that excessive draft is your problem. Maybe turn the T-Stat 30 degrees less would get you close to a 8 hour burn to compensate for excessive draft.


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Ok that makes sense, i probably do have excessive draft, i have about 5' of single wall connector pipe inside, than through the wall to about 25' of double wall class A up the side of the house. How do i compensate for this issue? Key damper? Than how do i know where to set it to get the proper draft?

 

[Niko]

So how did your process go getting your catalytic cumbustor replaced under warramry?

The dealer i bought it from left me a message stating I need to take pictures of the cat, the steel plate in front of cat, inside the stove, outside the stove etc.

From all my reading on this forum i dont think i have come across this.

 

[kennyp2339]

So how did your process go getting your catalytic cumbustor replaced under warramry?

The dealer i bought it from left me a message stating I need to take pictures of the cat, the steel plate in front of cat, inside the stove, outside the stove etc.

From all my reading on this forum i dont think i have come across this.

Sounds like the dealer wants all the details so he can send them to BK. what hes looking for on the combustor is to see if the honey combs are falling apart or cracking, plus fly ash, on the steel plate he's looking for a build up of fly ash (a more lite blown, yellow tinged color) this shows that you are operating at good temps and the combustor is failing, same with the inside of the stove, no heavy creosote, that shows your doing the prescribed 30 min high burn, keeps things in check.
Overall stove pick I assume is to make sure the install is with in spec / no abuse

 

[aaronk25]

Ok that makes sense, i probably do have excessive draft, i have about 5' of single wall connector pipe inside, than through the wall to about 25' of double wall class A up the side of the house. How do i compensate for this issue? Key damper? Than how do i know where to set it to get the proper draft?

I had the smoke smell. It’s gone now with proper draft. So the back wall isn’t finished yet (stone next week but here is what I have now. I used the cat hole for the manometer 1/4” copper tube the. After 2’ the manometer rubber tube fits inside the copper tube sealed with silicone. Manometer on wall begins. Paid like $30 or somthing for it.

So what I do is t stat full open and key damper full, get fire hot the. Reduce key until your at around .05, if it’s really cold -10f ill set the chimney draft at .07-.1. Then set your T stat where you want it and your done. It’s easy. I don’t use the cat gauge, I run it enough to know when to engage it. A hole could be drilled in the bottom of the stove collar for the manometer, and maybe possibly (would want to confirm with BK for approval) a hole right behind the t stat for a manometer.

Mine is left of full time. It’s interesting to see how much harder the flue pulls when it gets cold.

First pic shows simple setup.

Shows key damper open and draft at .13

Show key damper nearing closed and draft at .07. It’s -15f right now so that explains the excessive draft, plus chimney is hot as I just turn down the damper so it will settle in at .05.

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[jetsam]

I don't understand how increasing your draft causes smoke to get out of the stove and into the house. It seems like the opposite would be true.

 

[Highbeam]

I don't understand how increasing your draft causes smoke to get out of the stove and into the house. It seems like the opposite would be true.

The theory is that the air wash is ineffective at higher drafts. Clean intake air shoots straight to the flue instead of blowing across the glass and displacing the smoke.

The assumption depends on the door gasket not working in any case. Leaking clean air at specified draft and leaking smoke at excessive draft.

Maybe my 12’ chimney is actually a good thing!

 

[jetsam]

The theory is that the air wash is ineffective at higher drafts. Clean intake air shoots straight to the flue instead of blowing across the glass and displacing the smoke.

The assumption depends on the door gasket not working in any case. Leaking clean air at specified draft and leaking smoke at excessive draft.

That sounds iffy. Now we're saying the stove is at positive pressure versus the room, which seems unlikely, since the stove is drawing from the room to fill the vacuum in the flue. Take the door gasket away and you'll get much increased airflow, not reverse airflow. I understand intske air is getting dragged across the door, but a porous gasket is going to drag air in, not out (unless the fire is out, and then I guess it's more open to debate).

 

[Diabel]

Is Chris (BKVP) chiming in on ths potential smoke issue at all? I believe he was dealing with some of the members on a individual basis (private chats).

It would be nice if he could shed some light on this issue here, so potential new buyers would be at somewhat ease.....

 

[17vljoe]

Not sure if this is the same issue, but when i have my bypass open and air control on max setting to burn in a new load of wood i get smoke puffing out of all my connector pipe seams, if i turn down the air to around 2.5 and the smoke stops puffing out of the seams.