attn englander techs (mike holton)... please help

[hnkstang50]

this is what j-takeman said about the modifyed blower that fasco came up with... looks to be exactly whats needed to keep that rear bearing just as cool as the front.

This issue has been around for a while and not just one brand of stoves. Breckwell has had the issue too! They and Fasco came up with these beauties to help curve the heat issue.

They are c-frame shaded pole motors with fans at both ends to cool the bearings, Open frame also helps reduce noise issues overall. Enviro and Harman have used them on the combustion motors for years!

 

[turbotech]

1) Bearings are manufactured with different types of grease. There are many qualities available. If you feel you need to try and put oil in that bearing it will work for a short while and destroy it.
2) Match up the part number on the bearing and install a new one. Use a C3 quality and it will last a long time. Watch out for cheap bearings as the grease and tolerance isn't as good.
3) What is the part number on the side of the bearing?

I typically buy extras because you never know when you will need them. Most motors only need new bearings and the ones that are fried are usually because the bearings seized.
A slotted piece of steel as a back stop works to removed them. A piece of brake/fuel line makes a good install tool.

 

[hnkstang50]

Bearing number nmb 608ssd21 made in Singapore.

Can you fond a new better bearing for me and where to buy it. I looked bit I don't know Jack about what's a good bearing for this application

 

[gfreek]

Do you have any way of measuring the ID, OD and Width of the bearing with micrometer or caliper?

 

[ohbix]

re: bearings. 608 are 8 mm by 22mm by 7 mm. For my bixby fan, I purchased skf 608 2Z bearings from NAPA. Just ordered another pair thru Amazon as they are half the NAPA price. Would using a ceramic bearing provide longer use? I've replaced bearings twice; in each case bearings seemed fine, but the squeal was resolved when new bearings used.

 

[littlesmokey]

I think TurboTch has given you the information you need. Take the one you have to a supplier, there are lots of bearing supply houses, or industrial supply houses where you can get the one you have measured and replaced.

 

[hnkstang50]

Do you have any way of measuring the ID, OD and Width of the bearing with micrometer or caliper?

I can measure the shaft but its a pressed fit. That part does not wear. The ball bearing does not come apart

 

[gfreek]

Yup 608-2RS has rubber shields covering the rollers will do, converted its: ID .3150 - OD .8661- Width .0275. Try auto parts, electric motor repair, etc. Or Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/608-2RS-Beari...0Q/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1295812933&sr=8-10

 

[hnkstang50]

thanks guys... so gfreak that bearing that you posted the link to is a better bearing or just a same size replacment?


so heres what i did today... i removed the front bearing that was good. i removed the bad rear bearing on my other blower and installed the good one on it. then i drilled a smal hole in the blower housing... hammered a punchs taped end into the hole to roll in the lip and tapped the hole. i threaded a barrbed fitting into it and ran vacuum hose into a opeing in the case pointing right on the bearing... my hope is some air gets pushed through the hole and keeps the bearing cool. just as long as i didnt damage the bearing in the process it should be quite when i install it. i dont know if this is a perment fix but hopufly it shuts my stove up untill mike or englander gets back to me.

hers are some pics.

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[slvrblkk]

here is another site:

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-1031/608-dsh-2RS-608-dsh-ZZ-Radial-Ball/Detail

 

[gfreek]

Just a replacement bearing found on Amazon, quality don't know. Maybe someone can recommend brand/name, other supplier. ohbix suggested SKF brand bearing, from NAPA.

 

[slvrblkk]

SKF...Timken...FAG.....all good bearings but who knows where this stuff is made anymore......

 

[hnkstang50]

Thanks good links

I'm happy to say Putin that good bearing in has fixed the noise...for now. The hose I fabricated doest blow much air at all but Maby it will help keep the bearing cool.

 

[breklaw]

1) Bearings are manufactured with different types of grease. There are many qualities available. If you feel you need to try and put oil in that bearing it will work for a short while and destroy it.
2) Match up the part number on the bearing and install a new one. Use a C3 quality and it will last a long time. Watch out for cheap bearings as the grease and tolerance isn't as good.
3) What is the part number on the side of the bearing?

I typically buy extras because you never know when you will need them. Most motors only need new bearings and the ones that are fried are usually because the bearings seized.
A slotted piece of steel as a back stop works to removed them. A piece of brake/fuel line makes a good install tool.

I call BS on item 1. I have been working on things way more complicated and delicate, CT scanners, laboratory equipment and such, since 1975, and have walked in with a pen oiler and fixed stuff that lasted for YEARS. My stove, built in 03 just got a new combustion blower- it runs continiously from Oct/Nov to Apr/Mar- and I only replaced it due to a broken fan blade. ORIGINAL MOTOR AND BEARINGS Re-lube well and often, with TEFLON LUBE, you will be very surprised at what you get for a return. And, BTW, so what if you "destroy" a bad bearing? Sorry, a short while is not many years. I agree that most motors need only bearing replacement. Also like the ideas for removing and replacing same. My take on this is the OLD DRIED LUBE is what is making the bearing noisy- flushing it out, and replacing it with a lighter, synthetic TEFLON lube has worked for me, for YEARS, without replacing many bearings. It takes some time, and patience, sitting there spinning it by hand with qtips and paper towels. AND TEFLON LUBE! Humbly, Bill W

 

[breklaw]

I almost forgot- I am impressed with the air wash setup you have created for this bearing! Please let us know how it works Even a small amount of air would be better than none! Great looking job! I still recommend TEFLON lube!
Bill W

 

[turbotech]

I call BS on item 1. I have been working on things way more complicated and delicate, CT scanners, laboratory equipment and such, since 1975, and have walked in with a pen oiler and fixed stuff that lasted for YEARS.

Please post what company is allowing you to put teflon oil as a repair on medical grade equipment such as a CT scanner.

Yes, they can be oiled. Most people don't want to take their motor apart all the time to oil it when a new bearing cost a couple bucks and will last a long time without constant maintenance. If you don't mind constant disassemble and oil then that is one option. How do you determine if the balls & cage are not scored before you try the oil? Or do you just try it and take back apart if it makes noise at speed?

 

[hnkstang50]

I almost forgot- I am impressed with the air wash setup you have created for this bearing! Please let us know how it works Even a small amount of air would be better than none! Great looking job! I still recommend TEFLON lube!
Bill W

Thanks. It's hardly any air and motor housing is still very hot when running. My combustion blower motor is identical besides the paddle style fan bit runs Much much cooler! I think it has alot less load due to fan blade design. 09 is when they switched to ball bearings. I read on fascos site that the older bushings are better for lower speeds and noises. No balls to get noisy so just need to keep up on oiling.

Blower that I put the bearing on is still quite! But I know its only a matter of time. I'm calling tech support again this morning. Wish me luck

 

[hnkstang50]

just to update... bearing noise started in last night very quite and only for a few mins and went away... just the same as all other blowers... it only gets louder from there..

going to really investigate different bearings now.

anyone having this problem please contact englander. they tell me not enuff people are having this issue to be thinking there is a problem but i know at least 4 others on this sight that are having the same noises out of there blowers. the more we call and document it the better chance of a fix!

 

[turbotech]

I would not replace with just a regular 608ZZ bearing. The OEM ones with the part number you listed are much better and intended for the application. The part you listed is common in skateboard wheels. Contact NMB Bearing and they can give you a list of distributors.

 

[hnkstang50]

wanted to keep this updated incase someone else with this problem is reading this post. i forget if i posted this but i had called fasco about this issue also and they said there is no known problem with this blower. they sent me a new one because i am out of my warrenty with englander and wanted to help me out. i got the new one in the mail yeterday and to my surprize it looks to be a differet or uptated part. the cooling fan blades have a sharper pitch to them. the rear bearing cap is WELDED on so i cannot change the bearings in this one easily. also the caseing has differnt vent holes and the armature is not coated with a green substance. im hopful they have fixed the issue maby awile ago and englander just has old stock?

also it seems miked holton is avoiding this post... ii have seen him post to other topics but not this one. i was hoping i could help them figure out this issue with his help because he can see the videos and such.

i used a temp gun and teh old blower ran about 150 on the casing. towards the front by the fan it was much cooler at 120. i installed the new blower and it seems to run about 5-10 degrees cooler.. dont know if thats any kind of good difference.

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[gfreek]

Thanks for the update....

 

[turbotech]

Alpine bearing has the 608ssd21 in stock for $3 each and a $15 minimum order.
http://alpinebearing.reachlocal.com

 

[rad3110]

Bump. Come on Mike we have an issue here. We need a little help. My stove has a very similar noise and have gone through two blowers to date. I tried to get through today but was not able to hold on long enough. Englander is a great company. I trust they will do the rite thing. Thanks

 

[hnkstang50]

been messing around with a heat gun and found the blower runs hotter the hotter i get the stove. then found that where the auger feed tube goes through the back of the stove to the burn pot was blowing HOT air aroud the seems into the back of the stove. i sealed this up with high temp rtv. blower temps have not gotten above 135 now. hoping this may be the problem and reason the bearings are over heating on my stove. i am going to try and add some heat insulation the the back of the stove and more around the exhaust pipe where it exits to try and get the temps lower.

im starting to think its blower location/stove design as fasco kinda hinted to.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

been messing around with a heat gun and found the blower runs hotter the hotter i get the stove. then found that where the auger feed tube goes through the back of the stove to the burn pot was blowing HOT air aroud the seems into the back of the stove. i sealed this up with high temp rtv. blower temps have not gotten above 135 now. hoping this may be the problem and reason the bearings are over heating on my stove. i am going to try and add some heat insulation the the back of the stove and more around the exhaust pipe where it exits to try and get the temps lower.

im starting to think its blower location/stove design as fasco kinda hinted to.

There is one other thing that I don't think you have considered. But you are getting there.

The temperature inside the stove shell will also be a function of how much heat the convection blower actually removes from the stove.

The more air the convection blower can move the lower the temperatures inside the stove shell.