Avalon Astoria Wood Pellet Stove Questions

[hammmy]

Hello all,

I bought a used Avalon Astoria back in December and have been heating with it for a bit over a month now. It has some issues, however.

When I try to burn with the Heat Output and Fan settings at their lowest, the stove goes out more times than not. I had a good week where it didn't, but it's back to its old tricks now. What seems to happen is that at some point on the Heat Output knob's range, the auger will stop feeding although the Auger light on the control box still lights up at the appropriate intervals. This point on the knob's (potentiometer? rheostat?) range varies--today it is nearly to the border of Low and Medium, while at other times it's been much lower. It's pretty frustrating, as I like to start the stove, set it on Hellfire mode until the room temperature gets up towards 70, and then cut the stove down to its lowest settings to maintain the temp.

The second problem is, on Manual mode using Manual Start, sometimes the stove starts the fans up and starts feeding pellets immediately, and sometimes there's just a quiet whine and nothing happens for some time. From what I've observed lately, it will eventually start up the fans and auger on its own, but it takes several minutes or more. What's going on, and is this normal?

Thirdly, it came with a remote control that doubles as a thermostat for Automatic mode. Could someone please let me know how far the temperature at the remote has to drop before the stove is supposed to cycle back on (assuming the remote has reached its temp. setting and stopped the stove)? The Automatic mode has been so erratic with shutting itself off and not coming back on, or having the stove go out with the remote still On, that I've given up on it entirely and have been using Manual mode exclusively.

Lastly, what's the cheapest online source for parts? A manual would be nice too, but I've read the one online for newer Astorias from Travis and it's fairly useless for any kind of troubleshooting, so I'd guess the older manual would be a waste of time as well. The Avalon website is a travesty.

Serial # 925063, build date of Oct. 2001.

Thanks for looking,

-dave

 

[hearthtools]

Was the stove used when you started using it?
Sounds like you need to Do a full service on the stove
Remove the combustion blower and clean out all the Combustion clean outChambers.
Also pull the Concection blower and clean that out with air also.
The vacuum port could be a little pluged and when you run the stove on low the Combustion blower is running at it lowest and it might have enough Vacuum to keep the vacuum switch closed. This will kill the Auger circuit.
Check the vacuum hose for kinks or Bad spots and pull the hose off the vacuum swich and blow toward the Connection to the stove to clear the port.

The Auto mode will put the stove is a Shutdown cycle. The stove will not come back on right away. and if the stove is still hot when you try to relight the stove it might not lite because the Ignitior will not have power because the Limit switch will be still OPEN Preventing power to go to it when the stove is warm.
they have a new control board that helps with this problem and others
Listed on our parts page. BUT AT THIS TIME WE ARE OUT OF STOCK. We hope to have more next week.

Most pellet stove DO NOT like low settings. If you have LONG pellets this will make the stove go out at times also on low due to Less pellets feeding and the fire burns out to fast. If you pellets are long a few will drop then all at once a Buch will drop and smother the fire out. Most stoves have a trim setting for low to prevent this but the astoria does not so you have to compensate with a higher feed rate.
You may also have to adjust your air down lower if you run the stove on low for LONG times.

 

[hammmy]

Yes, it was used when we started using it. We've done some cleaning, but I haven't gone through the fans yet. I think you're on to something with the vacuum switch causing the low feed shutoff problem--I had the back off the stove yesterday trying to familiarize myself with the components, and I noticed the vacuum line was really soft. I think I have some 1/4" tubing around somewhere that I'll try substituting in to see if it helps.

As far as the stove not liking the lowest burn rate, it really doesn't seem to mind. There's always a flame going as long as the auger doesn't stop feeding.

I've seen the new control board for sale online, but I'm going to wait until the burn season is over before I give the stove a full servicing and probably upgrades. I understand there may be an airwash upgrade kit for the Astoria as well, although I don't know if that applies to this stove or not. Which reminds me: I managed to knock the brick-look cement backing board over one too many times while I was cleaning inside, and it cracked in half. Is this strictly a aesthetic item, or does it have a useful function that being cracked undermines?

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions.

 

[hearthtools]

Yes, it was used when we started using it. We've done some cleaning, but I haven't gone through the fans yet. I think you're on to something with the vacuum switch causing the low feed shutoff problem--I had the back off the stove yesterday trying to familiarize myself with the components, and I noticed the vacuum line was really soft. I think I have some 1/4" tubing around somewhere that I'll try substituting in to see if it helps.

As far as the stove not liking the lowest burn rate, it really doesn't seem to mind. There's always a flame going as long as the auger doesn't stop feeding.

I've seen the new control board for sale online, but I'm going to wait until the burn season is over before I give the stove a full servicing and probably upgrades. I understand there may be an airwash upgrade kit for the Astoria as well, although I don't know if that applies to this stove or not. Which reminds me: I managed to knock the brick-look cement backing board over one too many times while I was cleaning inside, and it cracked in half. Is this strictly a aesthetic item, or does it have a useful function that being cracked undermines?

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions.

If your stove is an Astoria then that fireback would be CAST IRON
and Yes I would have it in the stove.

 

[hammmy]

I'm going to have to disagree there: the backing board is not cast iron in this stove, unless Travis makes light cast iron that likes to crack in half when it falls over. I've seen that there are cast iron backings though, so I'll replace it with one of those.

 

[hammmy]

I swapped out the vacuum tubing with some silicone tubing I had around, which promptly melted through on the exhaust nipple end, so I put the old tubing back on. The old tubing had hardened around the nipple, so it may have developed a leak there previously that could have caused the low speed auger feed problem. I'll keep an eye on it to see if performance improves.

 

[hearthtools]

I'm going to have to disagree there: the backing board is not cast iron in this stove, unless Travis makes light cast iron that likes to crack in half when it falls over. I've seen that there are cast iron backings though, so I'll replace it with one of those.

if it is an astoria it will not be Cement
it is cast of some type of metal
and YES they did have a problem with some of the earlier stove cracking down the middle.
the solved this by not joining the cast below the drop shoot. they left a gap.

 

[Shane]

Rod is right. The astoria has never had anything but a cast iron fireback. It's simple fact.

 

[hammmy]

I'll take your word for it. It's cracked now either way.

 

[hearthtools]

I'll take your word for it. It's cracked now either way.

I think a replacement for it is around $80.00 plus shipping.
I dont stock it but can order it.
Check with your local travis dealer and give them this part #

Part Name: FIRE-BACK, CAST IRON, P12/P14#
BRICK PATTERN
SKU: 93005059
Description: Cast steel fireback in brick pattern. Held in firebox with a clip on each side of fireback.

 

[hammmy]

Hmm, $80 will teach me not to nudge the thing over inadvertently. Thanks for the part number.

 

[hammmy]

I think I've found the cause of the low output auger feed shut-off problem. Normally, the vacuum switch is mounted vertically, which allows the diaphragm to sort of fall over on its side and close the switch contact and open the circuit to the auger motor. When the vacuum switch is held horizontal, the vacuum force from the exhaust is enough to keep the diaphragm from closing the contact.

So the question becomes, is the vacuum switch tired and in need of replacement? Or is it simply not of sufficient quality? I've tested it in both horizontal positions; with the diaphragm facing up and no vacuum connected, there is insufficient force to close the contact. This suggests a tired spring inside the diaphragm assembly. With the diaphragm facing down, the contact remains closed with or without vacuum. The switch looks to work best at a 45-degree angle or so.

 

[hearthtools]

I think I've found the cause of the low output auger feed shut-off problem. Normally, the vacuum switch is mounted vertically, which allows the diaphragm to sort of fall over on its side and close the switch contact and open the circuit to the auger motor. When the vacuum switch is held horizontal, the vacuum force from the exhaust is enough to keep the diaphragm from closing the contact.

So the question becomes, is the vacuum switch tired and in need of replacement? Or is it simply not of sufficient quality? I've tested it in both horizontal positions; with the diaphragm facing up and no vacuum connected, there is insufficient force to close the contact. This suggests a tired spring inside the diaphragm assembly. With the diaphragm facing down, the contact remains closed with or without vacuum. The switch looks to work best at a 45-degree angle or so.

In 16 years I have NEVER had to replace a vacuum switch but yours could be bad.
You did buy it used and it could have been sitting around in the cold damp climate

You might not have enough vacuum.

 

[hammmy]

The stove wasn't sitting passively, it was the primary heat source for the people we bought it from.

I opened the exhaust fan housing today and cleaned it out. Aside from some scattered larger debris lying on the bottom of the housing, it was pretty clean. I ran an object through the vacuum port nipple to make sure it was clear. The hose looks functional. So unless the exhaust fan is under-performing at its low range, I'm gonna go with the vacuum switch being the problem. For a fact, the stove has run perfectly for about 6 hours with the vacuum switch assembly lying at an angle in the rear of the stove.

 

[restorer]

Hummmmm. Read the whole thread. The backing plate wasn't the issue. Who really wants an answer? I do, because i have no answer.

 

[hammmy]

I'm not following what was said in that last post.

The stove is still functioning properly at lowest settings. I'm off to price a vacuum switch assembly.

 

[Shane]

Very well could have been a vacuum switch. In 8 years I've replaced two on Whitfield ADVII-T pellet stoves & two or three on Quad 1100-I pellet inserts. Though it is an extremely uncommon part to have failure on.

 

[hammmy]

Yeah, I'm a little surprised myself. I've seen plenty of vacuum diaphragms on carburetors and such, but I don't recall coming across a failed one.

To be honest, I don't think I would buy this stove again. Between the erratic operation, intermittent (but annoyingly loud) fan vibration (from both fans), and the lack of online support from the manufacturer, I should have gone with a better brand. I understand that this stove is used, but 2001 isn't exactly a first generation pellet stove to be having problems like a flawed fireback, failed vacuum switch, and obviously poor fan mounts.

 

[Shane]

It was a newer model then. They did have some bugs. You need to get the fan mount upgrade and maybe the airwash upgrade. Give me your ser# and I'll let you know if you need it. The fireback simply didn't have enough room to expand and contract the new ones are fixed. Vacuum switch is a third party part and could have failed on any number of brands of stoves. Quite honestly Travis products are the cream of the crop. I'd put them next to any stove on the market. Internet support is a wholly different subject. I think that the dealer network should offer the support for the stoves. As for online support you have two dealer who don't stand ot make a dime off of you or even meet you for that matter taking their time to help. That's the caliber of dealerthat represents Travis & other fine hearth products. In addition as a pellet stove owner get used to replacing parts. That's life with a pellet stove.

 

[hammmy]

# 925063, build date of Oct. 2001.

I'm grateful that there is a third-party forum to ask for information on, and to those that take the trouble to answer. However, that doesn't count an ounce in Travis' favor in my opinion. And although the Astoria might have been relatively new in 2001, pellet stoves in general weren't--and things like firebacks, vacuum switches, and fan mounts should have been established technology within the industry by then. I don't work on or sell these stoves by trade, but if these faults count as par for the course from a cream of the crop manufacturer, then I'm now leery of pellet stoves in general.

 

[Shane]

# 925063, build date of Oct. 2001.

Sorry didn't notice in your first post. You do not need the airwash kit. Your stove was built before they changed the airwash in 2003.
- The board was changed in 2004 to improve low burn characteristics. It was changed again in 2006 to a digital control board. This board had several advantages, including diagnostic features the ability to program the board to work in either the large or small stoves etc. You probably want to get the board

-The convection blower mount will probably help as well Part#93007325

-They changed the rear panels in 2003 as well. They installed panels that have ventilation holes cut in them to increase air flow around the combustion blower. There were cases where the combustion blower could over heat and shut down unexpectedly.

However, that doesn’t count an ounce in Travis’ favor in my opinion.

They provide us, the dealers, with all the support we need to properly and efficiently offer tech support to the consumers. They train us etc. This type of network enables a stove manufacturer to minimize the tech dept. needed thus reducing overhead. It is a very popular business model in the industry and has worked well for 30 years. Heck VC one of the US larges manufacturers started out selling direct to consumer. They soon realized that while some problems can be solved over the phone, there were many that simply couldn't and the dealer network was established.

And although the Astoria might have been relatively new in 2001, pellet stoves in general weren’t--and things like firebacks, vacuum switches, and fan mounts should have been established technology within the industry by then.

Yours was the 63rd built. While pellet stoves had been around for a while the technology was changing at this point. Many stoves didn't have electronic ignition, on/off thermostat control etc.
- The fireback was a first cast iron one in the industry to my knowledge. Replacing the ceramic ones was costly. Some of the steel ones tended to warp over time and couldn't be reinstalled very easily. The cast was a great idea and once they figured out that they needed an expansion joint it seems to be a good thing.
The original fan mount was/is the industry standard. Look at Whitfield, Breckwell etc. Even the great Harman stove co. had some problems last year with convection blower issues.
Again the vacuum switch is a fluke. You just talked to two guys who've been in the industry a while and the amount of vacuum switches replaced by either of us could be counted on one hand.

While stove companies (or any other manufacturer for that matter) try to always produce a perfect product right off the bat sometimes flaws are found down the road. It's an unfortunate reality when dealing with a technology that is relatively new. Not to mention the fact that the variables in installation, altitude, fuel quality etc. seem to be infinate. I think that Travis produces fine products and I am proud to sell them. With that said bash away

 

[hammmy]

Well written! And thank you for the upgrade information, but I'm a bit confused about the airwash kit. If it was introduced in 2003, why wouldn't I need it? Or are you saying they changed it in 2003, then reverted designs later? For a fact, the glass takes no time at all to blacken.

I'll allow that I'm feeling a bit sour-grapes. When one buys used, one hopes for the best but should be prepared for at least some bad, but it's disappointing all the same. When I chose to go with a pellet stove, I had doubts about the choice: my brother had in the past what I now take to be an early '90s plain-jane stove that required all sorts of part replacement and fiddling to get to work, but when it worked it heated like a sonuvagun. So I knew that parts replacement was a possibility and over time a certainty--after all, nothing electrical is going to last all that long in a high temperature environment--but I had hoped that this stove being from the next decade that the advances in durability would be more profound than perhaps they are.

Adding these small failures to my doubts regarding whether I made the proper heating choice results in a bit of pessimism on my part, I suppose. Any future readers should bear this in mind: this is merely a single example, and your analysis of the stove should not be based solely upon it.

However, just to indulge my argumentative side a bit, I will say that although outsourcing active technical support to the dealer network is the efficient choice, placing passive support resources online--manuals, troubleshooting guides, FAQs, etc.--is not an unreasonable demand to make of any company in this century.

 

[hearthtools]

There was a lot of flaws on the Astoria at first.
it was a TOTAL design change from their other units and they rushed to get them out the door because Dealers where begging for pellet stoves again after the pellet slump of the Y2K erra.
They did not do a LONG TERM R&D test and We as the dealers had to find the problems after we installed them.
Travis does not deal with the end user. this is why they DO NOT SELL online and not to every tom dick and harry dealer.
you have to prove your self as a serviceing dealerto get any Travis line.

Two things about the upgraded
You do have a used stove
the Combustion blower may need to be replaced. they do go bad if the stove does not have a yearly service for they will over heat and the bushing will go bad.

The control Board:
the diagnostict will only work on the NEW stoves designed and wires for the diagnostic but the new board will work on ALL stoves.
I have them listed on my parts page.

Air was kit.
Out of 20 2001 - 2003 units I only had to put one kit on.
but I had to put on the Convection blower kit and ALL OF THEM.

 

[hammmy]

That reminds me; I saw a .pdf that described the control board upgrade, and the new diagnostic wiring required looked simple and involved parts (assuming they were the same parts) that my stove already has, so in essence it looked on "paper" like if I ran the new wires and attached a 4-prong molex connector, I could incorporate diagnostic features as well. I would guess the parts in question are different though, or there would simply be a molex connector with leads sold with or in addition to the control board upgrade kit. Or I just read the .pdf wrong--I wish I'd saved it, because now I can't seem to recall where I downloaded it from.

Edit: Silly me. The .pdf is from your hearthtools site =).

 

[Shane]

However, just to indulge my argumentative side a bit, I will say that although outsourcing active technical support to the dealer network is the efficient choice, placing passive support resources online--manuals, troubleshooting guides, FAQs, etc.--is not an unreasonable demand to make of any company in this century.

I agree. The owner's manual and troubleshooting guide should be available on the internet that's not unreasonable at all. And I do understand your pain and the fact that your disgruntled. I did have a couple of customers in the same boat as you, once the upgrades were made though they were/are very happy with the units.

but I’m a bit confused about the airwash kit. If it was introduced in 2003, why wouldn’t I need it? Or are you saying they changed it in 2003, then reverted designs later? For a fact, the glass takes no time at all to blacken.

The airwash was changed altogether in 2003. The doors did get sooty fast, especially on lower settings. They made it so that more air was drawn in through the airwash resulting in cleaner glass. It's my understanding that it worked beautifully at lower elevations. Up in the higher elevations though we had lots of trouble sluggish burning. Basically not enough air was being distributed to the burn pot and too much through the airwash. Through R&D they came up with a kit that reduced the amount of air being drawn into the airwash & put a silicone rubber seal on the hopper lid that increased airflow to the burn pot. This eliminated the sluggish burn problems without compromising the airwash function. Since your stove has the original airwash design it wouldn't benefit from the airwash kit.

Also like Rod said the combustion blower could be an issue. I would try the board first though, it did solve many problems that we had with sluggish burn.