Baby Bear

[jjs777_fzr]

Happened to come across this stove for sale locally in my area - couldn's resist.
The plan is to sand down the finish and apply some fresh paint. The firebricks look all there with a few cracks but nothing major. I'll need to add some gasket rope to the door. I understand from other posts a baffle would be a nice addition to the internals for a better burn.

 

[Todd67]

These Fisher stoves don't require a gasket rope on the door. From my research, and Coaly would know best, the only Fisher stoves that came with a gasket rope on the doors were the doors with glass on them.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

@ Todd thanks for the info about the gasket - had I dug deeper this was a well covered bit of info.

As a new owner of a Baby Bear - I offered some help to another seller on CL for a similar unit where they mentioned they recently did a new gasket for the door. Just in the hopes of helping someone out.
Is it just me or is there no hope for humanity in its simplest form ? See my words and then see their response.


I replied to the seller --->
just fyi - the fisher bear stoves do not use a gasket for the door - it is designed to be a metal on metal seal

to which the seller - Laura - replied with -->









For YOUR FYI..... ours has a gasket and always has!! Really what are you the craigslist monitor?





(broken link removed to http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/for/3199806629.html)
Fisher Wood Stove - "Baby Bear" model - $475 (Chelmsford)


Date: 2012-08-11, 9:19PM EDT
Reply to: stg8g-3199806629@sale.craigslist.org[Errors when replying to ads?]


Great condition. New door gasket. A few firebrick will need to be replaced. Heats approx. 1500 sq. ft.. Burns up to 24" length logs. 28"L X 15.5"W X 26.25"H. Center of flue is about 21" from floor. Uses 6" stove pipe. Weighs approx. 250 pounds. Can help you load onto your truck. Serious inquires only.

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just fyi - the fisher bear stoves do not use a gasket for the door - it is designed to be a metal on metal seal​

 

[Todd67]

I saw a lot of Fisher stoves being sold these past few months, and at least half of them were called by a different model name than they actually were. Too many people don't know know what they have, and don't seem to care. They put a fresh coat of paint on it and try to sell it to someone who doesn't know any better. $475 for the stove is way too high in my opinion. He says it takes 24" logs, but the Baby only takes 18" logs. I've seen several double door stoves listed as Papa bears, Papa's listed as Mama's, Mama's listed as Papa's, and every other combination out there. One seller even bragged about having his stove reach 900 degrees! That's the main reason I won't buy an old stove with a fresh coat of paint. I want to see what that stove looks like, and look for signs of over-firing and other abuse and neglect. I even saw a rusted out double door stove selling for $900, I think around Long Island. What are people thinking...?

 

[coaly]

See, as a test, Fisher put a rabbit in a new stove overnight with the flue blocked off and the air closed tight. Of course the stove was air tight, and the rabbit was dead in the morning. All-Nighter tried the same test, and the next morning, the rabbit was GONE ! So much for door fit and finish.
(This is only a 70's something stove salesman joke, no animals were harmed in the testing of Fisher Stoves)

One of the reasons the stove was built the way it was, (and for buying a Fisher) was to eliminate the need to replace door gasket material that was used on most other stoves. Many people that have bought used Fishers, thought since there was no gasket on the door, it must be missing. If the stove was sold again, the mistake was repeated by the next owner....... The door on a Baby Bear (Part Number 116-BB) is considered airtight as built without gasket material.

The door was cast flat, with a raised section around the perimeter that is even with the raised section that fits between the "Door Seal" which is 1 inch wide channel iron welded flat to the stove front. The Door Seal part number is 109-BB for the top and bottom, and 110-BB for the sides. The door was cast with close tolerances to make contact on 3 areas, all the way around on the edge and inside the channel iron. When the door is closed, you will notice there is a space between the door edge and stove front. This is due to the metal to metal contact of the thickness of the "door seal".

There is a note on the original prints that the door mating surface may be surfaced (machined smooth) and if so, all measurements are to be as specified after machining. It was not necessary to machine most doors.

If you have a stove with gasket material already glued on, when it needs replacing, use a wire wheel in a drill to remove all the dried gasket cement to get a good flat metal to metal contact with no gasket material.

I would only add gasket material if it burned too hard with the air shut down, showing air leakage around the door. Worn hinge pins or hinge pin holes is the common cause of loose fitting doors. Greasing the hinge pins yearly prevents this. Drilling the hinge plate and making a bushing for an original size (3/8 diameter) pin, or in extreme cases drilling the hinge plate and door for oversize pins may be necessary when the holes are already worn out of round. Usually new door pins tighten up the door.

If you really sleep better with a door gasket on your stove, you can usually add the thin flat type used for door glass without giving a door a closing problem. It does sound better when shut abruptly. When you go to replace the gasket, make sure all the gasket cement is removed, or applying more to new material will be too thick and prevent the door from closing properly.

 

[coaly]

Yes, there are a lot of people selling "double door" Papa Bear stoves, "Cast Iron" Fishers, and my favorite, "Original Fischer Stove". I even saw a "Fisher Pellet Stove Insert" on Craigslist MD. Didn't even ask;
(broken link removed to http://baltimore.craigslist.org/for/3187600995.html)
There is such a thing as an add on pellet burner, but it's not shown in the picture. Perhaps there are people that think all stoves are pellet stoves?

Tell Laura you're not the Craigslist Monitor, but you can send the Fisher Police since installing a door gasket is a summary offense.

 

[Todd67]

Very funny, Coaly. If anyone would get offended over such nonsense, it would be you, and I couldn't agree more. By the way, where do you buy your Stove Bright paint? No one sells it locally so we're going to have to get in online. How many cans will we need for the baby bear and mama bear? Thanks.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

I picked up my baby bear for $220. The seller was looking for $350 and I offered $200...and settled on $220.
Ordered the steel plate for the baffle off ebay for under $30.
I checked HD and Lowes...closest they had was 1/4inch 12x12 at Lowes.
I'll cut mine down to shape with the circular saw - using a std abrasive blade for cutting metal.

 

[coaly]

A local stove shop stocks it here, as well as the original PA fabricator in Factoryville PA that is still in business as a stove retailer and installer.
You'll need 3 cans for your two stoves. You can get 2 coats out of a can on a Baby Bear. One can just does a Mama, without doing the door, bottom and inside legs. So figure 1 1/2 cans for that one A Papa takes close to two cans.

 

[DianeB]

Miss my mamma bear - going into the barn wrapped and on a pallet - hoping some day to repair it.

 

[Todd67]

A local stove shop stocks it here, as well as the original PA fabricator in Factoryville PA that is still in business as a stove retailer and installer.
You'll need 3 cans for your two stoves. You can get 2 coats out of a can on a Baby Bear. One can just does a Mama, without doing the door, bottom and inside legs. So figure 1 1/2 cans for that one A Papa takes close to two cans.

Do you recommend 2 coats of paint? I've never painted a stove before.

I still need to get baffle plates for both of my stoves, too. The Mama Bear won't get installed until next year though. Too many other projects before that happens.

 

[coaly]

Yes, two light coats to keep it from running. I paint them in the sun, late morning. It dries so fast, I go over it a second time as soon as it's dry, then fire it. By 6 or 7 PM it's cold enough to bring inside.

 

[Todd67]

Yes, two light coats to keep it from running. I paint them in the sun, late morning. It dries so fast, I go over it a second time as soon as it's dry, then fire it. By 6 or 7 PM it's cold enough to bring inside.

Thanks, should be finished with it by the middle of September.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Well I recieved the plate steel for under $30 delivered from ebay. I thought someone used a 9x13 dimension for the baby bear baffle but 9 was too narrow for my stove. I cut a 10.5"x15" piece and it went in real nice. The 15" is front to back and left 6" between the front of the stove and the front baffle edge. It's only 1/4" so I hope it works out.

edit - meant to also say to cut the 1/4" inch plate steel I used a typical cheap abrasive metal cutting blade for my circular saw. I was researching the choices of a real blade now that I had the excuse to buy one - but the abrasive blade worked just fine and it didnt wear out as fast as I thought it would

 

[Todd67]

Well I recieved the plate steel for under $30 delivered from ebay. I thought someone used a 9x13 dimension for the baby bear baffle but 9 was too narrow for my stove. I cut a 10.5"x15" piece and it went in real nice. The 15" is front to back and left 6" between the front of the stove and the front baffle edge. It's only 1/4" so I hope it works out.

edit - meant to also say to cut the 1/4" inch plate steel I used a typical cheap abrasive metal cutting blade for my circular saw. I was researching the choices of a real blade now that I had the excuse to buy one - but the abrasive blade worked just fine and it didnt wear out as fast as I thought it would

I plan on measuring both stoves and ordering both plates at the same time. Coaly had mentioned on here that the different stove builders didn't use identical dimensions for the stoves, or something to that effect, which would result in a slightly different baffle size. I might end up cutting it with a cutoff wheel, but haven't thought that far ahead yet.

 

[coaly]

For a "Smoke Shelf Baffle"; The 13 inch measurement should be the width from side to side of a Baby Bear. 8 or 9 inches should be from front to back. The front edge should be pointed upwards towards the upper bend in the step top.

An extremely well drafting chimney may allow a larger baffle. Mathematically the venting space, (open space) or smoke space above the baffle must be at least the square inch area of the stove outlet. (which should be the chimney size all the way up).

The plate size you're describing sounds like it is flat, horizontal. That would make a reverse burn stove out of it, which is fine if you don't have smoke coming in when you open the door. My guess is that it's going to smoke.

 

[Todd67]

Coaly, does the baffle plate create more heat on the lower stove top than the upper stove top? I know Fisher designed the stove so that the upper stove top would be hotter than the lower, but it seems like the baffle plate would re-direct that heat toward the bend and the lower stove top. We'll check it with thermometers to see what range of temperatures we can get on both tops for cooking purposes until we get more familiar with the stove and different firewood characteristics.

 

[coaly]

It puts all the heat that would be at the collar and elbow to the stove top. I would say the distribution between upper and lower is about the same, just hotter.

I didn't get technical measuring the difference. I start my fried corn meal mush on the top about 5 AM and it's ready in 15 minutes with a stove that was going all night. It not only took longer without the baffle, but the heat that came off the rear of the stove was poited towards the fridge. Huge difference in keeping the fridge door cool with the stove in the middle of the kitchen. That's one of the reasons for changing to the Kitchen Queen. I start a fire around 5 on the upper summer grate during summer months, and remove the lid directly over the fire to cook. Breakfast is done by 5:30, the lid is put back on, fire dies, and the stove doesn't heat the house at all. That's only on one arm load of kindling. With the Fisher, I had to use the propane stove all summer.

 

[Todd67]

Thanks Coaly.

My wife is a great cook, and she did quite a bit of cooking on a wood stove when she was growing up. Her best friend lived with her grandparents on a farm that had no running water and no electricity. It won't take long for my wife to figure things out when it comes to cooking on that Fisher. If it were up to me to do the cooking, I might be throwing away a lot of bad dinners . Breakfast is easier for me. Using less wood to cook in the warmer months is always a positive thing, while not heating up the house. That's when we'll use the baby bear in the mud room, so we can keep the kitchen door closed and just heat the mud room. My wife also just bought a Stove Tec Rocket Stove (made in Eugene, Oregon). She used it outside to boil water for some pasta, and it boiled a large pan of water more than twice as fast as our kitchen stove. Very efficient, and it will go with us on all of our camping trips with the Boy Scouts.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

For a "Smoke Shelf Baffle"; The 13 inch measurement should be the width from side to side of a Baby Bear. 8 or 9 inches should be from front to back. The front edge should be pointed upwards towards the upper bend in the step top.

An extremely well drafting chimney may allow a larger baffle. Mathematically the venting space, (open space) or smoke space above the baffle must be at least the square inch area of the stove outlet. (which should be the chimney size all the way up).

The plate size you're describing sounds like it is flat, horizontal. That would make a reverse burn stove out of it, which is fine if you don't have smoke coming in when you open the door. My guess is that it's going to smoke.

You are correct - I installed it differently than what you folks did despite me reading the threads. I'll give it a try and see how it runs - and of course report back if anyone is interested.
Looking over the cigar burn Upland model 27 I used last year - that baffle seems to not adhere to the mathematical numbers where venting space is concerned - but I know different stove different behavior.
I like playing with things like this...so if it smokes I'll try angling my baffle up and if that doesnt work I'll take it out and recut to a smaller dimension.
Thanks for this Fisher topic area - it's fun reading all the info.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

I've read many of the Fisher posts and have yet to come across a BTU rating on any of the stoves. I've seen square footage but what about BTU numbers ? I'd be curious of what the baby,mama and papa output numbers look like.

Here's the baffle I installed - not angled and a bit larger than what others have done - we'll see how it runs later in the season.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

I didn't expect lows in the 40's this soon...and since I just finished removing the surface rust and tried the newly arrived can of satin black stove brite - I figured why not start a small fire. I removed the Upland 27 and installed the baby bear.
I'm running a larger than recommended smoke shelf (baffle) and figured why not I'm smarter than the avg bear (ughhh) and wanted to see if it would run good.
Well it ran - but regardless of the air setting I was getting some puff backs through the dial.
I'll go and remove the baffle and resize.
I'm not giving up...I'm thinking of something different to try as for shape and size.
Maybe I should just buy another sheet and experiment some more instead of recutting the same piece.
Maybe the Upland works so well with its smoke shelf baffle because the rotary dial air intake actually has a lower entry point and a high entry point to create the right kind of turbulence versus this Fisher with its single air dial/single point of entry.
At least I accomplished getting the stove up to 225F for the first fire - good enough to begin curing the steel baffle and starting to set the recent application of paint.
On the plus side - I did run the stove with the door open and the screen in place - the smoke had no issues swirling around up and over the baffle.
The puff back I doubt is due to venting issues - my class A although external is at least 25ft - along with 4FT of black pipe - so puff back must be solely due to me playing with the smoke shelf.

 

[coaly]

Try angling the baffle plate up in the front by setting it on small pieces of broken firebrick. It's easy to experiment with different size shim pieces. The heat will want to rise up the plate better pulling air with it through the intake.

The Baby Bear has the most tendency to puff back the intake than any other model. The Mama and Papa have a smooth roar when getting them going, and the Baby flutters like an oil burner not adjusted right. Nature of the beast.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Okay - quick update - with pics and temp readings.
I left the baffle size as is and found no puff back while setting dial to less than 1.5 turns open.

IR temp reading taken from various parts of the stove - 45 minutes into the burn (no visible smoke from chimney) and air intake dial 1/2 turn open.

Upper Top - 460F


Angle - 547F


Lower Top - 659F


Side - 386F


Rear - 406F


Rear Shield - 195F


Outside Temp on Wall Stone for Reference - 56F w/ambient outside 49F



A brief and non-professional clip showing the burn from the night prior.
Oh and this a.m. after 11hours the stove was at 125F and some coals leftover - enough to get the fire going again with some bits of kindling.

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[Northwoods555]

Coaly, I signed up just so I could ask you a question. I have an old Baby bear. I have read all the posts on Baby Bear baffles and have seen how baffling it can be.

Here is my quest (ion). I made a baffle, I put it in. All is well. But the roof of the baby bear has a stepped up top. Do I want smoke opening between the baffle edge and the stove top to occur at the low part of the stove top, or in the high part of the stove top? Does that question make sense?

My northern Minnesota log cabin isn't completely finished yet and has a lot of air leaks and a high ceiling. Baby Bear was having a tough time warming her up this past deer season. It got amazingly better when I added the experimental baffle I saw you talking about, but I want to make sure I do it the best way (so I know if I better start looking for a Teenage Bear or something)...

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and topics.