Bang For Buck Setup From Scratch

[Mustbethetg]

I am planning to build a home (28x44 ranch, garage in basement) this summer and I am set on some kind of indoor wood boiler with oil backup. Of course by the time I get to the heating system I will really be stretching the dollars. What would the guru's reccommend? I grew up on an old wood boiler and I am not afraid of the commitment especially with oil peekin at $4 bucks a gallon. Dedicated oil and wood units? Combo? Superstore? Gasification may be out of my price range, but maybe there are some lesser known companies with good products. Any help would be appreciated. I have read some bashing of the Benjamin units, not a good option? I plan on insulating the 1st floor from the basement/garage, so what would be the best means of regulating the temperature above freezing down there?

 

[Nofossil]

I am planning to build a home (28x44 ranch, garage in basement) this summer and I am set on some kind of indoor wood boiler with oil backup. Of course by the time I get to the heating system I will really be stretching the dollars. What would the guru's reccommend? I grew up on an old wood boiler and I am not afraid of the commitment especially with oil peekin at $4 bucks a gallon. Dedicated oil and wood units? Combo? Superstore? Gasification may be out of my price range, but maybe there are some lesser known companies with good products. Any help would be appreciated. I have read some bashing of the Benjamin units, not a good option? I plan on insulating the 1st floor from the basement/garage, so what would be the best means of regulating the temperature above freezing down there?

Welcome to the forum. There are a few things that you can do at this step in the process that will make your life better (and cheaper) down the road. My $.02:

1) Plan a boiler room with good access to the outside for easier wood handling.
2) Plan a spot for heat storage tank(s), even if you wont have them right away. If you'll have them in the basement, make sure you have large enough doorways.
3) Plan a spot for your DHW tank close to but above your storage
4) Think about sites for solar hot water panels. They can be very cost effective, and if you can find a south facing slope that's lower than your storage, you can do a very simple thermosiphon system at some point.
5) Plumb your system with shutoffs for each major component so that you can replace items easily. If you have to, start out with a used conventional wood boiler, but make it easy to upgrade to a gasifier when the time comes.
6) Study this forum and other sources. Design your ultimate system and plan for that. Install what you can afford, but make it easy to add components later on.
7) Do radiant if you can.

 

[Mustbethetg]

Thanks for your insight, nofossil.
1, 2 - Garage door access
3 - This must go above storage? And by storage you mean serious gallons, not a superstore?
4 - Not possible
5 - I will make sure of it
6 - I wish I had more time as there could be months of reading here. Unfortunately I have already begun coordinating the house event, but I will keep options open.
7 - Too costly and i do like using a programable stat while no one is around during the week days. Baseboard heat comes around quickly upon return.

There has been some mention of the Greenfire boilers made in Maine. Any thoughts? I just emailed them looking for a price.

 

[kenny chaos]

What's that greenwood 100 go for? Went to site, no prices. Button says; Find local dealer, okay, nope, they want all my personal info.

 

[Nofossil]

Thanks for your insight, nofossil.
1, 2 - Garage door access
3 - This must go above storage? And by storage you mean serious gallons, not a superstore?
4 - Not possible
5 - I will make sure of it
6 - I wish I had more time as there could be months of reading here. Unfortunately I have already begun coordinating the house event, but I will keep options open.
7 - Too costly and i do like using a programable stat while no one is around during the week days. Baseboard heat comes around quickly upon return.

There has been some mention of the Greenfire boilers made in Maine. Any thoughts? I just emailed them looking for a price.

By storage, I mean serious gallons. Not required, but it improves quality of life with wood heat. You can skip days and maintain a more constant house temperature. With any boiler but especially gasifiers, you will get more efficient operation with storage.

I'm not familiar with relative merits of non-gasifier boilers. My impression is that there is a large divide in terms of performance. Gasifiers tend to be pretty similar in performance, and I think any of them are way more efficient that conventional boilers. I think there may be a lot more variation between different designs of conventional boilers.

To me, one of the major choices has to be gasifier vs. conventional. The gasifier is a lot more money up front. If wood is free and smoke / creosote are not major concerns, then it may no be worth the extra. However, if I couldn't afford a gasifier I would probably but a used conventional boiler and start saving up to buy a gasifier when its time to replace it.

 

[Mustbethetg]

Well it appears I will be building my house on ledge, hence my heating system budget is dwindling along with the rest of the house. Even if I have to go conventional for now....anybody with any insight on the "best/cheapest" total setup w/ backup for the $ to heat 1200 sq feet? The smallest Greenfire would run $5500 for the unit alone as the cheapest gasifier I could find. Hell I might even have to go direct vent if my luck keeps up. Your responses are appreciated and this site has been very informative.

 

[Nofossil]

I'm currently replacing my 20 year old oil boiler with a tankless direct vent propane water heater. It only gets used when my solar hot water can't keep up - a couple times a week on average, spring and fall. It also will serve as my backup space heating when we go away for a few days during the winter. Total system cost looks like about $1600. I already have the baseboards, tstats etc.

I'll post results and pictures when it's in.

 

[steam man]

Well it appears I will be building my house on ledge, hence my heating system budget is dwindling along with the rest of the house. Even if I have to go conventional for now....anybody with any insight on the "best/cheapest" total setup w/ backup for the $ to heat 1200 sq feet? The smallest Greenfire would run $5500 for the unit alone as the cheapest gasifier I could find. Hell I might even have to go direct vent if my luck keeps up. Your responses are appreciated and this site has been very informative.

Plan for a good quality radiant heat system with provision for adding the wood boiler and storage in. I would also consider solar at least for DHW, get the pipes in to the roof. Its just easier than retrofitting. Plan for everything in stages and do it when you can afford it. You can also think about a used conventional wood boiler or even just a wood stove temporarily. I've even seen used oil boilers that I would consider using. Don't skimp on super insulating your house. And use good windows. At 1200 sq ft, a little solar and a wood stove will be about all you'll need for your heat load.

 

[webbie]

I'd agree to spend the $$ now on the house and a decent distribution system - perhaps put a space heating wood stove or fireplace (or pellet unit) in the living area, with the idea that when the cash builds up you'll think about an efficient boiler.

In terms of used wood boilers, see if you can find a Tarm MB30 or MB40.........other than that, not too many worth while that I know of.

 

[hkobus]

I'm currently replacing my 20 year old oil boiler with a tankless direct vent propane water heater. It only gets used when my solar hot water can't keep up - a couple times a week on average, spring and fall. It also will serve as my backup space heating when we go away for a few days during the winter. Total system cost looks like about $1600. I already have the baseboards, tstats etc.

I'll post results and pictures when it's in.

Sorry for diggin up this long ago post, Nofossil. I tried your site tonight to see if you had completed this project. It is something I have thought about after going without any back-up last season. I have been told that this winter there better be back-up...! (low WAF without)
Did you install a tankless, and if so, how is it functioning? The other question I have is the min pressure requirement of most units is above the max on my system, could this be bypassed or modified for this use?
Any comments appreciated.

Henk.

 

[SteveJ]

Henk,

I think nofossil took a well deserved break...

His schematic with the tankless is in the thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/20310/.

He went with a Takagi T-Kjr and I think he eliminated the Z5 path in the schematic.

Please confirm all with nofossil directly - I just wanted to point you to the latest info I had.

Steve

 

[hkobus]

Thanks Steve,

I had checked most of those treads, just was not able to get to his site last night to check the status for sure. I guess my main concern is not so much the output Btu's since I will use the setback when we are gone for extended periods of time. I was looking at the spec's of the units available at our local building supplies like Rona and Home Depot, the all have a minimum pressure around the 14 to 20 Lbs. How does one get around that, or are there units that are only flow and temp sensing?

Now I also noticed in you sig. that you have propane backup, what unit are you using? ( I will need the NG versions, but in principle the same)

Thanks,

Henk.

 

[Nofossil]

Nofossil did indeed take a break. Well-deserved or not is open to debate....

I've not finished installation of my propane tankless unit, though I do have all the hardware now. It's on the agenda, but not critical yet. My solar is pretty much keeping up - only 12 minutes of oil in the last month for hot water. Another 48 minutes for the hot tub due to careless management of the comfort priority switch :-(

 

[SteveJ]

nofossil,

I hear you...

I have looked long and hard but have not found any control or component to handle careless management :-(

Steve