Banning incandescent bulbs canada

[Swedishchef]

I knew this was coming so I stocked up on incandescent bulbs.

I just don't get it. With my $0.06/KWh electricity rate, I love incadescent bulbs. Making fluorescent bulbs uses lots of electricity, produces tons of greenhouse gases and let's not mention all the mercury years from now that is found in the bulbs (fluorescent bulbs are lit when current passes through mercury gas in the bulb)? I have a degree in Chemistry and let's just say picking up mercury in it's pure form is like picking up jello with oven mitts. It's a liquid metal. There are products that help the cleanup but you can't just sweep it up. And considering it accumulates on the brain stem, my brain needs no more help in self destruction. It does enough of that on it's own.

LED bulbs are great. But paying $30 each for an equivalent 50W recessed light gets expensive when you have 18 recessed lights in your basement.

My 2 cents.

Andrew

PS, I bought enough incandescent bulbs to last me 2-3 years

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Interesting, wonder if this will include the "rough service" bulbs we use on site. House is about halfway converted to LED from CFL now so I assume I can just keep on with that replacement as needed. We needed the LED for all the dimming lights so that was the reason for that switch.

Ah yes Mercury…played with that stuff as a kid I expect many of my generation did. Correlation between that & the spike in Alzheimer's….I wonder now. Or could be that we are living longer….perhaps past our best before dates.

Have a good one Andrew & if you have some spare time on your hands slide some of that -51 down to visit our friends in the south….no reason we should have all the fun.

Well at least until mid Feb….crew is going to Orlando then so 40 days of normal winter for our friends. Then they can have their spring like winter back.

 

[semipro]

wonder if this will include the "rough service" bulbs we use on site.

These are exempted along with many other types of bulbs.

Good reference on the American legislation: http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/na/consumer/inspire-and-learn/lighting-legislation/

 

[windchaser]

As far as I know right now only 100W incandescent light bulbs are banned...with 40W & 60W bulbs being added to the ban list in the future. Service and specialty bulbs I believe will remain exempt.

 

[semipro]

Andrew,
You may have missed this recent thread. You'd probably find it interesting.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/incandescent-outlaw.120878/

 

[eclecticcottage]

Dang...I was hoping to bootleg in some when we needed them, lol. CFLS are pure evil to migraine sufferers like myself, and my only experiance with LEDs was christmas lights that I had to return because of the flicker that would have surely given me a migraine....The funny thing is DH gets them (migraines) too and couldn't see the flicker. I hear people all the time claiming florecents, etc don't flicker, the thing is they just aren't sensitive enough to it to know. I guess I need to see if I can find a few boxes now....we use less electric than most people so anyone that thinks I should suffer to use a little less electric...well...I won't go there. People should try unplugging the microwave and shutting off their cable box when not in use instead of telling me their greener because of a few lightbulbs.

 

[Swedishchef]

Interesting, wonder if this will include the "rough service" bulbs we use on site. House is about halfway converted to LED from CFL now so I assume I can just keep on with that replacement as needed. We needed the LED for all the dimming lights so that was the reason for that switch.

Ah yes Mercury…played with that stuff as a kid I expect many of my generation did. Correlation between that & the spike in Alzheimer's….I wonder now. Or could be that we are living longer….perhaps past our best before dates.

Have a good one Andrew & if you have some spare time on your hands slide some of that -51 down to visit our friends in the south….no reason we should have all the fun.

Well at least until mid Feb….crew is going to Orlando then so 40 days of normal winter for our friends. Then they can have their spring like winter back.

I couldn't afford $400 worth of bulbs for my recessed lights. And the day I pay $30 for A SINGLE BULB is the day U build my dreamhome for retirement. Otherwise someone else gets to enjoy my sexy lights!

yes, I would LOVE to pass along the cold.

A

 

[Swedishchef]

As far as I know right now only 100W incandescent light bulbs are banned...with 40W & 60W bulbs being added to the ban list in the future. Service and specialty bulbs I believe will remain exempt.

Agreed. But when you want to see something, ya need 100W. Outside, bathroom vanity etc etc. I use smaller wattage light if the recepticle requires it (lamps, etc) That's about it....What about you?

 

[Swedishchef]

Andrew,
You may have missed this recent thread. You'd probably find it interesting.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/incandescent-outlaw.120878/

Yes I did miss it..and now it's in the can. Canada is a little behind the US on this ban. We just banned 100 watt bulbs.

While I understand the reasoning of banning the bulbs, what about the cost it takes to make an LED of CFL bulb? The greenhouse gases during manufacturing? We always say "100 watts could be replaced by 20 watts of LED" but perhaps we need to look at the bigger picture....maybe not.

A

 

[billb3]

Agreed. But when you want to see something, ya need 100W.

Or more.
Our kitchen light used 5 40watt bulbs and would be on 16 hours a day.
5x40=200 watts
Right over the kitchen table. Fantastic light for projects, reading the paper, surfing with the ipad .....
200x16=3200watts per day
3200/1000=3.2kwh/day
electric is 21¢ per kwh here, so cost $0.672 per day to use
for which the power company sent me a bill every month for $20.16 , just for the light over the table.

I replaced all 5 with Sylvania LED A19 bulbs that cost $15.00 each.
which use 7 watts each
and the light output is even better than the incandescents

5x7=35
35x16= 560/day
560/1000= 0.56 kwh/day
0.56 x 21¢ =11.7¢ per day
for which Nstar sends an electric bill every month for $3.52

$20.16 -$3.528= $16.63
That $16.63 savings paid for the 5 bulbs with change leftover, in 5 months.
I now have almost 17 bucks extra a month for other things. plus I'm not screwing in a burnt out $1.00 each incandescant bulb once a month

15x5=75
A 75 dollar investment is putting $200 in my pocket every year.


Those LED bulbs are now 3 years old and still glowing
They are now $7 each with a electric company instant rebate incentive to buy and use green power.


After 3 years, I now have not given away $525 to Nstar.
That's also $525.00 I didn't spend to pollute the air that you breathe, as 99.9% of the power generated for me is with non-renewable fossil fuels.

 

[jharkin]

This same discussion has come up many times over the years here. Its NOT a ban, just a higher efficiency standard. If you don't like led/cfl then buy halogen.

Do you oppose CAFE standards also? And energy star?

Btw I can find LEDs under $10, don't know where you shop......

 

[eclecticcottage]

Btw I can find LEDs under $10, don't know where you shop......

In Canada

 

[jharkin]

I know... And I was a bit harsh ( sorry Andrew) but always surprises me when otherwise very well read and environmentally conscious folks read into the light bulb conspiracy theories and freak out.

It will all be ok

 

[Swedishchef]

I do shop in Canada. Things are simply more expensive here. LEDs are expensive here! And my electricity rate is cheap. It's not everywhere that generates most of their electricity with coal
http://www.lowes.ca/led-light-bulbs_1527.html
http://www.homedepot.ca/catalog/led-bulbs/172458

TO convert all the lights on my house right now it would cost me about $1500 in LED bulbs.

I do have halogens, lots of them already Jeremy

I like the idea of saving energy. I love it even. Hence why I have R24 basement walls. But people need to do their research first before just jumping on a bandwagon. Remember Asbestos? Wow that stuff was great! Cheap and an amazing insulator. Yet now if the word is mentioned people run away screaming for the purchase of a house that contains any...The government (in Canada anyways) was supporting the Asbestos mines (until recently).

My concern if that of the CFL. That's all. We are allowed to install mercury containing lightbulbs withina household? Because, according to the US EPA, it saves coal burning (and some mercury is found in coal). And since our economy does whatever yours does, we (Canada) jumped on board. "Small amounts of mercury can be released into the environment when CFLs break, or if they are improperly disposed of at the end of their useful lives. Despite these emissions, the use of CFLs actually helps reduce total mercury emissions in the U.S. because of their significant energy savings. Using energy-saving CFLs reduces demand for electricity, which in turn reduces the amount of coal burned by power plants, which reduces emissions of mercury when the coal is burned." http://www2.epa.gov/cfl/what-are-connections-between-mercury-and-cfls

Not to change the subject but look at what Ontario did: every NEW house construction MUST have R20 FULL basement walls. Also needed are high attic R values, etc. In Quebec it is mandatory on all new buildings to have an air exchanger, R5 foam (taped) on the outside, Low E ARgon windows, etc etc. Personally I feel that these new higher efficiency standards are much better than changing a lightbulb design. If I have R 5 in my walls and it is -25 outside, changing a few lightbulbs will be the least of my worries.

In fact, $1000 in lightbulbs is a lot of extra insulation/air sealing on a house!

But I do understand that the only retrofitting change that can be implemented nationwide is...lightbulbs!

 

[jharkin]

I can understand the concern, but the mercury amount is really tiny and only an issue if they break. Long tube florescent have much more mercury and we have all lived around those for decades. Both are inconsequential in the big scheme of things compared to power plant commissions.

Part of the reason I get worked up about this issue is my background as an engineer. Engineers don't discover new theory (scientists do), rather our job is to take the best new ideas from science and put them to practical use in the simplest and most efficient (cost, energy, etc) way possible. From that point of view, the incandescent lamp is one of the least efficient engineering solutions ever. A 60w light bulb only uses 2 % of the input energy to do its primary function. two percent! Put in perspective, if your woodstove was 2% efficient, rather than burning 3 cords a year you would burn over 100. Or your 30mpg car would be getting only 3mpg.

Even 19th century steam locomotives are more efficient than incandescent lamps. So are rumford style open fireplaces!


CFL is marginally better at around 3-5%. LED has the potential to go to 20% or better but so far the commercially available ones are 10 at best. I'm waiting for some real innovation here... eventually.


(Disclaimer - I don't love CFL. I use them where there is no better option but I'm trying to convert to LED as much as is financially feasable. At over $0.15/kWh its a much better return here)

 

[Swedishchef]

A 60w light bulb only uses 2 % of the input energy to do its primary funciton. two percent!

That is something I did not know.! Crazy!

I understand why people aren't worked up about mercury in light bulbs. They have only heard of it in old school thermometers. But I did work with it in my past life.

There's only 3-5mg per bulb. I just hope they tell people to sweep it up, put it in a bag for disposal and not suck it up with a vaccuum (which blows the vapours everywhere).

After reading about this bulb change all AM, I am sold. (I still have CFL lighting).

The Department Natural Resources says new regulations would deliver between $749 million and $2.4 billion in energy and greenhouse gas savings for Canadians, including 7.5 megatonnes of reduced annual greenhouse-gas emissions in 2025!

 

[greg13]

OK, just a few thoughts.

First, greenhouse gas during manufacture. Are the figures on a bulb to bulb build? if so remember that you are only building 1 CFL to 7 incandescent bulbs and 1 LED to 20 incandescent bulbs so if you are looking at just figures they may not be telling the whole truth.

The prices on LEDs HAVE come down here. They were in the $30 range, they have dropped to under $10 in places.

Bulbs & Migraines. I have them at times too. An observation that I have made is LED tail lights on cars. There are some that just plain bug me, They almost seem to have a very high speed strobe to them, others I am fine with. I do know that there are many types of CFLs that offer differing bulb hues from a cool Yellowish white to bright white, there are also some that take a few seconds to warm up and others that are instant on.
I guess that if you are bothered by bulbs, try a few different types and color ranges and see if you can find one that works for you.

Bottom line is that we all will just HAVE to learn to live with it, so try to make the best of it. Just don't get me started on health insurance.

Greg

 

[semipro]

That is something I did not know.! Crazy!

I understand why people aren't worked up about mercury in light bulbs. They have only heard of it in old school thermometers. But I did work with it in my past life.

There's only 3-5mg per bulb. I just hope they tell people to sweep it up, put it in a bag for disposal and not suck it up with a vaccuum (which blows the vapours everywhere).

Major sources of mercury in houses are older thermostats and gas meters, probably much more so than fluorescent bulbs, at least in terms of volume/mass.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480493/
http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/hazardouswaste/mercury_therm_act.cfm

As mentioned in another post the form of mercury makes a big difference in the risk. Elemental mercury is a lesser risk that methylated mercury.
(broken link removed to http://rd.tetratech.com/DraftHgBrochurev2.pdf)

 

[semipro]

I've also found I find many LEDs annoying. It took a long time to find acceptable LED lights for our tree and some car tail lights are really bad. It seems to depend, in part, on the presence and nature of the lens rather than the LEDs themselves.

We've been buying the Cree models at HD and found them very pleasant to be around. They look very much like a legacy bulb and put out a great quality light.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-40W...ht-Bulb-BA19-04527OMF-12DE26-2U100/204476612#

 

[Swedishchef]

Jeremy: why are halogen bulbs still accepted when the lifespan is the same as an incedescent?

 

[Swedishchef]

Major sources of mercury in houses are older thermostats and gas meters, probably much more so than fluorescent bulbs, at least in terms of volume/mass.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480493/
http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/hazardouswaste/mercury_therm_act.cfm

As mentioned in another post the form of mercury makes a big difference in the risk. Elemental mercury is a lesser risk that methylated mercury.
(broken link removed to http://rd.tetratech.com/DraftHgBrochurev2.pdf)

I understand...but I guess I am just a little paranoid since I worked with mercury in a lab...

 

[woodgeek]

Jeremy: why are halogen bulbs still accepted when the lifespan is the same as an incedescent?

In the US, it was a 'backdoor' on the ban, in case substitutes did not become available. They are ~25% more efficient than other incandescents, so they made the cut. They will be phased out in 2020 down here.

 

[flyingcow]

In Canada

A 99 cent cheeseburger we have over here is 1.39 in Canada. A gallon of milk is $6 to $7. A liter of gas is $1.25- ish. Makes up for 6 cents a KWh electricity.

 

[flyingcow]

Somewhere. probably here, i read that LED's last a lot longer than CFL's?? Hence the high prices?

 

[eclecticcottage]

A 99 cent cheeseburger we have over here is 1.39 in Canada. A gallon of milk is $6 to $7. A liter of gas is $1.25- ish. Makes up for 6 cents a KWh electricity.

We can see Toronto some nights, our neighbors live there (and use the house next door as a cottage). They get a lot shipped here, for them, friends and family-they stay for a few days and take it home so no GST/PST and it's cheaper even with shipping. We see a lot of Ontario plates at the grocery store even.