Sale of Incandescent and CFL Bulbs banned

[peakbagger]

I have to say, I am not that upset to see them go away https://www.yahoo.com/news/energy-dept-ban-sale-light-100351213.html
I realize to some that it was a political statement to keep incandescent's but they can still use dollar bills to light their stoves

CFLs and fluorescents might have been an okay transition but my experience is that I did not get the life out of them and I found that the light quality degraded as they aged. They also were crap for cool places. The one legacy is that to legally dispose of them most trash programs treat them as hazardous waste due to the trace amounts of mercury used in them.

Another aspect of fluorescents is that a lot of specially designed bulb configurations got designed over the years and in many cases the replacements were hard to find and frequently of much lower quality. I have high end ceiling fan with a very specific circular fixture that I had issues finding a bulb for previously and expect when it goes out, it will be the end of using it for lighting. I also have Torchiere style lights with the same issue. I did convert one to LED but no dimmer and its definitely a hack install.

 

[EbS-P]

I have to say, I am not that upset to see them go away https://www.yahoo.com/news/energy-dept-ban-sale-light-100351213.html
I realize to some that it was a political statement to keep incandescent's but they can still use dollar bills to light their stoves

CFLs and fluorescents might have been an okay transition but my experience is that I did not get the life out of them and I found that the light quality degraded as they aged. They also were crap for cool places. The one legacy is that to legally dispose of them most trash programs treat them as hazardous waste due to the trace amounts of mercury used in them.

Another aspect of fluorescents is that a lot of specially designed bulb configurations got designed over the years and in many cases the replacements were hard to find and frequently of much lower quality. I have high end ceiling fan with a very specific circular fixture that I had issues finding a bulb for previously and expect when it goes out, it will be the end of using it for lighting. I also have Torchiere style lights with the same issue. I did convert one to LED but no dimmer and its definitely a hack install.

I have found LEDs superior to CFL and FL for the last few years.

Most ceiling gas the light fixture can be swapped. By going to that trouble I just might swap the whole fan to one that pairs with my smart home.

 

[woodgeek]

I'm still waiting for the US to require minimum lum/W ratings for LEDs, as I think the UK does.

First gen LED's were like 70-80 lum/W, which are now clearly gas guzzlers compared to modern ones that are 150+ lum/W.

I was an early adopter of CFLs, and had a very large one burn itself up once, smoking up the whole house (and getting my X to call the fire dept). I have been using up my CFLs for a decade now, and might have a couple still hiding somewhere. I still have some nice CFL torchieres, that will probably last a looog time in rooms that are dark 99% of the time.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

In the correct application, where the extra heat is desirable, incandescent bulbs still do a great job!

 

[gthomas785]

LEDs are the way of the future for sure, but they're not perfect yet. I thought this was a good article about the growing pains and accurately explains some of my own recent frustrations with LED lighting.

https://nymag.com/strategist/article/led-light-bulbs-investigation.html

 

[peakbagger]

I must admit over the years I have used incandescent bulbs for heating purposes. When building concrete chimneys in cold weather, I would cover the top and put a trouble light in the clean out overnight until the next day. It kept it warm enough so the mortar would not freeze. I also had a friend that switched his boiler over from kerosene to #2. It had been a camp and the oil tank was outside (in Maine) so #2 would not flow in cold weather. By enclosing the tank with an insulated box and putting two 100 watt incandescent on a low temperature switch in the bottom of the enclosure, the setup kept the oil warm enough that he could run #2 (a big savings). I also knew folks who insisted that putting a lightbulb under the hood would make their car start in cold weather, I didnt buy it as most of the heat would rise and maybe melt the snow off the hood but they thought it worked.

 

[tlc1976]

I’m still using up a few CFLs that my electric company handed out years ago. For little used lights like the laundry room, it’s something like 13w vs 9. I’ll run them till they burn out.

I put 4 large CFLs in the shop years ago when I needed more light. $17 each, compared to $75 each for LED at the time. The budget didn’t allow for LED, and I didn’t use it enough for a ROI. Even at today’s LED prices which are about what CFLs were back then. it’s not worth it in my case to replace functional bulbs. Once they burn out, I’ll go LED.

I see no reason to buy new CFLs these days. LEDs have come down in price to where if you’re swapping out incandescent, might as well go LED. I’ve even seen LEDs in the dollar store.

The only thing I wonder about are appliance bulbs like ovens and dryers. Can LED handle that service? I’ll have to look.

 

[KipL]

One if the funniest things I've ever seen....was in a small sandwich/pizza shop in a nearby small town. Next to the main counter, they had one of those shelved glass enclosures intended to keep pizza slices warm until purchased, and it was full of pizza slices. I almost lost it when I looked at the top of it and realized they'd replaced the incandescent light (which is supposed to keep the inside warm) with a CFL!

 

[gthomas785]

One if the funniest things I've ever seen....was in a small sandwich/pizza shop in a nearby small town. Next to the main counter, they had one of those shelved glass enclosures intended to keep pizza slices warm until purchased, and it was full of pizza slices. I almost lost it when I looked at the top of it and realized they'd replaced the incandescent light (which is supposed to keep the inside warm) with a CFL!

Oh you didn't know? They've switched over to the new HPPW (heat pump pizza warmer)

 

[woodgeek]

One if the funniest things I've ever seen....was in a small sandwich/pizza shop in a nearby small town. Next to the main counter, they had one of those shelved glass enclosures intended to keep pizza slices warm until purchased, and it was full of pizza slices. I almost lost it when I looked at the top of it and realized they'd replaced the incandescent light (which is supposed to keep the inside warm) with a CFL!

Everyone knows you're supposed to use the red CFLs for that application.

 

[yooperdave]

Remember when CFLs came out? The market was flooded with them maybe 20ish years now? It was the another big fix. Heck, even the power companies were giving them out for free!

Didn't take long for that to go down the drain!

But, lets look at this a bit more. The main reason to outlaw CFLs and incandescent bulbs is so we all consume less electricity, no?

But, in conforming to this new mandate, lets all buy EVs!

 

[GrumpyDad]

I bought these tiny LED spot lights and installed them everywhere in new construction.
Plugged them all in, worked great with a matching leviton dimmer.
Then one burned out, then another. SMH.
So then I run out and buy replacements, and these are the kind that have the bevel/trim plate built in so it's not like I can run out and just buy a standard 'bulb'. When I need them Im sure they will be obsolete or wont be made anymore.
I now have two boxes of 10 sitting, doing nothing. Immediately after I bought them, nothing else burned out.
Im crossing my fingers.
My LED outdoor bulbs dont do well. I replace those as much as I did incandescent.

 

[bholler]

Remember when CFLs came out? The market was flooded with them maybe 20ish years now? It was the another big fix. Heck, even the power companies were giving them out for free!

Didn't take long for that to go down the drain!

But, lets look at this a bit more. The main reason to outlaw CFLs and incandescent bulbs is so we all consume less electricity, no?

But, in conforming to this new mandate, lets all buy EVs!

It's about using less power in general to accomplish the same thing. Cfls were a step up on efficency then LEDs another.

EVs simply are more efficient at using the stored power in order to move the vehicle and it's contents. Are they perfect absolutely not but a step in the right direction

 

[woodgeek]

Remember when CFLs came out? The market was flooded with them maybe 20ish years now? It was the another big fix. Heck, even the power companies were giving them out for free!

Didn't take long for that to go down the drain!

But, lets look at this a bit more. The main reason to outlaw CFLs and incandescent bulbs is so we all consume less electricity, no?

But, in conforming to this new mandate, lets all buy EVs!

The point of CFLs was to reduce CO2 emissions. Each one of the billions sold offset between 0.5 and 1 ton of CO2 emissions.

Imagine how much worse the climate would be now if we hadn't rolled them out when we did. Even you would be able to feel it!

 

[GrumpyDad]

The point of CFLs was to reduce CO2 emissions. Each one of the billions sold offset between 0.5 and 1 ton of CO2 emissions.

Imagine how much worse the climate would be now if we hadn't rolled them out when we did. Even you would be able to feel it!

yea imagine. Yet...it's nothing but doom and gloom in the news. Nobody is tracking the progress on the bad, and that seems disingenuous.
Doesnt feel like it did much of anything other than cost 10 times the price for a lightbulb.
My electric bill didnt move when we went to CFLs then LEDs.

 

[bholler]

yea imagine. Yet...it's nothing but doom and gloom in the news. Nobody is tracking the progress on the bad, and that seems disingenuous.
Doesnt feel like it did much of anything other than cost 10 times the price for a lightbulb.
My electric bill didnt move when we went to CFLs then LEDs.

Are you actually claiming that LEDs don't use far less energy than incandescent bulbs? And people are tracking the progress

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I can see it not budging going from CFL to LED, but going from 60 or 100watt bulbs to 19 or so should make a noticeable difference if you turn the lights on.

Some people don’t use a lot of electricity to begin with, so their realized savings would be lower.

 

[bholler]

I can see it not budging going from CFL to LED, but going from 60 or 100watt bulbs to 19 or so should make a noticeable difference if you turn the lights on.

Some people don’t use a lot of electricity to begin with, so their realized savings would be lower.

I saw a drop at our old house when we switched. It wasn't drastic but added up across all houses it's allot of energy

 

[tlc1976]

I can see it not budging going from CFL to LED, but going from 60 or 100watt bulbs to 19 or so should make a noticeable difference if you turn the lights on.

Some people don’t use a lot of electricity to begin with, so their realized savings would be lower.

Same here, the difference from CFL to LED is not huge. It’s not worth it for me to switch just for the sake of switching. When they die, I go LED. Incandescent however, was a big reduction and it was worth it to get off those.

And at one point, LEDs were a lot more expensive than incandescent or CFL. Now LEDs have come down to about the same price as an incandescent. I don’t even remember the last time I saw a CFL in the store. They bridged a gap but they won’t be missed. Especially when they burned out, I had one go up in smoke too. A little scary since I hadn’t seen that before. Also they didn’t fit well in some fixtures. Most LEDs mimic the shape of an incandescent.

 

[yooperdave]

It's about using less power in general to accomplish the same thing. Cfls were a step up on efficency then LEDs another.

EVs simply are more efficient at using the stored power in order to move the vehicle and it's contents. Are they perfect absolutely not but a step in the right direction

OK, I've got it now! So in order to use less power, we should use more power!

Perfect! I can see the light!

 

[bholler]

OK, I've got it now! So in order to use less power, we should use more power!

Perfect! I can see the light!

How do you get that from what I said????

More electricity yes. But less overall power it's pretty simple

 

[yooperdave]

The point of CFLs was to reduce CO2 emissions. Each one of the billions sold offset between 0.5 and 1 ton of CO2 emissions.

Imagine how much worse the climate would be now if we hadn't rolled them out when we did. Even you would be able to feel it!

Imagine that! Who knew?

I have a hard time imagining just where you got so danged smart .....all of that knowledge....yet here you are on a wood burning site day in/day out for the past 15 or so years arguing with any member that has an opposing view to yours. Certainly, retirement held larger plans than that?

Imagine how this site is presented to the newest members....like the poor guy from Wisconsin that must feel so welcomed!

 

[yooperdave]

How do you get that from what I said????

More electricity yes. But less overall power it's pretty simple

Great, another member that likes to argue endlessly. And a site moderator at that!

I'll try to explain it.

Some of the states are outlawing incandescent and cfl bulbs thus mandating the use of LED bulbs to save power.

Some states are also outlawing the use of small ICE....lawn mowers, chainsaws, etc etc.....also to save power.

Any of the power saved will not offset the power consumed by the push for everyone to switch to EVs and the power needed to charge them.

So, we're using less power (for the LED bulbs) but using more power for the EVs.

 

[bholler]

Great, another member that likes to argue endlessly. And a site moderator at that!

I'll try to explain it.

Some of the states are outlawing incandescent and cfl bulbs thus mandating the use of LED bulbs to save power.

Some states are also outlawing the use of small ICE....lawn mowers, chainsaws, etc etc.....also to save power.

Any of the power saved will not offset the power consumed by the push for everyone to switch to EVs and the power needed to charge them.

So, we're using less power (for the LED bulbs) but using more power for the EVs.

Your only looking at electricity useage but completely ignoring overall power inputs. What about all the fuel not being used by those things. Electric motors are far more efficient than ice motors.

Now I will absolutely agree we are not ready to transition at this point completely. The battery tech just isn't there yet. But it will never get there if we don't work on it

 

[NHWS]

Re light bulbs: Team Orange advertises 100 watt incandescent bulbs A19/E26 bulbs for around $1.75 each, and 13 watt LEDs rated at 10% higher lumens for about $4.00 each. Don't have stats on average life for each, but changing an incandescent bulb in my house used to be at least a monthly chore (# of bulbs v. life expectancy). Changing an LED bulb is a rare event. Best guess: 4 to 5 months v. 4 to 5 years. 365 days * 8 hours/day * 100 w / 1000 w per kw * $0.11 per kw = $32 for an incandescent, plus 2.5 bulbs @ $1.75 ea = around $36. For an LED at 13 w and 3 years life per bulb it's around $5.50.

Most ICE produce more power per weight than most electric motors. When power to weight matters (chain saws), ICE is currently a better choice.

Fossil fuels will run out, maybe sooner, maybe later. It is more possible to generate electric power from renewal sources than it is to create more fossil fuel. Even if electric power does less work per weight or volume of input (now), it will eventually be necessary to switch. Electric power production has climate effects, too, almost certainly underestimated, but it is still going to be necessary to switch away from fossil fuels to something renewable. Better to start attempting the change now, before there is no time to investigate the alternatives.