Barber chair insurance?

[osagebow]

I recently cut a 20" oak that had a rot hole at the base. I wasn't sure if the rot had gone up into the trunk. I looped and fastened some chain around the trunk in case it split. Anyone else do this, or am I missing something as far as physics go?

The trunk was sound where my cuts went, so nothing happened.

 

[macattack_ga]

Try the shallow wedge, plunge cut method.

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[xman23]

That sounds like a great idea. A few wraps of a chain or good rope. Not that I'm any kind of pro, or know other methods. I've had it happen once. Afterwards thinking about it, I had a good pull on the tree to help the proper direction. But it can happen with the right tree.

 

[Jags]

Never personally done it, but I have heard an old timey pro around my parts use this method. He is well respected around this area, so I will tend to believe it has merit.

 

[woodhog73]

On an oak that big and heavy I can't imagine ropes going to hold it. If it's a leaner and the trunk splits, the ropes gonna snap pretty darn quick. The ropes tree climbers use to lower limbs I believe are roughly 50,000 lbs tensile strength. As a tree service worker on occasion the amount of stretch I've personally seen in rope used for rigging just from the drop of a 6inch diameter oak limb as it's cut is huge. Were talking a 1,500 or 2,000 pound limb ?? Nothing compared to an entire half of a tree starting to split vertically in the center.

As for chain same thing . It better be big and heavy. It's likely to snap and who knows the forces released when a chain breaks could be fierce. If the chain wacks you in the head it could kill you. In the arm it could break your arm.

I'd probably Plunge cut through the center where it's rotted. Shallow and small angled hinge allowing the tree to jump from the stump as early as possible. Cut back and around from your center bore cut. As opposed to a traditional back cut. It's a crap shoot. Barber chairs have gotten the best of even the most experienced fellers.

Be careful with whatever you decide

 

[xman23]

So under perfect conditions as we cut the tree, its balanced. I don't think it takes a lot of force to barber chair when your half way through and the tree starts to go over. Seams to me it wouldn't take a lot to keep it together until we get further through the tree. I just can't envision multiple wraps of 1/2 nylon rope and chains braking. I'll give it a try, better than doing what I've done in the past, nothing.

 

[woodhog73]

I just can't envision multiple wraps of 1/2 nylon rope and chains braking.

It can and it probably will. trees that are 20 to 30 inch diameter and 150 plus feet tall ? It can and it probably will.

Honestly I'm not trying to be rude. I make a living and pay my bills with a chainsaw. Obviously this Doesn't mean I'm right or know everything and don't pretend to but I've seem a lot that can go wrong.

The idea of this to me reminds me of the the idea of joe blow neighbor trying to trim tall tree limbs from a ladder. Not professional and more importantly than that not safe. Not even close to safe. Ladders and tree trimming don't belong in the same sentence. And on a 20 inch oak that I'm assuming is 3 or 4 stories tall a 1/2 inch general purpose nylon rope is gonna snap like a worn out elastic and has no business pulling over or lowering any heavy limb.

If your going to try this At a minimum a 3/4 inch bull rope?? I've got a few hundred feet of bull rope that cost me dam near $400 bucks. Very very expensive rope that I wouldn't want to risk snapping on this type of deal. I use it to pull over large trees and for rigging when lowering huge tree limbs and tree trunks to the ground from an aerial position.

And I'm pretty sure my 3/4 inch bull rope would snap in the scenario brought up in this thread. But if your going to try wrapping a tree to avoid a barber chair you will need heavier rope than 1/2 inch nylon rope found at Home Depot or the local hardware store I'm fairly certain of that.

Most of the 1/2 inch nylon rope I've seen is rated at between 5,000 lbs and 10,000 lbs. way too light strength rating. If you are planning on this I would suggest making the investment in some heavy duty rope made for rigging. It isn't cheap but you get what you pay for.

 

[Jags]

Not sure a rope is the proper tool to use for this application. I was thinking more of a logging chain...

 

[macattack_ga]

Correction "open notch and bore method". Whole purpose is to prevent barber chairs

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[woodhog73]

Correction "open notch and bore method". Whole purpose is to prevent barber chairs

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Agree I've done both open cuts and shallow jump cuts but beyond the face cut the really critical step is the bore/plung cut ( same thing) and cut back towards the tension side of the tree ( back side where you'd start a traditional back cut). The idea is you leave a small section of wood in the back that gets cut last. That section of wood ( along with your hinge wood up front) is bearing the load and keeping the tree standing and from splitting vertically, as opposed to the center of the tree taking the load. If the center is cut last and it can't hold the tree that's where you can have a split and resulting barber chair. If you used a trigger of wood on the back side and started cutting in the center backwards, the center really can't split because it's already been seperated from the trunk by your cut. Instead the trigger wood on the back breaks ( or you cut it) and the tree falls as intended ( hopefully)

I've heard people call it ( the piece if wood on the back side that's left for last) a trigger or strap. I've always just called it a plunge cut through the center. The people I cut with know that means cutting back and use it in heavy leaners, or any tree that looks like it might split up the center ( barber chair)

As for the rope I agree with Jags above. I was pointing out if a person is insistent on using a rope in this fashion best to get some good rigging Bull rope. But it's expensive .

I think chain is stronger but I'd hate to have that snap on me. I'm thinking you would need some extra heavy chain.

 

[osagebow]

Thanks for the replies. I had some 1/2" forestry poly pulling it slightly where I needed to go, and a second chain at 90 degrees as insurance. (great $120 investment on the rope, BTW.) the trunk wrap chain was insurance against possible rot, not a barber chair due to lean. I saw a video of a large western rotten tree blowing up because the plunge cut was being done in a rotted trunk. The sound section near the bark snapped out as the middle pretty much disintegrated. I think a few wraps of heavy chain would at least buy a second or two of escape time, as it directs a significant portion of the energy into a longer split, but stops/slows the barber chair. I tend to try and over engineer any falls that are dicey. This one was wonderfully uneventful.

For the record,I have spent over $1,200 on trees I definitely couldn't handle, and highly recommend that also. Sometimes you need pros with big toys and bigger....insurance.

 

[BringinHeat]

For the record,I have spent over $1,200 on trees I definitely couldn't handle, and highly recommend that also. Sometimes you need pros with big toys and bigger....insurance.

I hear this.

I've cut over 30 trees on my property and had 10 of them done by pros. Electrical lines, cottage, and other things made those trees way out of my league. So I bit the bullet and spent a few bucks instead of doing it myself and spending A LOT of bucks or worse later.

 

[woodhog73]

I hear this.

I've cut over 30 trees on my property and had 10 of them done by pros. Electrical lines, cottage, and other things made those trees way out of my league. So I bit the bullet and spent a few bucks instead of doing it myself and spending A LOT of bucks or worse later.

I hear ya. Sometimes a tree is just to risky, too close to houses or whatever to make the risk of dropping it on your own worth it.

The good news for probably most people on this site who cut their own firewood is if you do have to hire a tree service once in awhile, at least you can do your own clean up, bucking logs, etc. So your only paying for the removal.

Then you can take your time cleaning it and making firewood on your own schedule, and save all that money that people who don't burn wood , or those who don't have the time , ability, or the desire to do physical work and get their hands dirty , have to pay for . everything including clean up, brush chipping, haul away logs, that gets very expensive in a hurry if you were paying for all that !!