Basement vs. Living room for wood insert?

[CJRages]

When you have/had the home inspected find out how much insulation is in your attic (the R-value) . It might be worth putting more batts or blowing in additional insulation. If you decide to install the stove in the basement you'll want to prevent as much heat from escaping the upstairs level as possible.

 

[Dix]

I think a floor plan is going to help here.

What would the layout matter?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

That will show us how and if the heat is going to migrate upstairs or if it would be better off with an upstairs stove to start with.

So a layout of the basement? I sort of gave it but I guess I could go into more detail...

If you come down the steps from the main level you can only go left. To that left on the far wall is the fireplace (maybe 15-20 feet from the staircase). Directly to the left and in back of the staircase is open space. It's an L shaped large room really. Diagonally opposite the landing to the staircase is the laundry room. And to the rear of the L is the walkout/exit. There are other rooms but all rooms in the basement have doors and they will be closed normally.

Hopefully that helps.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

One of the entire house.

 

[emt1581]

Random thoughts . . .

* Congrats on the new home purchase . . . it's always exciting to buy and move into a new home.

Thanks! Yeah it's exciting to move into a new home. Plus we have been looking for the past 6 months and came close a few times...It's great to be done with the searching and bargaining!

* You say the basement is finished . . . but is it insulated . . . and if so, how well insulated? This makes a difference . . . if the folks just ran some furring strips and attached the pine board to the walls then I would guess you would still lose a lot of heat to the surrounding cement . . . but if they put up some foam insulation before putting on the pine boards you might be OK to go with a stove in the basement.

This is a good question. I have to see if the estate owners know (daughters/sisters). The wood, if knocked on, sounds solid though. plus I know above the drop ceiling there is VERY thick insulation.

* When I was first looking at the idea of heating with wood I thought having a basement install would be great . . . which is ironic since I don't even have a basement. I figured it would keep the mess out of the house and free up more space in the living area. However, I have since changed my mind. The only time I would put a wood-burning appliance in a basement now is if I had a wood boiler or a wood furnace which would use ductwork or plumbing to carry the heated air/water throughout my entire home. I say this since a) the only real way it seems to be even remotely efficient with a woodstove and get as many BTUs as you can is to have an insulated basement (a friend of mine has a basement stove . . . and they heat their home . . . but they are also losing a lot of heat) and b) once you experience a woodstove running in your living space you cannot imagine what it would be like to not have one there -- the feel of the heat radiating out and warming you, the sound of the crackling fire, the view of the dancing flames and the secondary burn light show, the smell of the potpourri simmering on the stove top and just simply the ability to quickly and easily tell where you are in the burning cycle . . .

Now you're talking about a stove. I'm not sure she'd go for that. No fireplace, just a big black box with a glass door standing in the middle of the living room. I can't say she'd ever warm to such an idea...but I'll see what she says.

* So if I'm reading this correctly the house is set up so you can simply knock out a small section of the wall and connect to an existing flue in the living room . . . if this is true this would be a no-brainer for me . . . open up that small section of wall (after checking to make sure this is actually true) and build a hearth per your stove's specs and start enjoying the heat, the sound and the view with a free standing stove. Other than a bit of drywall work, the most difficult thing in my mind would be building the hearth . . . and this can be done simply and easily for less than $250 . . . now on the otherhand if you're determined to go with a wood-burning insert and want to build an actual fireplace . . . well then you're looking at a bit more money . . . personally I would spend the money on an attractive stove and hearth . . . and get the most BTUs possible.

You mention a stove...and a hearth. I thought stoves didn't need a hearth, they are freestanding. No?? I always thought you just needed to connect the vent/tube to the wall that leads to the chimney. If not, would you please show me a pic or two of what you're talking about.

* It's been said before, but I'll say it again . . . put your stove where you spend the bulk of your time. You'll enjoy the heat more and the "extras" that come with the sights, sounds and smells . . . and you'll be able to monitor it better.

* We like pictures . . . we're very visually oriented. We like pictures of woodpiles . . . pictures of stoves . . . and even pictures of potential areas where a stove could be installed . . . and yes a lay-out of the entire house, square footage, etc. would be useful . . . and as mentioned we like pictures of all of these things . . . or at least a drawing.

As far as pics go, once we're in I'll snap a few of the said areas. I'm certainly not going to just share an entire layout of pics for safety/security reasons...but just the areas I don't have a problem with. I will need someone I can email them to so they can post them for me though.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

A simple stick drawing of the house floors layout is a big help with figuring out how heat will circulate. Lots of people have posted floorplans here and this is the first time I have heard of security concerns. We don't need to know where the wine cellar is going nor the security safe. Just the basic room layout.

 

[emt1581]

A simple stick drawing of the house floors layout is a big help with figuring out how heat will circulate. Lots of people have posted floorplans here and this is the first time I have heard of security concerns. We don't need to know where the wine cellar is going nor the security safe. Just the basic room layout.

So you want to know wall, door, and stair placement in the home. What sort of things would you look for to determine a response/solution? I'm not sure how to draw an outline online...


I will say in both floors, the chimney is on complete opposite side/wall from the stair cases.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

That's right, just the basics. Draw it in Paint, MS Word or other program with simple drawing tools and save it as a .bmp or .jpg file. Then post it to the thread.

 

[emt1581]

That's right, just the basics. Draw it in Paint, MS Word or other program with simple drawing tools and save it as a .bmp or .jpg file. Then post it to the thread.

Well mine is a pretty standard colonial design. Let me see if I can search the forums for a similar floorplan.

-Emt1581

 

[oldspark]

I see you have a couple of stairways for the heat to go up but how are you getting the cool air back to basement?

 

[emt1581]

I see you have a couple of stairways for the heat to go up but how are you getting the cool air back to basement?

Cool air back to the basement? What do you mean?

There is an outside door down there (walkout) so I suppose if it gets too toasty I can just crack that for a few minutes. But it still doesn't sound like a good solution long term.

What are your suggestions?

As far as similar layouts, I haven't found any. I don't have word (I use openoffice because my trial to office ran out on my netbook). So I'm not sure how to draw a layout. I can describe it though to create a mental pic if that helps.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[daleeper]

I cannot address all your questions, but I will through out a few things where I can. I have a freestanding stove in the basement, and have the 8-10 degree difference in temperature between the floors that some were discussing. Our house does not have ideal air movement for a wood stove in the basement to get the hot air upstairs, and it does not sound like yours does either. I have tried several different methods of moving that air, and have had limited success, but does help keep the gas furnace and heat pump from running too much. What the stove in the basement does do for us is to get that concrete warmed up, and heats an office space that I spend a lot of time in. If I did not have that stove down there, I would freeze to death working even with the small portable heaters I use when the stove is not running. It takes about a week of stove burning to warm that mass up so that my feet don't freeze.

It has been said several times on this forum that a wood stove is a space heater, and I believe that is the case. If you do have a flue available upstairs already, I would be considering a freestanding stove upstairs, along with the insert in the fireplace downstairs. I would guess that you could install a hearth and new wood stove for significantly less money upstairs than you can a fireplace, and will heat the space better than most fireplaces.

 

[Dix]

emt, even a hand drawn, scanned in layout would be a help.

 

[ddddddden]

Lack of illustrations aside, I place my bet with Bart and Daleeper. You'd have a tough time heating the whole house from the basement.

 

[emt1581]

I cannot address all your questions, but I will through out a few things where I can. I have a freestanding stove in the basement, and have the 8-10 degree difference in temperature between the floors that some were discussing. Our house does not have ideal air movement for a wood stove in the basement to get the hot air upstairs, and it does not sound like yours does either. I have tried several different methods of moving that air, and have had limited success, but does help keep the gas furnace and heat pump from running too much. What the stove in the basement does do for us is to get that concrete warmed up, and heats an office space that I spend a lot of time in. If I did not have that stove down there, I would freeze to death working even with the small portable heaters I use when the stove is not running. It takes about a week of stove burning to warm that mass up so that my feet don't freeze.

It has been said several times on this forum that a wood stove is a space heater, and I believe that is the case. If you do have a flue available upstairs already, I would be considering a freestanding stove upstairs, along with the insert in the fireplace downstairs. I would guess that you could install a hearth and new wood stove for significantly less money upstairs than you can a fireplace, and will heat the space better than most fireplaces.

I've seen it mentioned many MANY times here that wood stoves are space heaters...I have to get some clarification here...

Are yall saying that 1) Woodstoves are inefficient and only comparable to one of those little space heaters? That's definitely not been my experience growing up. 2) Woodstoves are designed to heat certain space/sqft. amount? 3) Only going to heat the space they are installed in?? Again, I'm just sort of confused on what yall are trying to express with that statement.

I'm still VERY curious what sort of hearth is being spoken of for a stove. Again, I thought it was just a freestanding box with a pipe going into the wall (drywall) no?

Or do you still have to build a brick platform and wall section to handle the heat, embers when loading, etc.?

As I said before, I doubt she's going to be thrilled with the stove idea. Insert is more eye-appealing know what I mean?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[ddddddden]

The "space heater" thing refers to the way in which a stove spreads heat around the house, or maybe doesn't do so. Typically, it's hard to get the heat to spread into the corners of the house farthest from the stove. This is why someone mentioned cold air return to the stove room. This is reportedly the most effective way to get the heat to spread.

 

[emt1581]

Lack of illustrations aside, I place my bet with Bart and Daleeper. You'd have a tough time heating the whole house from the basement.

Ok, what about installing vents? Or let me ask it this way...what would be some options to make it efficient if done from the basement fireplace??

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[ddddddden]

Well, I have no experience with vents, etc, but, as someone mentioned, code typically restricts this because a fire could spread via your heat path. I still think heating the whole house from the basement fireplace is a bad bet. . .especially if that fireplace is in an exterior chimney(acts like a heat sink and loses heat to outdoors.)

 

[emt1581]

The "space heater" thing refers to the way in which a stove spreads heat around the house, or maybe doesn't do so. Typically, it's hard to get the heat to spread into the corners of the house farthest from the stove. This is why someone mentioned cold air return to the stove room. This is reportedly the most effective way to get the heat to spread.

Hmm ok. I kinda get it. But the cold air return has me confused. Is this so that whatever air is not yet heated goes by the stove and then gets heated? I've never heard of that before. What are some ways that this is done?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

Well, I have no experience with vents, etc, but, as someone mentioned, code typically restricts this because a fire could spread via your heat path. I still think heating the whole house

Right, but again, what are some ways other than those corner/doorway fans that people have used to spread the heat more efficiently?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[ddddddden]

Um. . .$$$ forced air wood-burning furnace.

 

[emt1581]

Um. . .forced air wood-burning furnace.

Ha! Funny...but ridiculous story...

We were throwing around the idea of going almost totally gas for this house....gas water heater, 2 fireplaces, stove, and oven. The gas company said if we went with a gas furnace they'd run the line from down the street for $300. Without the gas furnace they'd want over $3000

I realize they are out to make money but holy crap!! I would think all the stuff we're installing would use a LOT more gas than just a furnace!

So here we are in a wood burning stove/insert thread....

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

I see you have a couple of stairways for the heat to go up but how are you getting the cool air back to basement?

Cool air back to the basement? What do you mean?

There is an outside door down there (walkout) so I suppose if it gets too toasty I can just crack that for a few minutes. But it still doesn't sound like a good solution long term.

What are your suggestions?

As far as similar layouts, I haven't found any. I don't have word (I use openoffice because my trial to office ran out on my netbook). So I'm not sure how to draw a layout. I can describe it though to create a mental pic if that helps.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Open Office has a complete drawing program in it. It's called "Draw".

I would suggest more background reading on the topic. There are a lot of threads on this topic and some good articles. Search for "basement heating". Here's some to get you started:

http://www.woodheat.org/planning/heatdist.htm
http://www.woodheat.org/woodbook/woodbook.pdf
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/23330/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/20970/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/19624/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/22429/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/23441/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/five_essentials

 

[ddddddden]

Seriously, there are furnaces that burn wood instead of gas. That's basically what you are saying that you want, but they start @ $5k, I think. p.s. F the gas co's.

 

[emt1581]

I see you have a couple of stairways for the heat to go up but how are you getting the cool air back to basement?

Cool air back to the basement? What do you mean?

There is an outside door down there (walkout) so I suppose if it gets too toasty I can just crack that for a few minutes. But it still doesn't sound like a good solution long term.

What are your suggestions?

As far as similar layouts, I haven't found any. I don't have word (I use openoffice because my trial to office ran out on my netbook). So I'm not sure how to draw a layout. I can describe it though to create a mental pic if that helps.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Open Office has a complete drawing program in it. It's called "Draw".

I would suggest more background reading on the topic. There are a lot of threads on this topic and some good articles. Search for "basement heating". Here's some to get you started:

http://www.woodheat.org/planning/heatdist.htm
http://www.woodheat.org/woodbook/woodbook.pdf
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/23330/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/20970/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/19624/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/22429/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/23441/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/five_essentials

Wow! Thanks for those links. I didn't see any of those threads when searching before. Interesting you should link to "wood heat"...that is the name of the place my parents bought their wood insert from back in the 90's. They're still in business but with a limited selection and slightly higher prices than others in the area.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

Seriously, there are furnaces that burn wood instead of gas. That's basically what you are saying that you want, but they start @ $5k, I think. p.s. F the gas co's.

Well we plan to put central A/C in at some point but the wood furnace would mean duct work and such which...after the $5K would be pretty expensive in the grand scheme of things. Our cheapest option would be to just buy a $2K insert and slap it in the basement. But it looks like, unless I get one big enough and figure out an efficient way to circulate the air...that's not gonna happen. Next cheapest would be a stove in the living room...then a fireplace/insert in the living room...and after that we're back at the wood furnace/ductwork again...

But I'm learning!

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[oldspark]

I know you will run into an explanation but the cold air return allows the cool air to be cycled back to heat source and be reheated.