Basement vs. Living room for wood insert?

[emt1581]

RE: Stoves . . . ah, not all stoves look the same . . . sure if you want a traditional matte black cast iron stove you can get one . . . or a flat black steel stove . . . but many folks find the soapstone stoves or the enameled stoves to be mighty pretty . . . and some say it becomes a focal point of their home . . . especially in the winter. Myself, I went with a matte black stove . . . a) it was cheaper, b) it was available right then . . . however if I had to do anything different I might have sprung for the fancier looking stove.

RE: Hearth . . . all free standing stoves still need a hearth . . . well unless they're built right on a concrete pad . . . the hearth (also known as the hearth pad) protects the area from the heat radiating from the bottom of the stove in some cases and protects nearby combustible flooring (i.e. wood floor, carpeting, etc.) from errant sparks, embers or the coals which sometimes roll out of the stove.

Yeah, we gotta do some homework on hearth designs after "we" decide which stove to get.

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

I'm still plodding trhough this thread, but one of the first things you need to do to help us help you is post a plan of your house . . . don't worry . . . none of us will attempt to sneak in and steal your Ritz crackers at night . . . posting a plan showing the rough dimensions of the house, stairs, lay-out, etc. will help us determine what type of heating system might best suit your needs. For example, if you had a 5,000 square foot house there are few, if any, woodstoves that would suit your needs . . . and instead most folks would suggest you only look at a wood boiler or wood furnace . . . depending on your lay-out we might suggest nixxing the hook-ups and going somewhere else completely.

Second . . . if you're serious about heating with wood you don't want to go cheap . . . "slapping" an appliance (that routinely burns at 600-1,200 degrees F) into place and hoping to save money by doing so is not a safe, long-term view. Trust me . . . it is far better to spend a little extra . . . and have a warm house and a safe house.

Finally, be aware that paying for the wood burning insert or stove is only half of the equation . . . you may or may not be able to use the existing flue . . . or you may be able to use it and need to install a liner . . . or you may end up having to put in a whole other chimney (Class A or masonry) . . . and then you will most likely need to build a hearth . . . heating with wood can be a bit expensive at the get-go . . . but it has long term economic benefits if you stick with it.

As far as a layout, I didn't draw a pic but I did give a decent worded layout. If I can figure it out, I'll happily share a general layout. That's to be continued though...

I won't skimp on quality in terms of buying a stove, but I'm not going to get obnoxiously expensive either. Again efficiency is the name of the game for us.

If we can't use what's already there we're not putting anything additional in. No way I'm going to pay for another chimney and such. In that case we'd go with a basement insert/stove and just settle for heating the bedroom up before we hop in bed...

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

This is promising . . . a seller that seems to know his stuff. What product lines does he carry?

Also . . . other folks and myself keep trying to help you out here, but you don't seem to be hearing what we're saying . . . you need to think outside of the box . . . you may not be restricted to just one or two places in the home . . . for example you may be able to put a woodstove somewhere else in the house you haven't even considered . . . granted it may cost you the price of a Class A chimney . . . but if doing so means you're safe and warm and it looks good . . . then the price may be worth it.

http://stovesnstuff.com/woodstoves.html


Unless a "Class A Chimney" is less than $1000 there's no way we can afford to do such a thing so again, we have to make do with what we have.

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

Here's one "sistah's" perspective on the stove versus insert issue. Before I had a stove, all I knew was fireplaces, which I loved. I felt cheated when I couldn't find a home that I liked with a fireplace and had to settle for a woodstove. After I lit the first fire in it, you could not have paid me a million bucks to have an insert instead. Woodstoves are magical in a way that inserts just aren't, nor are fireplaces. An insert just feels to me like a thick glass barrier between me and the fireplace. A handsome woodstove is pure joy just on its own terms, radiates heat on five sides and doesn't require a noisy blower to warm up the room. I'm a total, complete, abject convert.

But on the esthetics, there are woodstoves and there are woodstoves. Some are un-handsome and utilitarian "black boxes," but others are the handsomest piece of furniture in any room, even when they're not going.

Good perspective . . . and it's worth noting that Gyrfalcon has one of those very sharp looking soapstone stoves . . . I tell you EMT . . . you might want to show your wife some of these stoves.

Hearthstone and Harman were the only two I saw that had soap stone models.

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

I advised on "get your wood now" on page 1, I believe.

Who the hell remembers back that far?!?!

It does seem like a lot do it though. We close on the 22nd. I plan to figure out what we're going with and get two cords ASAP then cover them up with a tarp and wait for winter like a kid on Christmas Eve

-Emt1581

Cover top only, after it's stacked.

If the weather is good, hold of on the covering. Wood needs air flow to dry.

+1 tothe Dixie Chick. I'll remember the Woodburning Sisters!

Dixie Chicks...when they first came out I was in the 2nd row at one of their concerts.....

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

The definition of seasoned varies . . . most folks here say the best definition is wood that is below X% moisture level as determined by a moisture meter (I think they say 22% . . . maybe it was 28% moisture level . . . but don't hold me to that.) Me, I'm just a dumb Maine hick . . . I cut, split and stack my wood at least a year in advance . . . and truth be told I'm now two years ahead . . . which pretty much guarantees me that the wood I have will be seasoned enough to burn without sizzling, spitting water, smoking up the glass or not igniting easily . . . all issues folks typically experience in the first year when they buy "seasoned" wood and expect it to be great for burning.

As others have mentioned . . . get your wood as early as possible . . . because even if folks say it is seasoned it may not truly be seasoned. Heck, some old time wood burners consider wood that was cut down in the winter and left as tree length until bucked and split in the fall seasoned . . . and I would wager a week's pay that this so-called seasoned wood would not pass muster in most EPA woodstoves.

Reputable? Ask around . . . but be aware that many folks who are burning in pre-EPA woodstoves don't know the difference between truly seasoned wood. Your best bet when it comes to buying wood is to buy early and give yourself some time . . . otherwise buy a moisture meter to check the dealer's wood and ask questions as to when the wood was bucked up and split.

Not a bad idea, I can ask at the stove shops. I'm sure they'll be able to point me in the right direction.

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

Hearthstone and Harman were the only two I saw that had soap stone models.

-Emt1581

Harman? Maybe Woodstock. There are also some nice soapstone clad boxes out there including the Bakers Oven Woodstove whose ad is popping up above this thread. Morso & Rais also come to mind.

 

[BrotherBart]

Hearthstone and Harman were the only two I saw that had soap stone models.

-Emt1581

I will take a large bite out of any Harman soapstone stove you might point out to me.

Harman does steel stoves. Like God intended stoves to be. With a few cast iron offerings thrown in for the elite.

 

[begreen]

This is promising . . . a seller that seems to know his stuff. What product lines does he carry?

Also . . . other folks and myself keep trying to help you out here, but you don't seem to be hearing what we're saying . . . you need to think outside of the box . . . you may not be restricted to just one or two places in the home . . . for example you may be able to put a woodstove somewhere else in the house you haven't even considered . . . granted it may cost you the price of a Class A chimney . . . but if doing so means you're safe and warm and it looks good . . . then the price may be worth it.

http://stovesnstuff.com/woodstoves.html


Unless a "Class A Chimney" is less than $1000 there's no way we can afford to do such a thing so again, we have to make do with what we have.

-Emt1581

Maybe we should back up and determine just what the budget is here for the basics - insert, liner, wood. Otherwise this is just summer speculation. Guestimate $400 for 2 cords of wood, $1500 for the liner, $2200 for the insert. When figuring the budget, can you wait until you get the tax credit to realize the full savings or is that too far out? The credit is on the whole installation.

 

[emt1581]

Hearthstone and Harman were the only two I saw that had soap stone models.

-Emt1581

Harman? Maybe Woodstock. There are also some nice soapstone clad boxes out there including the Bakers Oven Woodstove whose ad is popping up above this thread. Morso & Rais also come to mind.

Now I can't find them on the Harman website. I guess I've been mistaken. Shot in the dark though....I'm betting the soapstone models are among the most expensive....no?

-Emt1581

 

[emt1581]

This is promising . . . a seller that seems to know his stuff. What product lines does he carry?

Also . . . other folks and myself keep trying to help you out here, but you don't seem to be hearing what we're saying . . . you need to think outside of the box . . . you may not be restricted to just one or two places in the home . . . for example you may be able to put a woodstove somewhere else in the house you haven't even considered . . . granted it may cost you the price of a Class A chimney . . . but if doing so means you're safe and warm and it looks good . . . then the price may be worth it.

http://stovesnstuff.com/woodstoves.html


Unless a "Class A Chimney" is less than $1000 there's no way we can afford to do such a thing so again, we have to make do with what we have.

-Emt1581

Maybe we should back up and determine just what the budget is here for the basics - insert, liner, wood. Otherwise this is just summer speculation. Guestimate $400 for 2 cords of wood, $1500 for the liner, $2200 for the insert. When figuring the budget, can you wait until you get the tax credit to realize the full savings or is that too far out? The credit is on the whole installation.

What I've figured on pre-tax-credit is around $3500 for the stove and installation.

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

Hearthstone and Harman were the only two I saw that had soap stone models.

-Emt1581

Harman? Maybe Woodstock. There are also some nice soapstone clad boxes out there including the Bakers Oven Woodstove whose ad is popping up above this thread. Morso & Rais also come to mind.

Now I can't find them on the Harman website. I guess I've been mistaken. Shot in the dark though....I'm betting the soapstone models are among the most expensive....no?

-Emt1581

Yes, it does command a premium, especially compared to a steel stove or insert.

 

[begreen]

This is promising . . . a seller that seems to know his stuff. What product lines does he carry?

Also . . . other folks and myself keep trying to help you out here, but you don't seem to be hearing what we're saying . . . you need to think outside of the box . . . you may not be restricted to just one or two places in the home . . . for example you may be able to put a woodstove somewhere else in the house you haven't even considered . . . granted it may cost you the price of a Class A chimney . . . but if doing so means you're safe and warm and it looks good . . . then the price may be worth it.

http://stovesnstuff.com/woodstoves.html


Unless a "Class A Chimney" is less than $1000 there's no way we can afford to do such a thing so again, we have to make do with what we have.

-Emt1581

Maybe we should back up and determine just what the budget is here for the basics - insert, liner, wood. Otherwise this is just summer speculation. Guestimate $400 for 2 cords of wood, $1500 for the liner, $2200 for the insert. When figuring the budget, can you wait until you get the tax credit to realize the full savings or is that too far out? The credit is on the whole installation.

What I've figured on pre-tax-credit is around $3500 for the stove and installation.

-Emt1581

OK, you aren't far off. That is close.

 

[emt1581]

This is promising . . . a seller that seems to know his stuff. What product lines does he carry?

Also . . . other folks and myself keep trying to help you out here, but you don't seem to be hearing what we're saying . . . you need to think outside of the box . . . you may not be restricted to just one or two places in the home . . . for example you may be able to put a woodstove somewhere else in the house you haven't even considered . . . granted it may cost you the price of a Class A chimney . . . but if doing so means you're safe and warm and it looks good . . . then the price may be worth it.

http://stovesnstuff.com/woodstoves.html


Unless a "Class A Chimney" is less than $1000 there's no way we can afford to do such a thing so again, we have to make do with what we have.

-Emt1581

Maybe we should back up and determine just what the budget is here for the basics - insert, liner, wood. Otherwise this is just summer speculation. Guestimate $400 for 2 cords of wood, $1500 for the liner, $2200 for the insert. When figuring the budget, can you wait until you get the tax credit to realize the full savings or is that too far out? The credit is on the whole installation.

What I've figured on pre-tax-credit is around $3500 for the stove and installation.

-Emt1581

OK, you aren't far off. That is close.

Just in the brief homework I've done the price range seems to be $1500-$3000 for stoves. So I figured $3500 would be a good mid-point....plus I called the shop and asked the guy there....

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

Harman does steel stoves. Like God intended stoves to be. With a few cast iron offerings thrown in for the elite.

That must be because St. Peter's front gate is made out of cast iron.

 

[fossil]

Harman does steel stoves. Like God intended stoves to be. With a few cast iron offerings thrown in for the elite.

That must be because St. Peter's front gate is made out of cast iron.

Oh no...that old one has long since been replaced by one made entirely of Unobtainium. %-P

 

[Todd]

Harman does steel stoves. Like God intended stoves to be. With a few cast iron offerings thrown in for the elite.

That must be because St. Peter's front gate is made out of cast iron.

Oh no...that old one has long since been replaced by one made entirely of Unobtainium. %-P

And soapstone pillars.

 

[fossil]

Harman does steel stoves. Like God intended stoves to be. With a few cast iron offerings thrown in for the elite.

That must be because St. Peter's front gate is made out of cast iron.

Oh no...that old one has long since been replaced by one made entirely of Unobtainium. %-P

And soapstone pillars.

Yes, quite right...Unobtainium and Unaffordium. I understand they're lovely. Don't expect I'll ever see them. :lol:

 

[btuser]

I like the steel stoves for the welded firebox. It would be nice to dress up the front with some cast iron or stone, but that's what my hearth/mantle is there to do. I like a lot of glass (which I know isn't great for combustion) so it feels like a fire. I always hear how soapstone and cast iron have a more even heat, but when I look at the specific heat of steel vs CI vs stone there really isn't much of a storage capacity compared to keeping the BTUs in the wood and controlling the fire through a nice tight firebox. If its about the looks then I agree, but I think the functional benefits were more of a factor before EPA rated stoves.

 

[emt1581]

One thing I didn't think of until now is that a buddy of mine has a wood AND coal stove. No one really suggested them here so I'm guessing maybe there's a reason for avoiding them. He said with coal he can heat his whole home for $3 a day. Sounded like a cool idea to me.

-Emt1581

 

[begreen]

Most of us are not in coal regions. Drop in at www.nepacrossroads.com if coal is in your future.

 

[emt1581]

Most of us are not in coal regions. Drop in at www.nepacrossroads.com if coal is in your future.

Ahh ok, that makes sense. I'm in PA...not sure if that's considered coal country by most. Usually the mid south east is where I consider to be coal country. If you listen to Billy Joel's song Allentown he says "they've taken all the coal from the ground" and I'm guessing that has to be true because our steel factory is now a casino...

-Emt1581

 

[Dix]

My home was heated with coal for many years. My Mom put the stoves in when she thought oil at $.12 a gallon was outrageous :gulp:

My question is, when it comes to wood inserts, do modern models throw enough heat to make it up two flights of stairs, without putting vents/registers in? If I can put up a baby gate and just leave the basement door open that’d be nice to heat the home. All we’d have to do is pick out a stove or an insert and have someone install it and a liner.
Growing up we had an Osburn and that thing made the house toasty. But then again it was in the family room on the main level.

You just answered your question

 

[ddddddden]

You can see some soapstone prices @ www.woodstove.com and www.chimneysweeponline.com

 

[gyrfalcon]

You can see some soapstone prices @ www.chimneysweeponline.com

You want to heat a large house with wood only and also keep an esthetically apparently very fussy wife happy, you're going to have to spend bucks.