Battery Backup for Pellet?

[jayheel]

Looking at the Accentra by Harman and claims it can be hooked up to battery backup for power outages. However it is pricey and we don't live in a high power outage area (1 time in last 5 years for a couple of hours) Wondering if anyone out there has some "Creative" alternatives? possiblities that i've come up with - UPS from computer, inverter from car, using batter for sump pump backup?



thanks

 

[begreen]

If you are only looking for short term than I'd go with a UPS. It will protect the expensive control board as well as supply backup power.

 

[Rhone]

UPS not going to work. Wattage-wise, the pellet stove pulls around 650 watts with the ignitor running - otherwise, around 255 watts continous. That amount of power will have a deep cycle marine battery, using an inverter, dead within a half hour, and within minutes if it has to use the ignitor.

The formula is Amps = Watts/Volts. A 400 watt inverter for your car will draw 33.3 amps @ 12 volts IF it converted perfectly. That means, you need a lot more than a cigarette lighter inverter, those are on a 15 amp fuse. This inverter would need to be directly hooked to your car battery. I didn't see any inverter above 400 watts continous, the most I've seen is http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=pylpinv3&store;=&catid=5752 which is 800 watts high surge, and 400 watts continous. That's in a perfectly controlled lab, don't expect it to meet that in real life conditions but at least it's closer to your mark. It's the only thing that may have a chance of working I feel, besides a generator. Use an extension cord rated to handle 650 watts or 6 amps.

 

[MrWinkey]

UPS from a computer will work if you buy a large one.

I bought one from a local computer surplus store and it works fine. I leave it plugged into the stove 24/7. I do get occasional outages of a few hours sometimes so it's nice.

The basic thing is dont use the auto ignite while it's on battery.....if you hear the UPS start beeping flip the stove to "manual" mode so the stove does not shut down and then try to re-light later.

From what I've seen of Harman's backup it's just an inverter w/ a battery on it.

I bought a APC 2200 at a used computer store for 40 bucks. Worked good but now I need new batteries for it as it's a few years old.

 

[Rhone]

Maybe I'm not aware how big other uses UPS systems are. A 1500VA model from UPC which is one of their biggest and costs around $250 can supply power for about 5 minutes to a pellet stove if the ignitor is on, or about 30 minutes if not. You can see their run chart at http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm?upsfamily=23 and if you're cruising at normal 250 watts not any are over 30 minutes. The 2200VA is around $800 but has enough to last for 2 hours or so, or around 52 minutes with ignitor. Wish I'd lucked on one for $40. http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm?upsfamily=23 Anyway, I think you're best with an inverter & extension cord.

 

[Highbeam]

You can buy inverters into the thousands of watts. You need to look at RV places and alternative energy places where folks use solar power to charge batteries and then run all sorts of appliances. High wuality inverters such as those made for computer applications are expensive but there are plenty of cheaper ones with lower quality AC output.

If you only lose power for a couple of hours then why bother?

Myself, I would rather have a generator on hand since you need to make coffee and cool the fridge and run the TV too.

 

[jtp10181]

Not sure what size pellet unit you are looking at, or how much area you are heating. The Quadrafire Mt Vernon AE has a battery backup option that it basically a new power cord with battery clips on it. The whole unit is on a 12V system so it runs off a marine battery with no inverter. Might be worth checking out.

 

[MrWinkey]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/9474/

Last post in there is the power measured on a P61A....I have a P68...close nuff well say.

Kenny
Back to Iceman and your question.

I do not have your model, but I did take some power measurements last winter on my P61A.

When starting up (ignitor is on and the auger is running), the draw was 372W.

When the ignitor stops, and the auger is running and the distribution fan is on lo, the power draw is 128W.

With the auger is running and the distribution fan is on med, the power draw is 136W.

With the auger is running and the distribution fan is on hi, the power draw is 152W.

Without the auger running and the distribution fan is on lo, the power draw is 93.6W. So the auger is drawing about 35W.

Finally, in shut down mode, the unit was drawing about 46.1W.

152 watts....that dosent look too bad.

Now on this chart....scroll down to the SUA2200 and it says for 100w you get 5 hours 36 min....@ 200 w you get 3 hours 5 min.

My stove usually does not go great guns ahead for long nor does the auger run constantly so my guess is that it will last sometime between 6-3 hours depending on various factors.

BTW you can get good deals on these if you look on ebay. I saw on on there for 250 bucks plus batteries....local I can buy them for 20 bucks per.

Anyways the point is you might need a smallish generator to recharge the batteries but if all your looking for is 3-6 hours then ebay for a UPS.

 

[Jabberwocky]

UPS not going to work. Wattage-wise, the pellet stove pulls around 650 watts with the ignitor running - otherwise, around 255 watts continous. That amount of power will have a deep cycle marine battery, using an inverter, dead within a half hour, and within minutes if it has to use the ignitor. .

Irrelevent for a Quadrafire Mt Vernon AE. When it runs on battery power, start up is strictly manual.

Does anyone out there have any experience running this or a similar stove on battery power? How many hours do you get?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

this company builds inverted power supplies for pellet stoves might take a look at their site for info http://www.stovesentry.com/

 

[MrWinkey]

LOL...

Mike that appears to be where Harman gets the backup unit they sell with the stove!

(broken link removed to http://www.harmanstoves.com/pdf/manuals/HarmanBatteryBackUp.pdf)

BTW I'm a hired geek for a living....but I know my mom would not want to deal with that and wires so a plugin UPS is the better option for her.

(broken link removed)

 

[jayheel]

Thanks for all the input, If I can start the stove manually OR it's already running I don' t need to worry about pulling all that wattage for the ignitor. sounds like the UPS has worked (if the size is right) and if it runs out i can always run chord from the car in the garage. If my power went out more often I would look into a generator, for now though I think I could rig something up to get me by. It just seems that many people have told me "Oh no don't get a pellet what happens in a power outage?" well my gas furnace wouldn't work either and I definately can't hook that up to an inverter and get a couple hours of it!

 

[jayheel]

Also I'll look into the mt. vernon since it runs on dc, any other out there run of dc?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

LOL...

Mike that appears to be where Harman gets the backup unit they sell with the stove!

(broken link removed to http://www.harmanstoves.com/pdf/manuals/HarmanBatteryBackUp.pdf)

BTW I'm a hired geek for a living....but I know my mom would not want to deal with that and wires so a plugin UPS is the better option for her.

actually you are right , i think the 503 a is what they use for auto ignite units.

 

[MarkInPA]

Gee, for that kind of money (I saw $365 - $459 on the Stove Sentry site), why not buy a generator?

Harman recommends that Auto igniter be turned off when on battery. Of course, what do you know, the outage happens when one isn't home to flip the switch to manual...

 

[begreen]

UPS not going to work. Wattage-wise, the pellet stove pulls around 650 watts with the ignitor running - otherwise, around 255 watts continous. That amount of power will have a deep cycle marine battery, using an inverter, dead within a half hour, and within minutes if it has to use the ignitor.

The formula is Amps = Watts/Volts. A 400 watt inverter for your car will draw 33.3 amps @ 12 volts IF it converted perfectly. That means, you need a lot more than a cigarette lighter inverter, those are on a 15 amp fuse. This inverter would need to be directly hooked to your car battery. I didn't see any inverter above 400 watts continous, the most I've seen is http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=pylpinv3&store;=&catid=5752 which is 800 watts high surge, and 400 watts continous. That's in a perfectly controlled lab, don't expect it to meet that in real life conditions but at least it's closer to your mark. It's the only thing that may have a chance of working I feel, besides a generator. Use an extension cord rated to handle 650 watts or 6 amps.

Depends on the stove and the size of the UPS. I was thinking a 1.5kw UPS. They run about $149. Our Quad used 4.1 amps for the ignitor and 1.1 amps running. I think the UPS could handle that for an hour without issue.

FWIW, there are several inverters above 400w continuous.
http://www.dcacpowerinverters.com/customkititems.asp?kc=PW2300-2AWG

 

[wilbilt]

My old stove (1989) has 12V binding posts on the bottom for direct battery connection. Do newer stoves not have this option?

 

[MrWinkey]

My Harman does not. It was an option to buy an inverter to plug it into.

I went the UPS route.

 

[jtp10181]

My old stove (1989) has 12V binding posts on the bottom for direct battery connection. Do newer stoves not have this option?

Most now are using AC motors, Quadrafire just recently decided to switch to 12V DC motors on their new unit.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Harmans run good on battery backup. All you do is turn the ignitor switch to manual and hand light it. Harman sells a invertor but is spendy so we just got a 700w and it works fine with a marine cycle battery lasted 2 1/2 days