Small wood stove for small basement apartment

[bradleydavidgood777]

I have a small one room apartment in my basement that I rent to a close friend. It has a flue/chimney to the roof, and brick wall, all ready for some kind of small wood burning stove.

The room is only about 15' x 25', so not that big at all.

It is currently heated by electric baseboard. Which we would leave on, and add a wood stove for whenever he feels like keeping it going. I would also stoke it during the day if he wants me to, since I work from home.

Benefits to me would be a lower electric bill, and it would warm the upper house a little more.

And another big benefit is that it would be backup heat for the whole house in case of an extended power outage. I currently have NO backup.

The house has a heat pump installed last year. And a pellet stove insert on the top floor that I keep burning all winter, which keeps me from having to turn on the heat pump.

But in the case of power failure, which has happened twice this season, for about 5 hours each time, I can run the pellet stove for about that long on these two big backup battery packs I have, but after that, I have nothing.

So at least the wood stove would keep the pipes from freezing and take a little of the chill off the whole house.

I've looked at small wood stoves, like for camping, and there are some that people have installed in small cabins and like them, but some of the reviews claim that it doesn't burn long enough, others say that people who complain don't know how to use both dampers correctly. Some say they are just not tight enough and cause a CO2 issue.

For those reasons I don't think I would go with something like that.

But I if I go with something that will burn longer, and is bigger, I am concerned that, even when fully damped down, it will be too hot in the space.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the help!

 

[begreen]

The first thing is to have the chimney checked out to see if it is safe and suitable for a wood stove. Often they are not due to cracked tiles or inadequate protection for wood stove flue which is hotter than say a gas or oil fired appliance. The other thing to check at that time is draft, put a flame or smoking punk, cigarette, by the flue opening. Does it suck the smoke up?

There are some small stoves that could work, especially if there is a way for some of the heat to go upstairs. Morso has a few models. There are also the True North TN10, the Heathstone Lincoln, Woodstock Survival Hybrid, etc. These are all modern EPA certified stoves.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Thanks! I am pretty sure the chimney is fine because the previous owner said it was and I trust him, and I would definitely have it checked and cleaned.

I was just looking at the Morso 1410 squirrel. Nice looking stove.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Do you think that would burn all night if damped all the way down and stocked up with chunks?

 

[EbS-P]

Do you think that would burn all night if damped all the way down and stocked up with chunks?

6 hours max.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Yea that's the problem, finding something small enough to not overheat the room, yet large enough to burn through the night. I think I'm finding out that it is not possible.

When you say 6 hours max, does that mean that there are not enough coals left after sleeping 7 hours to just throw some more logs in while getting ready to leave the house for an hour in the morning and get another fire going?

 

[begreen]

6 hours max.

More typically it will be 2-4 hrs., especially for the little 1410. Is there a way for excess heat to be vented upstairs? Is there a stairwell nearby that can be left open?

If you want backup heat that is not power dependent, yet can go longer with temp control, consider a propane or NG space heater. Rinnai makes good quality wall units. Or if a stove on hearth look is preferred there are good units from Jotul, Lopi, Valor, etc. Just make sure they have battery backup for ignition or a standing pilot option.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

More typically it will be 2-4 hrs., especially for the little 1410. Is there a way for excess heat to be vented upstairs? Is there a stairwell nearby that can be left open?

If you want backup heat that is not power dependent, yet can go longer with temp control, consider a propane or NG space heater. Rinnai makes good quality wall units. Or if a stove on hearth look is preferred there are good units from Jotul, Lopi, Valor, etc. Just make sure they have battery backup for ignition or a standing pilot option.

Yes, 2-4 hours, but how long will coals last, enough to start some new logs?

Yes there is a door that can be left open that air can flow upstairs nicely.

I did look at a new Rinnai that I saw working in the upper floor of an Amish horse barn. It is really nice. But requires electric. Haven't seen one that does not.

And I have lots of free wood that needs to be burned so that's a big incentive, not to pay for fuel.

 

[begreen]

After 4 hrs, there may be coals, or not. Definitely not overnight. That will take a larger firebox. If a good portion of the heat can go upstairs, then a bit larger stove could be put in.

There are several propane stoves that don't need electric or have an internal battery backup for flame ignition. Others have a standing pilot. Our friend's Valor freestanding stove has an internal battery backup system. Here is a simple Martin heater that does not require power.

Martin Propane Direct Vent Heater MDV12VP 11000 BTU

Off-Grid Heating | No power required | 11,000 BTU | Heats spaces up to 323 sq.ft | Check our online store for more Martin heaters and other off-grid heating solutions!

www.thecabindepot.com

 

[all night moe]

@begreen what about one of the smaller stoves in BK's line up. Little larger than that Morso but can be burned longer .... "low and slow." Leaving that door to upstairs open would keep the basement apartment from over heating and provide more warmth upstairs.

 

[stoveliker]

The morso gets 0.7 cu ft per 4 hrs. That's 0.175 cu ft of fuel per hour.
The smaller BKs get 2 cu ft per 20 hrs. That's 0.1 cu ft per hr (if (!) the chimney is drafting within specs... Which is important for burning as low as possible).

Assuming the efficiency is the same (and for practical purposes it is), that means you can go lower in heat.output with the BK.

But it takes more space. So if space is at a premium, it may be not ideal.

 

[BillBurns]

My wood burner is on the small size. Its rated for 900 square feet. I know its not a killer new stove ( no money), but it heats my small house unless its like 5 below out. Ive had mine 3 years with no probs.

 

[begreen]

@begreen what about one of the smaller stoves in BK's line up. Little larger than that Morso but can be burned longer .... "low and slow." Leaving that door to upstairs open would keep the basement apartment from over heating and provide more warmth upstairs.

That's why I asked if some of the heat could go upstairs. If a good portion can, then a BK, Kuma, or Woodstock stove could work. Of them I think the Woodstock Fireview has the lower bottom end output.

 

[stoveliker]

I see the Woodstock Fireview is claimed (by Woodstock) to have 10-12 hr burns on an 1.85 cu ft stove.

If true, that'd suggest a higher lowest output than the 20 hr on a 2 cu ft stove of a BK?

(again, assuming same efficiencies, assuming the advertised long burn times are to the same "end point", and the firebox size is measured in the same way (i.e. effective usable size may be different from advertised size)).

On the other hand, it's also important to choose something that you like to look at ... I.e. aesthetics matter for an appliance that you are going to look at for 2 decades or so...

 

[begreen]

I am just comparing EPA testing results on low between the two stoves.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes.

As we know EPA testing is not always representative of real life.
But so is marketing material.

Most mfgs don't give the lowest BTU output rate possible (most only brag about the highest BTU output), so it's (also) informative to give the "volume of wood per hour" rate, assuming the longest burn times provided by the mfgs are trustable (...). Just another perspective.

In any case, EPA number AND mfg derived data (as I gave) are only indications, and actual performance depends a lot on the install (actual draft etc.) and actual fuel (dryness, packing in the stove, wood species etc.).

 

[begreen]

Yes correct, some companies place the emphasis on highest BTU output. That's marketing. Others like SBI (Drolet/Osburn). Woodstock and BK provide both figures. I think all manuals are now required to list the EPA results.

As we know EPA testing is not always representative of real life.

No, but it is a defined metric, similar to EPA gas mileage, that gives one a realistic sense of unit capabilities. It shows what the stove does when tested with a fixed load and draft, to provide consistent baselines across many varying appliances. Can one run the stove hotter? Definitely. One might also run it at lower BTU output.. The results are lab results that costs over $100,000 and credible enough to qualify for a tax credit that helps sell a ton of stoves for companies whose stove qualify. EPA testing results are not comparable to some wildly optimistic marketing claims. If anything, they are understated. The Woodstock Fireview's low btu output is well known. It's several thousand less than the small Blaze King Asford 20. (7,606 BTU/hr vs 11, 342 BTU/hr.) We don't hear much these days, but low-output, shoulder season burning in these stoves was a bragging here in the past.

 

[stoveliker]

Then I wonder how to reconcile this with the duration of the burn advertised by both companies.

If there is any marketing bias, the burn times are exaggerated. But I know for a fact that BKs burn times are not.
If Woodstock's is not either, then I have trouble reconciling the burn times with the lowest heat output EPA data comparison. It just doesn't compute.

 

[begreen]

Burn time is a marketing term. There is no established standard.