Been enjoying & learning from the threads

[NickW]

I gotta tell you guys... I've been really enjoying and learning new things to try in the threads lately.

The biggest lesson learned (beyond the obvious "MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOUR WOOD IS WELL SEASONED) is learn your setup. Nearly every stove and flue is unique. Keep trying different things. There are different methods of starting a successful fire and there are different ways to maintain a fire. Figure out what works best for your setup and situation.

I've currently got a load of beech and sugar maple that is trying to decide if it's going to go nuclear or not, so I'm sitting up babysitting it and reflecting upon all this. I personally prefer to top out at stt of 650 and start to get nervous at 700, which realistically is still pretty safe; but I don't want to head to bed at 700 and have it decide to go up over 800...

The discussions about cold starts with a small load versus full loads, cat versus non-cat, all full loads versus throwing a couple of splits at a time more often during the day, felling trees, etc...; all these things are helping me get better at this.

The biggest struggle I have yet is keeping an overnight burn under control early, yet keeping it going all night long. I have really good draft when she's hot, but as it cools I seem to lose the draft pretty badly. If I choke it down to a good cruising early burn I have more charcoal than coals in the morning, if I leave it a little more open it's hard to keep a full load under control for the first 1-2 hours. Maybe tomorrow I'll try a bottom row N-S with the tunnel of love and everything on top of that E-W... Right now it's all N-S and at 670 stt fully closed. If I leave it overnight I'll have charcoal logs instead of coals. If I open it up to 1/8 open it'll get too hot and lose more up the chimney. Maybe I just need to get started earlier to get past the choke down to prevent the big takeoff so it can get opened up a little to keep going overnight.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and I look forward to hearing any further suggestions for my overnights!

 

[tabner]

What model stove?
Just curious

 

[NickW]

What model stove?
Just curious

Summers Heat 50SNC30.

 

[begreen]

Rake the hot coals forward and then try a reload that is entirely E/W. See if that works better for you.

 

[NickW]

Rake the hot coals forward and then try a reload that is entirely E/W. See if that works better for you.

What about the "tunnel of love"?

 

[begreen]

What about the "tunnel of love"?

That's for cold starting. It shouldn't be necessary with a hot reload.

 

[NickW]

That's for cold starting. It shouldn't be necessary with a hot reload.

Well, there's another new thing learned! I've been doing it every load. No wonder they tend to take off on me!

 

[NickW]

Experiment continues...

E-W load was very controlled but didn't get very high temps. N-S load without the tunnel of love I thought was really good but this morning the glass was badly smoked.

I'll try a N-S load again and keep the air a little more open overnight and a E-W with the air open longer to get more firing. Might try a bottom layer N-S and then E-W on top.

 

[WoodScrounger]

I’m still learning my new insert as well . I can’t speak for your stove but with my PE Summit I try to start my overnights soon enough that I can fully char everything before I close it down too hard. I usually watch it and close up the air until the temps are holding or preferably dropping very slowly before heading to bed. I do have an Auber reading the temp at flue adapter with a high temp alarm set.

 

[NickW]

Well, I never even got to an E-W on top of N-S... Just filling in the tunnel of love on hot restarts all N-S seems to have done the trick. Good controllable heat and a longer burn cycle. The first one when I smoked the glass seems to be from being impatient on getting the air shut down too soon.

 

[Gearhead660]

Ive got a stove similar to yours. I got digital flue thermometer. Makes adjusting air super easy. Load it up, watch the temp and close air little at a time til its cruising.

 

[NickW]

Ive got a stove similar to yours. I got digital flue thermometer. Makes adjusting air super easy. Load it up, watch the temp and close air little at a time til its cruising.

I seem to have been fighting draft. With a hot flue on a breezy night, I would have to go down to 1/8 open on the air to keep it from overfiring; sometimes even down to fully closed to choke it down then back to 1/8 open when it calmed down. I'd wake up to charcoal and few coals. 1/4 open on calm nights and the coals were better. It seems like as it cools off I lose a lot of draft.

Now on a hot restart without the tunnel of love, it takes a little longer to get going; but the burn is longer and the coals are better in the morning - 1/4 open to cruise regardless of wind.

 

[NickW]

I can't argue with this coal bed 8-9 hrs later and 72 degrees in the stove room.

 

[Gearhead660]

I seem to have been fighting draft. With a hot flue on a breezy night, I would have to go down to 1/8 open on the air to keep it from overfiring; sometimes even down to fully closed to choke it down then back to 1/8 open when it calmed down. I'd wake up to charcoal and few coals. 1/4 open on calm nights and the coals were better. It seems like as it cools off I lose a lot of draft.

Now on a hot restart without the tunnel of love, it takes a little longer to get going; but the burn is longer and the coals are better in the morning - 1/4 open to cruise regardless of wind.

I have 25 feet interior chimney. Damper slightly open if not all the way closed. Full load cruises 650-700 SST. Going to check my draft just cuz I'm curious.

 

[Gearhead660]

I can't argue with this coal bed 8-9 hrs later and 72 degrees in the stove room.

Yeah, I got about twice that amount at the 8-9 hr mark. Especially if there is a healthy layer of ash.

 

[NickW]

That's very interesting Gearhead... very similar setup. I have 3.5' vertical double wall, then 3' horizontal going to 20' or 24' (I forget which) of insulated liner in an interior chimney. I feel like that horizontal section really hurts my draft as it cools down. Burning all 16-18% sugar maple, beech, cherry & ash.

Last nights load wasn't quite 100% full. I'm still experimenting and learning and asking questions. Stove was installed January 23rd last year. How do you load? E-W doesn't give good temps for me. N-S with the tunnel on a hot start is barely controllable and seems to burn the load too fast. Choking the air back more controls it better, but I tend to have more charcoal than coals in the morning. I'm trying to extend my effective burn time and have coals instead of charcoal in the morning.

I'm trying to heat 2400' and keep the electric baseboards from kicking in (don't get me started on the electrician who built this place...). I've been able to keep them off so far, but it hasn't been super cold either.

Filling in the tunnel (Begreen's suggestion) seems to keep it from taking off too much, but I've noticed that a big split right in front of the doghouse doesn't allow the air to circulate correctly. It drills a hole in the end of the log and the air doesn't circulate to get the updraft in the back to give good strong secondaries across the top.

I'm a little afraid of going to bed at 700 stt in case it takes off more. Last year I had it seemingly cruising a couple of times at 550-600, went up to shower, came down to check it after and it's at 750-800 and screaming.

 

[BrianVA]

I can't argue with this coal bed 8-9 hrs later and 72 degrees in the stove room.

I'd say you're doing great! Looks good to me.

 

[BrianVA]

I would also like to echo Nick's remarks about learning from the members of this forum. I've learned so much and have had a much better user experience thanks to this great website. Everything from selecting the unit, to installation, to operating it, plus managing and maintaining my firewood... Thanks everyone!

 

[Gearhead660]

That's very interesting Gearhead... very similar setup. I have 3.5' vertical double wall, then 3' horizontal going to 20' or 24' (I forget which) of insulated liner in an interior chimney. I feel like that horizontal section really hurts my draft as it cools down. Burning all 16-18% sugar maple, beech, cherry & ash.

Last nights load wasn't quite 100% full. I'm still experimenting and learning and asking questions. Stove was installed January 23rd last year. How do you load? E-W doesn't give good temps for me. N-S with the tunnel on a hot start is barely controllable and seems to burn the load too fast. Choking the air back more controls it better, but I tend to have more charcoal than coals in the morning. I'm trying to extend my effective burn time and have coals instead of charcoal in the morning.

I'm trying to heat 2400' and keep the electric baseboards from kicking in (don't get me started on the electrician who built this place...). I've been able to keep them off so far, but it hasn't been super cold either.

Filling in the tunnel (Begreen's suggestion) seems to keep it from taking off too much, but I've noticed that a big split right in front of the doghouse doesn't allow the air to circulate correctly. It drills a hole in the end of the log and the air doesn't circulate to get the updraft in the back to give good strong secondaries across the top.

I'm a little afraid of going to bed at 700 stt in case it takes off more. Last year I had it seemingly cruising a couple of times at 550-600, went up to shower, came down to check it after and it's at 750-800 and screaming.

Only part of my set up that is horizontal is where it goes into the chimney to the tee. Then 20 feet of insulated liner.

I rake the coals to the front and then load it up fairly tight N-S. If you are worried about it taking off, i would suggest a flue temp monitor. I have one and its got an alarm.

Heating about the same size house. Long and narrow with stove on one end of house. Low 70s downstairs with upper 60s upstairs in far bed room. I have 2 stairwells and the heat moves quite well without the use of fans. I actually have 3 wood burners in the house so if it gets down to the single digits, I fire up another one. Also nice if I need to clean out one of them, let it burn out and fire up another one. Got boiler set to 66 degrees but rarely if ever comes on. Think I used half a tank of propane last year between trips and the DHW.

 

[Caw]

I initially had similar issues with overnight burns. Closing it all the way to control it early would lead to waking up to a filthy door. Leave it open a bit and it would get too hot/waste fuel. The solution was patience and starting sooner.

Rather than waiting until I want to go to bed I start about an hour beforehand. Rake the coals forward, load E/W. Small splits on the bottom, big giant splits in the middle, and tetris whatever I can in on top and in-between. Ive found putting a smaller split or two in the back/on bottom helps give me a more complete overnight burn. The fire can off gas and work through the big stuff while it's hot and the smaller stuff after its started to cool. Starting early also allows me to keep it closed to prevent a nuclear start up phase and then open it to about 10% to cruise overnight. My particular stove works MUCH better at 10% open for a long burn, even suggests it in the manual. I can get 8-10 hours out of my tiny 1.85 cu ft box and have coals to reload in the am and a clean door.

I'm heating 1600 sq ft with my Osburn 1600 on the first floor. 24' straight shot up an leeward external chimney so I get good draft. I havent had to kick on the electric heat once this year.

Start a little earlier, keep it closed/monitored until settled, slightly open before bed. You'll be a happy camper!

 

[NickW]

Last night I tried Caw's technique. E-W, small on the bottom, big middle, tetris top. Took a loooooong time to get going and up to temperature - like 1 1/2 hours. Good coals this morning, but that back bottom piece wasn't even hardly scorched and the glass was smoked. Might try it again with the air open a little more. E-W may not be the best way for the 50SNC30's air flow pattern, but I'm going to give it another try.

Might try the bottom N-S and then E-W on top of it yet.

Fully packed N-S with no tunnel still seems best, but it sometimes still tries to take off on me. Really fighting the balance between controlling it and not having charcoal instead of coals. Maybe I need to not pack tight against the back wall...

Currently have a half load of beech and maple E-W going, not tight to the back. We'll see in a few hours how it is...

 

[Caw]

Every stove and chimney are different but there's definitely something wrong if there is unburned wood left after an overnight burn. The one constant we can all strive for is good fuel though.

How hot was the stove when you reloaded? Did the piece on the coals take off right away? Right away being in like 60 seconds or less. If not, the wood isn't dry enough or the stove isn't hot enough. Did you leave the door open while trying to ignite/get to temp? I tend to reload at around 250-300 with good wood. If the wood is sub par it's a lot easier to reload at 300-350 with more coals and a hotter box. Keeping the door open will feed oxygen to the fire and get you up to temp a lot faster. It's perfectly safe to do so just don't leave it unattended.

My good maple/ash (16%-18%) will take off within 15-30 seconds usually. It's actually a little annoying as im still trying to tetris in more wood and it's already wanting to go! When im using 20-22% oak that I have I need a hotter stove, more coals, and usually a minute or two to get it going.

For me, from a fresh reload I'm usually up to temp within 30 minutes and shut down/cruising nicely about 60 mins into it. It usually takes 30 mins or so for it to settle down from the bowels of hell off gassing stage. If you shut it down too quickly it can put itself out even though its super hot.

 

[NickW]

Last year I was fighting the wood moisture as I switched from the smoke dragon to the EPA stove in January. This year everything is sub 20% on a fresh warm split. Beech, sugar maple, ash and cherry.

Yesterday afternoon I cleaned out the ash and had a mid size fire to heat the system up and make some coals. Pulled them all to the front, so there was virtually nothing underneath. Sst about 250. Small pieces on the bottom, big in the middle with a medium piece right on the coal pile in front and then tetris the top. Piece on the coals took off right away...like you said, a challenge playing tetris with that front piece going. That front piece was half gone and almost cut in half from the doghouse air supply before anything else was hardly burning.

Sometimes if I go from the door full open and things cranking up then down to 1" open it'll blow out, especially on the E-W.

 

[BrianVA]

As an experiment on your E/W reload, you could try this:
Instead of raking the coals to the front evenly spread across, rake them such that they are concentrated all at the front right (the side the door opens from). This will light the ends of the logs, rather than trying to light the front logs all the way across. Its like having an E/W load with a N/S style burn. It should ignite faster, and could possibly give you a longer and more controlled burn than an N/S loading.

Like I said, just as an experiment, since it seems like you don't mind trying different configurations. I've been doing this on my insert, and it works really well. But my insert is very different than your free standing unit. For one thing, my insert only allows for an E/W load.

You had also mentioned cross stacking as an experiment. I think that is going to take off faster and hotter than any other loading options, but there's one sure way to find out! Fun stuff.

 

[NickW]

Yeah, I'm slowly learning and getting better; but still trying new things.

My theory on the N-S bottom then E-W on top is that the air from the doghouse will flow through the N-S splits giving the air flow needed but not flow through the E-W slowing the burn down...

During the day I load 3 medium sized splits N-S in the middle on a good bed of coals spread over the whole bottom, let it take off and then 2-3 ash shovels full of dry bark & wood chips on each side (not sawdust). Splits give the flame, chips give the smoke, lots of secondaries from little wood and it'll last several hours.