Bent swing-out shelves on a T6?

[IdahoTaterHead]

I just had a brand new, crated/wrapped/packed, T6 installed in our house (under construction). After the installers left, we saw what looks like dusty foot prints on the shelves and the shelves had to be 'lifted' hard to get them to swing out ... and then it was obvious that both were bent downward. The left one by 1/2", the right one by 1/4". I don't think just leaning on the shelves could bend them like that, but standing on them certainly could. I took photos and complained (called and emailed) to the installer/stove company and they claim that they don't see foot prints. I have a feeling that this will turn into a lawsuit ... we're asking for a brand new undamaged stove to replace the damaged one. Has anyone else here had bent swing-out shelves on any of the T-series Pacific Energy stoves? Pictures attached.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I recommend stepping back from lawsuit talk. You won’t get any help from them if you jump to that.

It’s cast iron. It wouldn’t support the weight of somebody standing on it. It’d be cracked. So, don’t worry that somebody stood on them.

Set both trivots on the center support . Does everything even out?

 

[IdahoTaterHead]

I get the lawsuit issues. Cast iron or not, those trivets/shelves can (now) be pressed down to the top of the stove since they're already bent in that direction and no iron cracks. There may or may not be a crack in the iron at the hinge/pivot point but you can't see the back side where the crack would likely be. I believe it's the hinge/pivot point that's damaged and now allows the shelves to sag down so far.

Yes, things are level when on the center support, but that doesn't matter ... you have to use force to get them onto the support. And look at the pictures ... are you saying that I should accept the stove as-is? Would you put this stove on your show room floor? In any case, the damage exists and it looks like it came from someone who stood on top of the stove - and that's not acceptable. I expect to be provided what I bought ... a new stove that works perfectly, not a repaired or refurbished one which is what I'd have if they repair the (what looks like) abused one.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'd try to reseat the trivots. I think it's an adjustment issue.

 

[IdahoTaterHead]

I'd try to reseat the trivots. I think it's an adjustment issue.

How? Are there sleeves or bushings in the hinges/pivot points?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Its been years since I I pulled them, but I believe they can be pulled straight up. There was a sleeve around the pin that stopped metal to metal contact. I'd verify it for you if I was with my stove. @begreen, can you verify? Lift carefully from around the pin. You don't want the trivot to act like a lever and snap the pin.

 

[begreen]

I've never pulled my lids but if it is that simple, have them come out and replace the pivot pin(s).

Edit: I just tried lifting it up and it didn't want to come out, but it's been in there for 14 yrs. and they may have changed the design. Ours is the original T6.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I removed mine to help get my stove up the stairs. Lighter weight... anything I could remove was pulled.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I wish the exploded parts showed it clearer. You can see where the pin enters the back piece, but no more detail.

 

[begreen]

I seem to remember a change talked about and found this old thread on the topic. There is an adjuster to level out the trivet. This may be all IdahoTaterHead's trivet needs.

Alderlea owners: Do your trivet's line up well?

I just got my PE Alderlea T5 installed today. It still hasn't seen any fire or wood yet. My question is whether or not both of your trivets swing smoothly into place? My right trivet swings just fine. Opens to a certain point and closes nicely, stopping when it hits the metal center divider...

www.hearth.com

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Mine has those adjustment screws shown. I've never played with them though.

 

[IdahoTaterHead]

In looking closely at the left shelf, I can also see that it is not flat. It's concave on the bottom side and that adds to how low the forward edge of the shelf is. I can see adjustment 'bolts' under the shelves about 2" from the pin hinges but they appear to be adjusted almost all the way up already and the shelves are still waay too low at the front. I cannot inspect for damage without removing the shelves and I can't touch it ... the company that sold and installed the stove has to do that, else I get blamed for something.

Another question - In spite of requesting it, they did NOT install the optional blower. In looking at the blower installation instructions, it appears that they are going to have to take the stove back off the hearth in order to have adequate access to the back of the stove for installing the blower ... reaching the wiring and screws for installation does not look possible otherwise. Have any of you installed the blower kit and can verify that the stove must come out in order to put the kit on?

 

[stoveliker]

Any concave characteristic of the shelves is either designed or production error, as cast iron does not bend.

Production error is very unlikely too as the shape in which they cast will be the same as for others....

 

[IdahoTaterHead]

Any concave characteristic of the shelves is either designed or production error, as cast iron does not bend.

Production error is very unlikely too as the shape in which they cast will be the same as for others....

Not sure I can quite agree with that. The right-hand shelf is perfectly flat and might be able to get away with just an adjustment. I'm sure that factories have many molds and some aren't as perfect as others. The left-hand shelf is clearly concave on the bottom and this is (also clearly) adding to the issue. The left-hand shelf should be as flat as the right-hand shelf ... it appears to have been cast with the curve in it. I'm not saying the cast iron is bent (you can't bend cast iron). It's possible, maybe even likely, that the pin-hinge(s) is damaged, however, since it appears to have what looks like a plastic bushing in it and it could've been dented/damaged by someone standing on the stove (as appears from what looks like footprints on the shelves). There could be a crack or piece missing on the cast part of the hinge on the backside where you can't see too, but I doubt that. I suspect, instead, that the bushing might be damage-able and was damaged. I'm going to wait for the store manager to come and inspect and let him discover the issue(s)...

 

[stoveliker]

I understand. But my point was that then there would be many shelves out there that are curved. The (likely sand) mold is new for each casting but the shape used to make the mold will be the same for all.

I'd be surprised if there is a polymer bushing, given the temperatures over 300 F this will likely see?

 

[begreen]

They definitely should have put the blower on. I put the blower on our T6's corner install but allowed adequate clearance to do this.

What is the stove's corner clearance in this installation?

 

[IdahoTaterHead]

@stoveliker I agree ... unless mine was an escapee on a new mold (or the mold for the mold)?

@begreen They first installed the stove almost against the brick since between the brick's thickness and air gap behind,
it met the specs for the corner distance to the nearest combustible surface. Then, because I'd noticed the missing blower, they pulled the stove out about 2". Now it looks like there's enough room for the blower, but installing it would be a bear. I also think this is when they stood on the stove ... one guy up top and adjusting the offset for the new stove position, and one guy down below holding onto the pipe while standing on the stove. You can see the tennis shoe tread pattern pretty clearly on the left (worse) shelf, and to a slightly lesser degree on the right (smudged).

They also forgot to put the wind guard / ring on with the rain cap (we get high wind here) and failed to install the 2 chimney supports. Wanna bet they skipped caulking the storm collar too?

 

[begreen]

Bummer. It would be good to get some roof shots for documentation. Was it paid for with a credit card? It would be good to have them to to bat for this.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Check the install in the attic. Pipe clearance to the sheathing, insulation shield, etc.

 

[IdahoTaterHead]

Bummer. It would be good to get some roof shots for

Check the install in the attic. Pipe clearance to the sheathing, insulation shield, etc.

documentation. Was it paid for with a credit card? It would be good to have them to to bat for this.

I have a picture of the chimney that shows that it's missing supports and the wind shield ... but I have balance problems (Parkinson's) and can't get on the roof to check the installation myself. I will ask the store manager to verify for me when he gets here (date is TBD).

In my last email, in which I listed my expectations, I included an independent inspection of the chimney installation to ensure all clearances, installation details etc to make sure there are no violations that could lead to heat damage, fire, water intrusion, or water damage...

The installation has not been paid for yet and they neglected to ask for a downpayment (per their usual practice). The stove was paid for ahead of time, but I need to check to see if it was on a credit card or not ... likely it was since I use my Cabela's card as much as I can to get more cabela bucks ....

 

[Split]

Odd that the dealer won't just swap it out. I know mine would in a heartbeat. Careful who you do business with. Best of luck.

 

[IdahoTaterHead]

Well ... Yesterday, the manager of the store, himself, came out and fixed everything. He even brought the inspector who inspected the installation on the spot. As a result of my original complaint call, he took pix of his installers' shoe soles when they got back to the shop so he could match them to the prints on the stove ... who did it? Neither matched ... the shoe print could only have come from the manufacturer. They also disassembled the cast iron parts on top of the stove and we all inspected and agreed ... no damage. After re-asssembly and adjustment, all seemed fine. They also performed the missing tasks that the original guys failed to do (swap in clay bricks and toss the pumic, install blower kit, straighten chimney, install wind shield on rain cap, add supports to chimney (outside), etc). Finally, the inspector examined the chimney support, attic work, roof jack etc to make sure all was OK and installed correctly. ...I'll go ahead and pay them now, and am glad that they supported me on this. Can't say a whole lot about the first 2 guys that showed up, though. Because of these first 2 guys, I can't recommend this dealer, but the level of support they provided in the end is worthy ... a mixed bag with a good ending.

 

[stoveliker]

Glad that the install is safe, and the stove now looks proper!
Well done by the dealer (who, I hope, makes this a teaching moment for the two initial installers...)

 

[begreen]

They also performed the missing tasks that the original guys failed to do (swap in clay bricks and toss the pumic,

WTH? That can be a potential warranty and EPA violation. Why swap out the new pumice bricks for cheaper ones? At $6-10 a pop, you can be sure they won't be tossing them.

From the manual:
WARNING: ONLY USE MATERIALS SUPPLIED BY MANUFACTURER WHEN DOING MAINTENANCE OR REPLACEMENTS.

 

[TomMcDonald]

WTH? That can be a potential warranty and EPA violation. Why swap out the new pumice bricks for cheaper ones? At $6-10 a pop, you can be sure they won't be tossing them.

From the manual:
WARNING: ONLY USE MATERIALS SUPPLIED BY MANUFACTURER WHEN DOING MAINTENANCE OR REPLACEMENTS.

I thought that could also possibly affect the clearances at which the appliance was tested.