Best Size Bar for MS440 Magnum

[Chuck the Canuck]

Hi. So I've been running my 440 with a 16" bar from the time I purchased it new, about 3 years or so. I run a firewood bundle business ($5.00 bundles only), and I use it constantly to process about 36 to 42 cord per year. I don't cut down trees or anything like that; I get my wood delivered in 6 cord loads of semi tree length? (16' to 20') and usually have 12 - 15 cord settin in the yard up at the shop where I do all my processing.

So as far as the chainsaw in concerned, all I do is use it to chunk up 16" blocks; I generally cut up about 1.5 cord and then start splitting and stacking. But lately (as in the last year) I've been struggling with a heck of a lot of lower back pain, particularly when using the chainsaw. I try to kneel down when cutting, but some times with smaller pieces it just seems to be a lot quicker and easier to step on the wood to hold it in place and cut it, but I have to bend over some to do this, and boyz oh boyz does the old back ever start screamin after a bit of cutting like this..... So now I'm thinking that I should just get a bigger bar so I don't have to lean over, or at least not as much, to cut when standing up. I was thinking a 24" or even a 28" bar? What think ye about such an idea?

Thanks in advance.

 

[woodhog73]

I've got a 70cc Jonsered 2166/2172 ( husky 372xp) which is same power and class of saw as your 440. Roughly 5.5 ish hp.

I have run a 28 on it with regular chisel 3/8 chain on it and I notice it slows down when buried in hard wood. I'm picky and I like fast cutting saws. A 70cc saw with regular chisel chain on 28 inch bar buried fully in hard wood is not fast. It gets the job done but not like a bigger saw. Plenty of folks will tell you a 70cc saw will pull a 28 regular chain like knife in butter. I call BS if you need a 28 inch bar in hardwood buried to the tip all the time all day long get a bigger saw. If just on occasion I suppose that's a different story. Just my opinion.

If your running a bigger bar to avoid bending over more that's controversial. You may be bending over less but your working harder in other areas. First off if your bucking rounds that are 15 inches in diameter for example with a 28 inch bar, your 440 will be slower. It will be noticeable coming from a 16 inch bar on the 440. Secondly the thing is that long of a bar dealing with small wood is cumbersome. Your always watching the tip of the bar because it's so much longer than what your cutting. And you just taxed the saws output with that heavier longer chain, significantly slowing chain speed down to cut small wood with an over sized bar.

That said a 70 cc saw like yours does pull a skip chain on a 28 pretty well so you can deal with bigger wood when needed but obviously it's slower cutting with a skip sequence chain. But prevents bogging. Hopefully.

Honestly a 24-25 is just fine on your 440. So is a 20. And with a 16 inch that's one hell of a firewood saw !

 

[7acres]

Longer bar and chain will add weight too.

 

[claydogg84]

24". You're wasting the 440s potential with a 16" on it. You can get a much smaller, lighter saw that can pull a 16" just as effectively.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

I've got a 70cc Jonsered 2166/2172 ( husky 372xp) which is same power and class of saw as your 440. Roughly 5.5 ish hp.

I have run a 28 on it with regular chisel 3/8 chain on it and I notice it slows down when buried in hard wood. I'm picky and I like fast cutting saws. A 70cc saw with regular chisel chain on 28 inch bar buried fully in hard wood is not fast. It gets the job done but not like a bigger saw. Plenty of folks will tell you a 70cc saw will pull a 28 regular chain like knife in butter. I call BS if you need a 28 inch bar in hardwood buried to the tip all the time all day long get a bigger saw. If just on occasion I suppose that's a different story. Just my opinion.

If your running a bigger bar to avoid bending over more that's controversial. You may be bending over less but your working harder in other areas. First off if your bucking rounds that are 15 inches in diameter for example with a 28 inch bar, your 440 will be slower. It will be noticeable coming from a 16 inch bar on the 440. Secondly the thing is that long of a bar dealing with small wood is cumbersome. Your always watching the tip of the bar because it's so much longer than what your cutting. And you just taxed the saws output with that heavier longer chain, significantly slowing chain speed down to cut small wood with an over sized bar.

That said a 70 cc saw like yours does pull a skip chain on a 28 pretty well so you can deal with bigger wood when needed but obviously it's slower cutting with a skip sequence chain. But prevents bogging. Hopefully.

Honestly a 24-25 is just fine on your 440. So is a 20. And with a 16 inch that's one hell of a firewood saw !

Thanks Woodhog/Claydogg et al. That's all good information to chew on. So maybe I should just move up to the 20" or 24", which has the benefit of being a stock item at the dealers, and also gives me a bit more length to work with without going overboard.

 

[woodhog73]

24". You're wasting the 440s potential with a 16" on it. You can get a much smaller, lighter saw that can pull a 16" just as effectively.

I agree sort of but I will say I've also got a ported higher compression Jonsered 2252 very high output 50cc saw and with a 16 inch bar it will not outcut my 70cc saw if I put a 16 inch bar on the 70cc. I do get what your saying though

 

[kevin j]

The root issue is the bending over, right? Can you eliminate it by changing methods?
Skidsteer and grapple first choice, but I assume you don't have that, or you'd be doing it.
Any friendly neighbors you could work with for a couple hard days
Can you make a ramp of some sort and roll logs up onto it, even a foot off the ground would sure help.
Log loads dumped nicely, or all mixed up and randomly?

440 with 16 inch should pull an 8T sprocket, if it will oil enough. My 7900. 20 inch, 8T slings chips fast.

Or like others have said, 50-55 cc range would be a lot lighter on the back.

Any small processors available? A simple one using gas chain saw, drop into the splitter would save a lot of handling, but then it needs a skidder or loader

 

[TreePointer]

24". You're wasting the 440s potential with a 16" on it. You can get a much smaller, lighter saw that can pull a 16" just as effectively.

+1

24" (Stihl 25") is what I like on a 70cc saw.

 

[jetsam]

You need to give your back a few weeks off so it can heal! If you can't stop work, maybe hire a temporary helper to do all the stuff that bothers your back.

I might look into getting a smaller second saw, too.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

The root issue is the bending over, right? Can you eliminate it by changing methods?
Skidsteer and grapple first choice, but I assume you don't have that, or you'd be doing it.
Any friendly neighbors you could work with for a couple hard days
Can you make a ramp of some sort and roll logs up onto it, even a foot off the ground would sure help.
Log loads dumped nicely, or all mixed up and randomly?

440 with 16 inch should pull an 8T sprocket, if it will oil enough. My 7900. 20 inch, 8T slings chips fast.

Or like others have said, 50-55 cc range would be a lot lighter on the back.

Any small processors available? A simple one using gas chain saw, drop into the splitter would save a lot of handling, but then it needs a skidder or loader

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. My supplier is the very best when it come to laying out logs for me with an eye to not getting myself killed. But I don't have any large equipment that would aid in lifting/elevating the wood to make it easier to cut. Maybe I can swing that with next years budget, but we just finished a complete gut/reno on the bathroom, so I won't be doing anything this year except for cutting/stacking/sellin wood for the remainder of this year. But having said that, a fella on the other site told me about the Stihl 25" ES Light bar that sounds just like the ticket to help me out; at the very least it won't be adding any weight to the saw whilst giving me an 8" extension on what I'm using now.... I'm really tempted by the 28" ES Light bar as well, but also afraid that it might not perform as well on the 440 as the 24/25"...... Thanks to all of you who have been replying. I appreciate it.

 

[woodhog73]

Nice stack of logs. I'm not seeing any logs in the picture that I would personally want a 28 inch bar for.

You will probably be happy with the 25 inch bar and it's a great match for your saw.

Lots of wood to process !

 

[Dairyman]

Your 440 will handle a 28" fine. Defiantly get a reduced weight.

 

[Jazzberry]

That stack of logs looks like 026/260 material to me. Your back would love you if you got one.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

I'm going to have a talk with the guy I bought the saw from (a father and son operation that's been going many years), and I'm hoping that I come away from that discussion with a 25" ES Light bar and chain (or the 28" if he thinks the saw will handle it fine). We'll see how that works out for me, and if I'm still hurting after that, it will certainly be time to look at getting a smaller, lighter saw that will still rip into the rounds.... Thanks again for all the feedback.

 

[woodhog73]

Sounds like you have a good plan. The saw handles a 28 inch fine for what your doing but like I said before it will slow it down. A production hand feller would probably want a bigger saw if needing a bar that big all day long, I know when I was felling timber for a paycheck years ago I certainly would. But for your purposes I'm sure it's fine. Opinions vary.

You mentioned smaller lighter saw ?
Google a review called " cutting with Cronkito" ya sounds strange but some guy ( tree service worker ) did an awesome review of a few saws. A Stihl 046 that he apparently bought new 20 years ago. And a ported 50cc saw that was done by a builder very well known on the website AS.

There's some video that shows just how effective a high output small saw can be. Not just in power but how easy it is to handle and live with for hour after hour of cutting.

Apparently the ported 50cc saw is faster with an 18 inch bar and outcuts his 046. I have a ported 50cc saw so I'm not convinced but his review is pretty darn interesting and may make you wonder if you need a big saw. just something I stumbled across online.

Take with a grain of salt.

He claims the 50cc saw is that fast that he doesn't use the 046 ? Or that was my take on it anyways.

So my point is if your back hurts you that much get a really nice 50cc saw ( ported and muffler modded even better) with an 18 inch bar and it will breeze through those logs in the picture. All at a very light weight. A 50cc saw with a 18 inch bar is less tiring than a 70cc saw with a 28 inch bar, etc, etc my opinion. And if you have a 4 plus hp 50cc saw, that's gonna be a ripper, and can handle those logs in your picture without breaking a sweat

Just a thought

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

Sounds like you have a good plan. The saw handles a 28 inch fine for what your doing but like I said before it will slow it down. A production hand feller would probably want a bigger saw if needing a bar that big all day long, I know when I was felling timber for a paycheck years ago I certainly would. But for your purposes I'm sure it's fine. Opinions vary.

So my point is if your back hurts you that much get a really nice 50cc saw ( ported and muffler modded even better) with an 18 inch bar and it will breeze through those logs in the picture. All at a very light weight. A 50cc saw with a 18 inch bar is less tiring than a 70cc saw with a 28 inch bar, etc, etc my opinion. And if you have a 4 plus hp 50cc saw, that's gonna be a ripper, and can handle those logs in your picture without breaking a sweat.

Thanks for the link, I'll be checking out that video, although after a good nights sleep..... As far as the smaller lighter saw, I've been thinking a lot about it today while out in the yard splitting, and I think that no matter what happens with the bar purchase (25" or 28" for sure a light version), I'll be needing to purchase something that's gonna be lighter and more maneuverable, because the facts is that I'm just gonna keep getting older, and the arthritis in me back is gonna keep slowing me down more and more. So I have to say that I agree with you whole-heartedly that the 50cc ripper with all the mods will eventually become my go-to saw for everyday cutting, and that it's all just a matter of time......

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

Google a review called " cutting with Cronkito" ya sounds strange but some guy ( tree service worker ) did an awesome review of a few saws. A Stihl 046 that he apparently bought new 20 years ago. And a ported 50cc saw that was done by a builder very well known on the website AS.

Well that's a pretty awesome site! I believe I'm gonna be spending a little bit of time with Cronkito over the next few days (I've already bookmarked the site).... I love chainsaw websites....

 

[Jags]

A ramp, a winch and some large (read: sturdy) sawbucks and I would be setting those logs up where I don't have to bend. A few hundred quid could make that happen.
At the volume you are working with I would NOT be working at ground level.

 

[Highbeam]

I have a 28" bar, skip chain, on my 64cc dolmar. Done to limit my bending and it works fine for that. No longer. A 28" bar is just long enough for me with my long arms to not easily stick the tip into the dirt without trying. I have cut 42+ inch rounds with it and I thought it did fine. I'm not a pro so a few seconds faster per round on a monster log is not a big deal.

I can't imagine why anybody would put a 16" bar on a 440 and then cut those little logs. The 260 is a much more appropriate tool.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

A ramp, a winch and some large (read: sturdy) sawbucks and I would be setting those logs up where I don't have to bend. A few hundred quid could make that happen.
At the volume you are working with I would NOT be working at ground level.

Yes, that sounds like an idea worth pursuing. I've been thinking about it ever since you posted..... thanks.

 

[TreePointer]

I also cut out a lot of bending after getting one of these: Peavey Mfg 36" Hookeroon (Hume Pickeroon)
I wish had started using one decades ago. A cant hook/peavey also helps.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

I also cut out a lot of bending after getting one of these: Peavey Mfg 36" Hookeroon (Hume Pickeroon)
I wish had started using one decades ago. A cant hook/peavey also helps.

I love my hookeroon! I couldn't live without it either!

 

[Sean McGillicuddy]

Chuck
Noticed that your up in NB!
I'm on my way to my place in Cocagne NB..
Love it up there!

 

[Jags]

Yes, that sounds like an idea worth pursuing. I've been thinking about it ever since you posted..... thanks.

Maybe an old bale elevator as the delivery device to the sawbucks? Just thinking out loud.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

Maybe an old bale elevator as the delivery device to the sawbucks? Just thinking out loud.

Well thank you for thinking out loud! I've been sloshing your idea around in my head trying to figure out how I might go about setting something up... the bale elevator sounds cool; I'll have to google it to get an idea of how big they are and such... I don't really have a whole lot of room up in front of the shop, which is making things difficult to visualize...... thanks again.

Maybe i can upload a couple of pictures of the processing area to give you all an idea of what I have to work with for space...... later this evening after I'm finish work....