Big wild and floppy flames in my Harman P68

[bungalobob]

I get these big monstrous flames sometimes, at least several times a day, probably more since I do not always monitor it. I first noticed it a few eeks ago when I spotted some white smoke coming from my exhaust. Went inside and there was this wild flopping flame lapping against the door glass and against the top of firebox. Very out of control and no uniformity. If I turn down the temp, it goes away and runs great for a while. I have watched it through several cycles with no problem. Needs heat it comes up to a nice uniform flame, not out of control or anything, then settles down nicely till needed again. I keep it clean, complete cleaning inside once a week, daily burnpot scrapings. Cleaned the exhaust pipe after the first ton, direct vent, real easy, was not that dirty. I'm thinking something in the sensors maybe. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'll call the stove shop Monday if I have to. Thanks.

 

[lecomte38]

Try cleaning the ESP probe. It controls the feed/blower functions thru the control board

 

[jtakeman]

Big wild and floppy flames,

Sounds a little kinky?

 

[bungalobob]

I'll try cleaning the ESP tommorrow. Shutting it down for the weekly cleaning, good a time as any to check it out. Now, it's off to the Superbowl party. No horse in the race, but I'll root for the underdogs. Thanks for the advice.

 

[charles u farley]

What's your fed rate dial set to?

 

[bungalobob]

About 4.5. I tried moving it up some and down some, didn't make a difference.

 

[crausch]

I get the same thing every now and then in my "Advance". Yesterday I did a thorough cleaning on my stove, cleaned the ESP, entire stove, and then the venting. I am sitting here now watching the stove burn and the flame looks a little floppy. Its been running all night and everything seems ok. I don't use a OAK (yet), so I wonder if it's starving for combustion air.

 

[bungalobob]

I get the same thing every now and then in my "Advance". Yesterday I did a thorough cleaning on my stove, cleaned the ESP, entire stove, and then the venting. I am sitting here now watching the stove burn and the flame looks a little floppy. Its been running all night and everything seems ok. I don't use a OAK (yet), so I wonder if it's starving for combustion air.

I have the OAK, so not sure if that is it. With the flame getting wild and large, it looks to me like it's getting way too much air, especially with the white smoke involved. Nice to see someone else with a Harman has the same problem, not that I wish problems on anyone. Going to clean today, including the ESP. See if it helps, if not, going to call the dealer and see what they say.

 

[Bxpellet]

Mine does the same, Big, wide Floppy Flame ( Looks like my sons Hair in the morning) goes up to the top of the burn chamber, then sometimes it is a tall Finger like, and very intense. I have the OAK hooked up. I never really paid any mind to it

 

[bungalobob]

Mine does the same, Big, wide Floppy Flame ( Looks like my sons Hair in the morning) goes up to the top of the burn chamber, then sometimes it is a tall Finger like, and very intense. I have the OAK hooked up. I never really paid any mind to it

I never thought much of it either till I saw the white smoke from the exhaust. Got kind of used to seeing a clear exhaust. Probably no big deal, but I cannot think that it is burning very efficient like that. For some reason the flames go out of control, and big unconcentrated flames like that have to be a waste of pellets.

 

[Bxpellet]

Mine does the same, Big, wide Floppy Flame ( Looks like my sons Hair in the morning) goes up to the top of the burn chamber, then sometimes it is a tall Finger like, and very intense. I have the OAK hooked up. I never really paid any mind to it

I never thought much of it either till I saw the white smoke from the exhaust. Got kind of used to seeing a clear exhaust. Probably no big deal, but I cannot think that it is burning very efficient like that. For some reason the flames go out of control, and big unconcentrated flames like that have to be a waste of pellets.

You notice more smoke out of your exhaust too?

 

[bungalobob]

Yeah, white smoke. At first I smelt it when I was outside, then I saw the wisp's of white smoke coming from behind the house. It's not like some factory stack billowing huge clouds or anything, but enough to notice.

 

[Bxpellet]

Last year I did not see any smoke just during start up, This year I notice it, I played around with settings but I still get it, In the beginning it drove me crazy, Now I just deal with it

 

[bungalobob]

Well I just finished cleaning the beast. Got a little carried away and cleaned everything out, what the hey, it was shut down anyway. Did the exhaust piping all the way out even though I just recently did it. Still pulled out a good amount of ash though. Now, as for the ESP, realizing after looking down the piping that I had to breakdown the unit more than I was in the mood for- still nursing a Superbowl hangover- I realized that if I used a special brush that I have for getting lint out of dryer, I could reach it. The probe had a very good amount of ash built up around it. I ran the brush in gently, the bristles are soft, and kept moving it over and around the probe. That probe turned out nice and shiny. Definitely easier than going in through the back way. Stove started up with no problems, now I'll wait to see if the flames are any better. If I do this right, the attached picture is the brush I used. It is about 28 inches long and tapered. Think I got it at a supermarket. Wife won't be happy to see it laying with the rest of the miscellaneous tools that have gathered near the stove, but I can always get her a new one, eventually.

 

[krooser]

I believe your stove is getting plugged with ash... in all those hidden places.

Tap the inside of the firebox with a hammer... if ash falls into the ashpan you have a plugged up stove.

 

[bungalobob]

I believe your stove is getting plugged with ash... in all those hidden places.

Tap the inside of the firebox with a hammer... if ash falls into the ashpan you have a plugged up stove.

I don't know where else the ash could hide. Got all the ledges and shelves, duct-work, behind the bricks, in the combustion motor wheel, in the box with the igniter. I have done the banging trick, always finds more ash. The stove is running different, maybe not better since the last cleaning where I cleaned the ESP for the first time. Still get some pretty wild flames and white smoke. I can't find a way to decrease the combustion air, so I took another route, and cranked up the pellet feed to near max. I figured I match the pellets to the amount of air and see if that works. A little bass ackwards, I know. I'm still getting wild flames, but the white smoke has cut back alot. There is a switch for draft adjustment, but that is for low fire from what I read, there is no control that I can find for when the stove is calling all out for heat.

 

[TomPajak]

I know it sounds silly but did you check the air holes in the burn pot to see if they are plugged?

 

[bungalobob]

I know it sounds silly but did you check the air holes in the burn pot to see if they are plugged?

Yep, got them too. Pick them out when dirty. Those holes are a mystery to me. I don't think they are air holes, because if they were, there would be no ash above them on the burnpot. I think the only purpose of them is for lighting the pellets with the ignitor. My guess, but if I am wrong hopefully someone will chime in. Also, I turned my stove back to stove temp instead of room temp and it is running so much better. Controls the temp more precisely and the flames have not gotten out of control yet, at least not while I have watching anyway. I'll try this for awhile, not as easy as leaving in room temp mode since I have to adjust with outside temps, but if it keeps those flames and white smoke in check, I'll live with it.

 

[charles u farley]

Yep, got them too. Pick them out when dirty. Those holes are a mystery to me. I don't think they are air holes, because if they were, there would be no ash above them on the burnpot. I think the only purpose of them is for lighting the pellets with the ignitor. My guess, but if I am wrong hopefully someone will chime in. Also, I turned my stove back to stove temp instead of room temp and it is running so much better. Controls the temp more precisely and the flames have not gotten out of control yet, at least not while I have watching anyway. I'll try this for awhile, not as easy as leaving in room temp mode since I have to adjust with outside temps, but if it keeps those flames and white smoke in check, I'll live with it.

If it runs fine in stove temp mode then it sounds like you've proved it's a sensor/control board problem.

 

[TomPajak]

I know it sounds silly but did you check the air holes in the burn pot to see if they are plugged?

Yep, got them too. Pick them out when dirty. Those holes are a mystery to me. I don't think they are air holes, because if they were, there would be no ash above them on the burnpot. I think the only purpose of them is for lighting the pellets with the ignitor. My guess, but if I am wrong hopefully someone will chime in. Also, I turned my stove back to stove temp instead of room temp and it is running so much better. Controls the temp more precisely and the flames have not gotten out of control yet, at least not while I have watching anyway. I'll try this for awhile, not as easy as leaving in room temp mode since I have to adjust with outside temps, but if it keeps those flames and white smoke in check, I'll live with it.

here is what I guess those air holes to be...
your combustion fan is PULLING air into the stove from the fresh air intake and PUSHING it out the exhaust...
the air being PULLED into the stove gets diverted between the airwash and burnpot and gets PULLED up through the air wash vents(keeping glass happy and clean) AND the burnpot holes(keeping pellets nice and hot) then down around the ashpan and exiting through the exhaust pipe..
I always thought that air was pushed through the burnpot and air wash vents from underneath but from what I've seen it isn't so..also the igniter thats in the burnpot gets redhot ONLY during igniting sequence and the air being PULLED through the burnpot becomes superhot igniting the pellets above..

if you still see smoke the manual says your feeding too much and your draft rate too low due to a possible gasket seal leak....have you noticed if the door has "foggy"spots around the edge?

I would ask the dealer to come out and replace the board or reprogram it..to recheck your draft settings and maybe possibly replace the esp probe..
btw..the esp probe is easy to remove and clean..just go behind the stove on the right side and take the panel off(loosen the 2 phillip screws) and remove cover..from here you will see the exhaust pipe and on the side of the pipe you will see a thin wire and a screw..thats your esp probe wire and hold down bracket..take it out clean off with some windex put back in and while your there clean out your pellet fine catch..its behind a rectangular plate that has a wingnut on it...it catches the loose sawdust thats in the bags when you dump it

sorry this is was so long to read

 

[crausch]

One other little thing to add to the check list...

The burnpot igniter cover can cause an abnormal burn. It only needs to be finger tight but does need to seal off air flow through the opening. make sure that when you cleaned it last, A.) its not loose or B.) no grit got stuck between the plate and the pot causing an air flow leak.

[EDIT] I doubt this is your problem since it runs fine in "Stove Temp" mode, but I just wanted to mention it is something that should be checked when cleaning the stove.

 

[bungalobob]

Thanks for the suggestions and some explanations. I do get some foggy spots on the glass, but they are near the top of the glass, I believe it gets foggy/ashy there because that is where the air flow goes from the air wash and collects there because that is the spot of first resistance. I checked the gasket with that dollar bill test, tight all around. Your explanation of the holes sounds good to me. As for the smoke, it is white, which would mean too much air. I have moved the feedrate from one end to the other, made no difference with the flames and smoke. The stove just seems to go crazy with the flames now and then, like it can't get a grip on itself, which probably points to a sensor or control board issue. In manual stove temp mode it runs great. Like suggested, I am going to contact dealer and have them check it out. I realize how to get to sensor from back of stove, but when I opened the blower cover and saw it right up the chute, it just looked simpler to run the dryer vent brush around it. Less work, less chance of disturbing anything, cleaned off real nice. I have cleaned out the area where the fines collect, and both times there was not much there at all. I'll post what the dealer/tech finds. Thanks again.

 

[cac4]

maybe its just reading this thread that put the idea in my head, but I noticed last night that mine was looking a little "floppy", too. Its calling for a lot of heat, as its particularly cold, today and last night....
I realized that I hadn't scraped the burn pot in a few days, and the whole stove is due for a thorough cleaning. (easy to get lazy w/ these harmans...).
anyway, thismorning, I was running the furnace, as I've decided to do periodically when the temps are in the single-digits, to keep the basement from freezing, which puts the stove into low-burn mode. So I took advantage of its relatively cool state to give the pot a good scrape. Then, I switched it over from room-temp mode to stove-temp mode, so its not getting all confused by the furnace. When the fire came back up to speed, it looked alot less "floppy". then again, it wasn't a full-height flame, either....but it seemed that the scraping made the fire look a bit more "stiff".