Bengt is an expert on bio energy and talks about how it works in Sweden.
Bio energy in Sweden
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EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Oh to live somewhere where in 1990s stared to tax carbon emissions. Based on what I heard 100 us$ per ton, just the carbon tax on gasoline would be 1$ per gallon. I’d pay it. (Probably would have got getting an EV that seats 7 as soon as I could have afforded one).
Population of 10 million with relatively similar geography I do think they can make changes faster. Bio energy can’t be ignored but we are clear cutting forests in North Carolina for the sole purpose of pellets to be exported. No residual forest products (tops and limbs) but the whole tree.
Carbon taxes are absolutely the answer but I live in a country where we are so tax averse that most schools can not afford a science textbook for every student and rely on 10-15 year old classroom sets.
My take always— Carbon taxes are essential. Distributed heating and cooling are important for an easy transition and efficiency upgrade. And we’ll managed bio resources are important.
Three thing America has not done much of.
Thanks for posting
Evan
Population of 10 million with relatively similar geography I do think they can make changes faster. Bio energy can’t be ignored but we are clear cutting forests in North Carolina for the sole purpose of pellets to be exported. No residual forest products (tops and limbs) but the whole tree.
Carbon taxes are absolutely the answer but I live in a country where we are so tax averse that most schools can not afford a science textbook for every student and rely on 10-15 year old classroom sets.
My take always— Carbon taxes are essential. Distributed heating and cooling are important for an easy transition and efficiency upgrade. And we’ll managed bio resources are important.
Three thing America has not done much of.
Thanks for posting
Evan
carbon taxes are just a way for some to make money from nothing. All it does is drive your cost of living up, as it is just added to the cost of whatever commodites you purchase. We sure do not need anymore of that. To me that is the equal to a tax on breathing. taxation and surcharges have goten way out of hand
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I think you are missing the point of taxes. They have never been punitive. Always levied for the greater good. Yes it will absolutely increase prices. That’s the point. Make products reflect the real world lifecycle cost. We will be paying for the clean tech investment somehow at some time. Take the tax revenue and reinvest in society now. Carbon markets ehhhh. What ever that a free market approach and there will be winners and loosers in the market.
Flat carbon tax on every barrel of oil pumped or imported and ton of coal. Yes it will be and should be passed on to the consumer so they can make informed choices. Give tax credits/rebates to those who really can’t afford it. If I have to hear my neighbor complain about the cost of gas for hisV8 SUV again I’m going to tell him to sign his son up for the bus. It’s free. Wait I should tell him that the next time I see him even if he doesn’t mention gas prices.
The Swedes are proof that we don’t need to be concerned about the cost. They made it work just fine. Volvo (240 DL was my first car) is going all electric by 2030.
Flat carbon tax on every barrel of oil pumped or imported and ton of coal. Yes it will be and should be passed on to the consumer so they can make informed choices. Give tax credits/rebates to those who really can’t afford it. If I have to hear my neighbor complain about the cost of gas for hisV8 SUV again I’m going to tell him to sign his son up for the bus. It’s free. Wait I should tell him that the next time I see him even if he doesn’t mention gas prices.
The Swedes are proof that we don’t need to be concerned about the cost. They made it work just fine. Volvo (240 DL was my first car) is going all electric by 2030.
There's seems to be 2 ways to implement a carbon tax, and I've paid both. First is to take the revenues from the tax and return them in the forms of grants, rebates, or credits for investment in low carbon infrastructure and appliances, to industry and consumers alike. The second way is to return money to taxpayers as a credit in their income tax, also making it revenue neutral.
Personally I like the first better, the purpose of a carbon tax is to reduce carbon emissions, it really doesn't solve anything if the money isn't turned around to use on low carbon energy.
Currently Canada's supreme leader has implemented the second policy. And this method really hasn't done much to decrease CO2 emissions, but has added significant burden to the taxpayer, and has basically turned into a form of wealth redistribution.
Personally I like the first better, the purpose of a carbon tax is to reduce carbon emissions, it really doesn't solve anything if the money isn't turned around to use on low carbon energy.
Currently Canada's supreme leader has implemented the second policy. And this method really hasn't done much to decrease CO2 emissions, but has added significant burden to the taxpayer, and has basically turned into a form of wealth redistribution.
It's great that they are making this a national target. It's great that their economy and standard of living are still good. However, this talk seems to dodge the fact that they are importing vast amounts of wood pellets in spite of having major forest reserves. They are importing from the US and Canada and not accounting for the environmental or carbon impact of the harvesting and transport of the pellets. The impacts in the US are not always the best. I'm not knocking their overall effort but I hope they become more independent for biomass.
I think there's very valid concern around the industrial adoption of biomass energy. It makes sense in small scale to heat homes, and in industrial applications where waste products exist anyway, but the deliberate harvesting of forests for fuel makes little sense outside of some special circumstances such as salvage logging disease or pest killed forests.
We also have to realize that we are in the middle of the 6th great extinction event, and humans are the cause. It really serves no use to reduce carbon emissions if it comes at the cost of destroying what's left of the planets natural areas in the name of "green" bio-energy production.
We also have to realize that we are in the middle of the 6th great extinction event, and humans are the cause. It really serves no use to reduce carbon emissions if it comes at the cost of destroying what's left of the planets natural areas in the name of "green" bio-energy production.
walhondingnashua
Minister of Fire
IMO, it's just another example of how a good idea with good intentions gets industrialized, money becomes the only goal, and a new problem is created. Large scale energy production from solid organic matter is only taking more biological, nonrenewable resources and using them up.
A carbon tax follows a similar model as the high corporate tax rates from the time before trickle-down. Yes, a company could have an extremely high tax rate, but large deductions came in as the business invested in its employees, research and development, improved business practices, etc.
Now they just don't pay taxes on the "good faith" that the money will be used to create jobs. Companies are not going to "go green" unless they are forced to or there is an economical incentive. The purpose of a business is to make money, not do what is best for the country or the planet.
A carbon tax follows a similar model as the high corporate tax rates from the time before trickle-down. Yes, a company could have an extremely high tax rate, but large deductions came in as the business invested in its employees, research and development, improved business practices, etc.
Now they just don't pay taxes on the "good faith" that the money will be used to create jobs. Companies are not going to "go green" unless they are forced to or there is an economical incentive. The purpose of a business is to make money, not do what is best for the country or the planet.
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