BK Ashford Smoke Smell Follow Up

[Calentarse]

Ok, so the single wall pipe is GONE. Finally got my double wall installed. The pipe is made by Olympia. It's their Ventis pipe. Very durable, 24 gauge. Nice stuff. Fits so tight and I couldn't say that for my single wall. Had to be losing draft because of those gaps and the heat loss.

This double wall is HOT though on the outside. I thought it'd be cool to the touch! It's even hotter than my single wall up by where it connects to the ceiling. Am I imagining this?!

I regret to inform that I still have a smoke smell coming from the front of the stove, pouring out from the front of the top lid. I smell nothing around the pipe connector except the smell of the new curing paint (totally different smell, of course) I'm aware this will fade, and then I'll relive it when my Thermalox Parchment arrives and I repaint.

The following pictures will tell all...I just took them all back to back.

Ok webby, BKVP, Highbeam and ANYONE else out there who can help, thoughts? Love my stove but HATE THIS SMELL.

 

[webby3650]

First, split that wood and try again. 10% is pretty unlikely on a fresh split unless you have a kiln.
Not that this is your issue.

 

[begreen]

Double wall pipe does get hot on the outside, just not as hot as single wall. I can usually touch it briefly. Single wall would have burned me in the same circumstance. The surface thermometer is not worth much on double-wall pipe. You need a flue probe thermometer to know the actual temp, though with a 225F surface temp it seems like the flue gases are plenty hot.

I feel for you. There should be zero smoke smell at this point. Something is definitely wrong.

 

[Calentarse]

First, split that wood and try again. 10% is pretty unlikely on a fresh split unless you have a kiln.
Not that this is your issue.

Hey webby, I did split it but that was a piece of heart wood, small. No sapwood on it whatsoever. So, I split another piece and I still get 12-15% consistently. Now, this is loblolly pine. It's just over a year old. It's the driest wood I have. Don't be fooled; my oak is anywhere from 16-20%. It's 2.5 yrs old and I just can't get it any drier...

At any rate, this is annoying. If this stove is this finicky maybe we aren't meant to be

 

[webby3650]

Hey webby, I did split it but that was a piece of heart wood, small. No sapwood on it whatsoever. So, I split another piece and I still get 12-15% consistently. Now, this is loblolly pine. It's just over a year old. It's the driest wood I have. Don't be fooled; my oak is anywhere from 16-20%. It's 2.5 yrs old and I just can't get it any drier...

At any rate, this is annoying. If this stove is this finicky maybe we aren't meant to be

The stove isn't that picky. It's the least picky of all the stoves I've ran! Something is going on?

 

[motorsargeT]

I have a sirroco 30 and am getting the same smoke smell from the left front by the top of the door. Definitely smoke, not some other smell and its consistent every time I fill it. I hooked the stove up 5 weeks ago and it did it from day 1. It has gotten worse over the past 2 weeks. I let the fire die after it put my father in the hospital on Saturday (reactive airway disorder) and dove into it this morning. There was brown soot staining on the outside of the door gasket on the hinge side where the seam in the gasket is. The gasket bunches up a bit there. It looks identical to the op's gasket pictures he posted in one of his earlier threads. I fluffed the gasket, did a dollar bill test which was fine, and adjusted the door one turn on the latch. I then started it cold with dry kindling and 5 splits I had been putting aside that measured 14-16 percent on the moisture meter. After engaging the cat and dialing it back on the stat, smell is still there. Maybe a bit less, business still there. I'm starting to get frustrated with it and if my father cant visit its going back to blaze king. I just ordered more double wall stove pipe with 45 degree bends to eliminate the 90 I currently have. I have already added 3 feet to the chimney and sealed the stove adapter and the double wall joints. I am running out of ideas on how to eliminate this. The worst part is I had a woodstock ideal steel on deposit and canceled it because I felt the stat on the blaze king would work better in my house. Im sort of regretting it now because they seem to be much more tolerant of not ideal draft.

 

[Calentarse]

Just did a hot reload before bed. I dare say there wasn't AS MUCH smoke spillage. There was definitely still some as I had the door cracked and slowly crept the door open, watching it, and boom! it starts rolling out into the room and rising straight up as I slide a log in there real quick. But my point is, it wasn't as bad as with the single wall. Who knows if this is incidental and unrelated to the double wall. Time will tell.

 

[Calentarse]

I have a sirroco 30 and am getting the same smoke smell from the left front by the top of the door. Definitely smoke, not some other smell and its consistent every time I fill it. I hooked the stove up 5 weeks ago and it did it from day 1. It has gotten worse over the past 2 weeks. I let the fire die after it put my father in the hospital on Saturday (reactive airway disorder) and dove into it this morning. There was brown soot staining on the outside of the door gasket on the hinge side where the seam in the gasket is. The gasket bunches up a bit there. It looks identical to the op's gasket pictures he posted in one of his earlier threads. I fluffed the gasket, did a dollar bill test which was fine, and adjusted the door one turn on the latch. I then started it cold with dry kindling and 5 splits I had been putting aside that measured 14-16 percent on the moisture meter. After engaging the cat and dialing it back on the stat, smell is still there. Maybe a bit less, business still there. I'm starting to get frustrated with it and if my father cant visit its going back to blaze king. I just ordered more double wall stove pipe with 45 degree bends to eliminate the 90 I currently have. I have already added 3 feet to the chimney and sealed the stove adapter and the double wall joints. I am running out of ideas on how to eliminate this. The worst part is I had a woodstock ideal steel on deposit and canceled it because I felt the stat on the blaze king would work better in my house. Im sort of regretting it now because they seem to be much more tolerant of not ideal draft.

Well good to know the gasket issue is not going lead me anywhere. Thought about centering it. Your 90 elimination is a good move. I'm just so tired...

 

[webby3650]

Just did a hot reload before bed. I dare say there wasn't AS MUCH smoke spillage. There was definitely still some as I had the door cracked and slowly crept the door open, watching it, and boom! it starts rolling out into the room and rising straight up as I slide a log in there real quick. But my point is, it wasn't as bad as with the single wall. Who knows if this is incidental and unrelated to the double wall. Time will tell.

So you are getting smoke spillage when you open the door? As well as a smoke smell when you are running with the bypass closed? Does it happen at all settings? Or just lower settings?

 

[cannon]

The smoke smell is coming from the door gasket,it's the way the doors are made, they are just not air tight,I have had 3 doors from blaze king and mine still stinks. The last time I called about it they said I don't know what you want us to do.

 

[rdust]

Maybe this will help? Parallax posted about a door adjustment in his thread. Here is a snip it of his post.

They inspected the stove. The cat looked fine but they found that the source of the leak might be that the door gasket was hitting near the edge on the left side (closest to the hinge). Chris was still on the phone. He ran out to the warehouse to find out if the door could be adjusted on the Ashford. It turned out that the whole front panel could be moved. So he instructed them on how to do that.

Once the stove was adjusted we lit a fire. There was almost no wood smoke smell. Just a tiny bit near one corner of the door. Chris, who had already offered to replace the stove, said he'd be happy to try replacing the door gasket and the cat to see if that fixes it.

 

[pdxdave]

The frustrating part about seeing this play out from my perspective, is that you guys are jumping through ALL the hoops (some multiple times) to get this resolved, but still not even inching towards a resolution to the issue. I can't imagine how it must be for you!

I'm still trying to figure out how a gasket leak could let smoke out...

 

[brad wilton]

Sounds like bad draft, it might be they need a clean run?

 

[webby3650]

The strange part is that smoke is coming out of the stove. That's contrary to a leaky door gasket, it should be sucking air in. Everything points to bad draft, or poor draft caused by an overly tight home. The only time I've seen this happen it was caused by something in the house. Range hood, furnace, clothes dryer etc. Maybe these few people that are experiencing issues with smoke have a pretty severe negative pressure issue in their home? Combine that issue with a stove that is more draft sensitive than others and the problem arises.

 

[motorsargeT]

The strange part is that smoke is coming out of the stove. That's contrary to a leaky door gasket, it should be sucking air in. Everything points to bad draft, or poor draft caused by an overly tight home. The only time I've seen this happen it was caused by something in the house. Range hood, furnace, clothes dryer etc. Maybe these few people that are experiencing issues with smoke have a pretty severe negative pressure issue in their home? Combine that issue with a stove that is more draft sensitive than others and the problem arises.

My house leaks like a sieve. I know that my chimney setup is not ideal but when I open the door on a hot reload I get 0 spillage and the fire takes off up the bypass. The hinge side of my glass and door has from day 1 been covered with a ton more creosote buildup than the latch side. It does not matter how I load it or burn it it builds up a lot more on that side. Inside the stove its the same thing, more buildup on that side. I took some pictures of the gasket this morning after it cooled off a bit but they don't really show what I can see with my eyes. Down low on the gasket the soot line starts and curls around where the knife edge is as it travels up the door until it is on the outside. No visible smoke, but the smell is there. I will post the pics when I can today. My theory is the airflow and smoke flow in the stove is a bit different on that side. Combined with a slightly misplaced gasket seam and marginal draft if causes a way for an escape path for smoke to exit the stove.

 

[webby3650]

My house leaks like a sieve. I know that my chimney setup is not ideal but when I open the door on a hot reload I get 0 spillage and the fire takes off up the bypass. The hinge side of my glass and door has from day 1 been covered with a ton more creosote buildup than the latch side. It does not matter how I load it or burn it it builds up a lot more on that side. Inside the stove its the same thing, more buildup on that side. I took some pictures of the gasket this morning after it cooled off a bit but they don't really show what I can see with my eyes. Down low on the gasket the soot line starts and curls around where the knife edge is as it travels up the door until it is on the outside. No visible smoke, but the smell is there. I will post the pics when I can today. My theory is the airflow and smoke flow in the stove is a bit different on that side. Combined with a slightly misplaced gasket seam and marginal draft if causes a way for an escape path for smoke to exit the stove.

What's your chimney set up like? What's not ideal about it?
Can you just throw a new gasket on it and see if it changes? Or have the installers come back and do it.

 

[motorsargeT]

What's your chimney set up like? What's not ideal about it?
Can you just throw a new gasket on it and see if it changes? Or have the installers come back and do it.

I have an exterior chimney with a thimble. It has 20 feet of class A with 3 feet of double wall inside the house. It has a T on the outside and a 90 degree in the house to penetrate the wall. I installed the stove (I removed the smoke dragon and replaced with this) so no installer to call. I could replace the gasket but am going to wait until I get the new double wall with 45's in. If it stays cold enough. If it doesn't I guess I'll be waiting until the fall.

 

[webby3650]

I have an exterior chimney with a thimble. It has 20 feet of class A with 3 feet of double wall inside the house. It has a T on the outside and a 90 degree in the house to penetrate the wall. I installed the stove (I removed the smoke dragon and replaced with this) so no installer to call. I could replace the gasket but am going to wait until I get the new double wall with 45's in. If it stays cold enough. If it doesn't I guess I'll be waiting until the fall.

That doesn't sound like a bad set up, it should do ok. When you smell the smoke, is the tstat turned down low? Or does it seem to smell at all settings?

 

[motorsargeT]

That doesn't sound like a bad set up, it should do ok. When you smell the smoke, is the tstat turned down low? Or does it seem to smell at all settings?

It smells almost all the time early in the burn but the lower the stat is set the worse it gets. After 8 to 10 hours it is no longer noticeable, but there isn't as much smoke in the Firebox that late in the burn. I can easily get the advertised burn times and everything is exactly as I thought the stove would be except the smell.

I feel as if I am clogging up calentarse's thread. I may start my own unless the mods feel the discussion is pertinent to his situation, which it may be.

 

[motorsargeT]

The staining doesn't really show up in the pictures but there is a distinct soot path curling around the gasket to the outside. I may replace the gasket and see what happens.

 

[Highbeam]

Can both of the chimneys on these problem stoves be eliminated as the cause of smoke spillage? Don't they both meet the minimum and the recommended chimney specs from BK?

The firebox should be airtight. These are welded steel stoves.

I too suffer from smoke rollout when opening the loading door when the firebox still has fuel in it. Never had that at all with the old non-cat on the same chimney. The good news, for me anyways, is that the gasket design on the princess is good enough to seal it in when the door is closed.

Lots of bad PR for BK on this. Do you suppose they are looking into a fix?

 

[Charles1981]

Well now that the chimney has been changed we can kind of rule that out, and also I would think if draft were a concern then the stove would not be performing well and it sounds like it is performing as directed.

And this doesn't seem to be an issue with reloading

This is a constant issue when the stove is closed and running as normal.

Seems like it must be some design issue. but I don't know just conjecture.

 

[Calentarse]

Maybe this will help? Parallax posted about a door adjustment in his thread. Here is a snip it of his post.

Hi rdust. I remember reading this as well, and it gave me some hope. However, a previous post in this thread about the sirocco door gasket lead to the adjustment of the gasket without resolution. It is not the door gasket. My chimney guy did all kinds of tests and said it is sealing tightly.

 

[Calentarse]

Sounds like bad draft, it might be they need a clean run?

If I have to have a clean run, I have to just deal with this issue. I can't put any more money into this problem and that would require moving my entire chimney.

 

[Calentarse]

My house leaks like a sieve. I know that my chimney setup is not ideal but when I open the door on a hot reload I get 0 spillage and the fire takes off up the bypass. The hinge side of my glass and door has from day 1 been covered with a ton more creosote buildup than the latch side. It does not matter how I load it or burn it it builds up a lot more on that side. Inside the stove its the same thing, more buildup on that side. I took some pictures of the gasket this morning after it cooled off a bit but they don't really show what I can see with my eyes. Down low on the gasket the soot line starts and curls around where the knife edge is as it travels up the door until it is on the outside. No visible smoke, but the smell is there. I will post the pics when I can today. My theory is the airflow and smoke flow in the stove is a bit different on that side. Combined with a slightly misplaced gasket seam and marginal draft if causes a way for an escape path for smoke to exit the stove.

Tend to agree and second everything you're saying here. The question is, what do we do?