Black Iron pipe questions

[MrEd]

After weighing all the pros and cons, I think I am going to go with 1 1/4 black iron pipe the 100ft round trip from my Tarm to my oil burner. Never worked with BI pipe before, but I assume it is do-able for a novice....I am going to try and purchase all pre-cut pipes as opposed to cutting/threading in the field.

A few questions:

Is there really a big difference between the Lowes/HD BI pipe and that from a plumbing supply shop? Its is less than 1/2 the price, and I have to assume it is probably all made in China anyway. Plus the local supply co treats you like cr*p once they realize you are not a professional plumber (sad but true at least in my area).

I am not worried about the long straight runs...seems pretty easy to make the joints, but for the close up work, if I wanted to use 1 1/4 copper, can I just put in a brass threaded-to-sweat coupling and switch to copper? Is there any concern with copper and black iron in the same run of pipes? (I am thinking of the problem with dissimilar metals somehow reacting).

Can you mix and match galvanized and BI? or are they different animals altogether?

When supporting 1 1/4 BI pipe overhead in the cellar, how closely spaced should the hangers/supports be? Those pipes are heavy.

Is there any particular sequence that one should use? I am trying to wrap my head around the fact that everything needs to be threaded together, it almost seems like you need to start at one end and work your way all the way to the other in order for the connections to all work - i.e. so that when you a screwing in one connection it is not "unscrewing" from the last one you made, if for example you started at both ends and worked your way to the middle.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

I am not worried about the long straight runs...seems pretty easy to make the joints, but for the close up work, if I wanted to use 1 1/4 copper, can I just put in a brass threaded-to-sweat coupling and switch to copper? Is there any concern with copper and black iron in the same run of pipes? (I am thinking of the problem with dissimilar metals somehow reacting).

You can switch to copper if you like. The adapter will be copper, though, not brass.

Can you mix and match galvanized and BI? or are they different animals altogether?

You could, but I wouldn't recommend using galvanized on a heating system (or for anything, really).

When supporting 1 1/4 BI pipe overhead in the cellar, how closely spaced should the hangers/supports be? Those pipes are heavy.

A potentially-more-important question is how you intend to hang the pipe. A long run like that will have some thermal expansion, and may make a good bit of noise if you use rigid hangers.

Is there any particular sequence that one should use? I am trying to wrap my head around the fact that everything needs to be threaded together, it almost seems like you need to start at one end and work your way all the way to the other in order for the connections to all work - i.e. so that when you a screwing in one connection it is not "unscrewing" from the last one you made, if for example you started at both ends and worked your way to the middle.

You should start at one end. Plan on using unions fittings at some point, though, as you will need to be able to spin the last fitting into the boiler. After it's tight, you can tighten up the union. If you end up switching to copper, you'll solve that problem.

Joe

 

[free75degrees]

I have another question to add on the same topic. How often do joints leak and need to be redone? It would be a major pain if a joint near the beginning of a run leaked and the whole thing had to be taken apart and redone. I am using about 5 turns of pink teflon with a bead of the no.5 rector seal on top of that. I then use 12" pipe wrenches to get them to almost as tight as I can get them. Am I likely to have any leaks with these joints?

 

[chuck172]

You should have someone with you that knows what he's doing. At least in the beginning. I really don't think this line of work is for inexperienced. There is a lot to it. Running pipe is one thing. The technical aspect another.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

I have another question to add on the same topic. How often do joints leak and need to be redone? It would be a major pain if a joint near the beginning of a run leaked and the whole thing had to be taken apart and redone. I am using about 5 turns of pink teflon with a bead of the no.5 rector seal on top of that. I then use 12" pipe wrenches to get them to almost as tight as I can get them. Am I likely to have any leaks with these joints?

That depends upon how strong your arms are. Most folks use wrenches in the 18"-24" range for black iron pipe of that size.

Don't worry about putting a lot of tape on the joint. Tape is a lubricant, to help you tighten the joint without strain. The joint compound is what will make the real seal.

Actually, I rarely ever use tape, and certain pipe joint compounds specifically state not to use tape. A good joint compound with PTFE in it will serve both the lubrication and sealing functions.

Joe

 

[rickh1001]

Mr. Ed,

I am just finishing up the black iron 1 1/2" piping for the primary loop, including the 500 gal LP storage tank. I can't wait to get into copper. I might just take up professional arm wresting, after threading all the various joints with the manual Rigid pipe threader. It is a lot of work. However, as it nears completion, it is a thing of beauty.

I had all the pipe wrenches, pipe vise and dies from my father back when I was a kid growing up on the farm. I almost threw them out several times, as I figured no one would ever work with steel pipe anymore, with all the plastic stuff. Glad I kept it all. Maybe my kids will put in their own wood boilers one day using the same tools.

I put a number of unions and full port ball valves in at critical positions. I wanted to make sure for example that I could isolate the 500 gal storage tank without having to drain it, if there was problem somewhere else. I also have unions on the boiler, in case that ever needs replacement. The near boiler piping is tedious, by the time you get done with the low water switch, air remover, circulator and purge valve. I put in an extra 1 1/5" valve that I can close, and open the boiler valve for purging the system. I also added combination pressure/temp gauges on the supply and return pipes by adding T's in line.

The I=B=R manual lists not more than 7 feet between supports for 1 1/4" steel pipe horizontal, and 9 ft vertical.

The biggest problem I had was getting the alignment of the LP tank and the boiler piping, without added excessive elbows. I had to take it all apart once, and start again. If you imagine the pipe in two planes, vertical and horizontal, sometimes you need two elbows in order to give you the freedom of movement to match everything up correctly.

It has taken me two full weekends, and I am just about done with the iron pipe work. It can certainly be done by an amateur like me. Just take your time, and make every joint a good one, then move on to the next. It also pays to buy extra fittings like elbows, close nipples and short nipples and unions, as you can never anticipate everything, and it saves trips to the hardware store.

It is a pain, but a local plumber quoted $6,000 to do the install. I will have done everything he quoted for, and will have spent only about $2,300 total, including 4 circulators, when I am done. Makes it worth the extra time, plus I can license myself as a plumber in the future if I am out of work or something.

Good luck! Go for it.

 

[Donl]

If you do get a small bit of leakage in B.P. joints is there a "stop leak" product you can use? Something like the "stop leak" you can use in your car's radiator.

 

[cvanhat]

we work with threaded pipe here at the farm all the time. rector seal is about as good as there is. put a coat on both sets of threads. leaking with threaded pipe is unusual, other than a drip here or there and they ussually seal up over time. put in some unions near the storage tank and then again near the boiler, and going through a wall so it can be taken apart easily. pumps should have isolation flanges. you can also add a unoin near any item that may have to be replaced down the road.

 

[chuck172]

We always use wicking and black permatex. Messy, but works great.

 

[tire man]

I am not worried about the long straight runs...seems pretty easy to make the joints, but for the close up work, if I wanted to use 1 1/4 copper, can I just put in a brass threaded-to-sweat coupling and switch to copper? Is there any concern with copper and black iron in the same run of pipes? (I am thinking of the problem with dissimilar metals somehow reacting).

You can switch to copper if you like. The adapter will be copper, though, not brass.

Can you mix and match galvanized and BI? or are they different animals altogether?

You could, but I wouldn't recommend using galvanized on a heating system (or for anything, really).

When supporting 1 1/4 BI pipe overhead in the cellar, how closely spaced should the hangers/supports be? Those pipes are heavy.

A potentially-more-important question is how you intend to hang the pipe. A long run like that will have some thermal expansion, and may make a good bit of noise if you use rigid hangers.

Is there any particular sequence that one should use? I am trying to wrap my head around the fact that everything needs to be threaded together, it almost seems like you need to start at one end and work your way all the way to the other in order for the connections to all work - i.e. so that when you a screwing in one connection it is not "unscrewing" from the last one you made, if for example you started at both ends and worked your way to the middle.

You should start at one end. Plan on using unions fittings at some point, though, as you will need to be able to spin the last fitting into the boiler. After it's tight, you can tighten up the union. If you end up switching to copper, you'll solve that problem.

Joe

Why wouldn't you use galvanized pipe?

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Why wouldn't you use galvanized pipe?

The galvanization can react with other components in the system, as well as certain water treatments.

It was intended for domestic water, but it really serves no purpose in modern systems.

Joe

 

[Willman]

I have to assume it is probably all made in China anyway.

To answer your question regarding Chinese pipe and fittings. I have found some quality issues on these items. Particularly the unions. Some don't quite line up. Just had to drain down and change. The one supply house that I can deal with carries fittings from Thailand. They look better than the Chinese stuff in finish .The unions were right on, no leaks. Properly threaded, quality pipe usually doesn't leak. I hand cut my own and use plenty of oil for the cut. Some of the Chinese pipe sometimes chips on the reversal of the die.
I am not certain what the pro supply houses carry, but would think it must be first rate stuff. The labor rate is more than saving a few bucks on the pipe. As well as warranty issues.
Just my two cents as I am not a pro.
Wil

 

[heaterman]

Before you take the plunge you may want to double check the price. Steel pipe and tube just took a jump of nearly 40%. Something to do with a tariff that was just enacted on imported stuff.