Blaze king disappointment

[Woodheat58]

Hello! New guy here so take it easy with the thread title lol. I've searched the web high and low for this topic and have read a lot of threads. But I come to the oracles here for some solid advice!
House is 1800 sq feet with the upstairs door closed off as I don't use it. King is sitting in the middle room. I came from a 70's or 80's model Timberline that came with the house. I really did like it and it would heat the house from 52 after dying out overnight to 76 by 8pm on days when it was in the mid 30s and above. Problem was it would eat wood and would not keep a fire overnight. A LOT of research was done with what to replace it with. I found a used King and jumped on it. It was used because the guy who bought it new hooked it up to a 8 to 6 reducer that didn't have a high enough rise to the 90 and it never would get to temp and made so much creosote that it would not operate properly so he traded it in on a 6in princess. Based on the used condition and knowing it was a catalyst stove I replaced the cat that was pitch black and had cracks with a brand new stainless Condor. This definitely helped the performance of the stove.
Well that was in 2017. I was looking forward to 12 hr burn times on high and being smoked out of the house with being able to get it to 80 based on the "old school" non epa Timberline performance. Now two years later I've about had it with this thing.
Wood is coming in at 21 or less on the meter. A mix of oak, hickory, ash, black locust. Out of the roof is a good 36in. of pipe The house is a poorly insulated 1955 farmhouse yes, but the old Timberline would power through that problem. I really do like it for the overnight burn though, I'll give it that.
Any advice you can give?
I've attached a couple pics of the setup
Many thanks!

 

[begreen]

So the issue is not with burn time, but rather with maximum heat output in cold weather. Is that correct?

What is the length of the flue system from stove top to chimney cap?

 

[lsucet]

Also what are your burning techniques and operation of the stove? More details will help for sure.

 

[moresnow]

Wood is coming in at 21 or less on the meter

Welcome to Hearth. Describe in detail how you are checking moisture content if you get a moment.

Your original post depicts a partial load burning. Is this typical? Most BK users pack the stove for full heat output and burn times. It makes a significant difference in mine. Curious.

As you purchased the stove used did you get a operators manual with it? Are you running it according to the manual? Just a few things that will help get you advice here.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Hello! New guy here so take it easy with the thread title lol. I've searched the web high and low for this topic and have read a lot of threads. But I come to the oracles here for some solid advice!
House is 1800 sq feet with the upstairs door closed off as I don't use it. King is sitting in the middle room. I came from a 70's or 80's model Timberline that came with the house. I really did like it and it would heat the house from 52 after dying out overnight to 76 by 8pm on days when it was in the mid 30s and above. Problem was it would eat wood and would not keep a fire overnight. A LOT of research was done with what to replace it with. I found a used King and jumped on it. It was used because the guy who bought it new hooked it up to a 8 to 6 reducer that didn't have a high enough rise to the 90 and it never would get to temp and made so much creosote that it would not operate properly so he traded it in on a 6in princess. Based on the used condition and knowing it was a catalyst stove I replaced the cat that was pitch black and had cracks with a brand new stainless Condor. This definitely helped the performance of the stove.
Well that was in 2017. I was looking forward to 12 hr burn times on high and being smoked out of the house with being able to get it to 80 based on the "old school" non epa Timberline performance. Now two years later I've about had it with this thing.
Wood is coming in at 21 or less on the meter. A mix of oak, hickory, ash, black locust. Out of the roof is a good 36in. of pipe The house is a poorly insulated 1955 farmhouse yes, but the old Timberline would power through that problem. I really do like it for the overnight burn though, I'll give it that.
Any advice you can give?
I've attached a couple pics of the setup
Many thanks!

I suspect a bunch of the heat is going out that window to the right of the stove. And if your poorly insulated farmhouse is anything like my poorly insulated farmhouse, your best course of action would be to start plugging up holes and get it tightened up as much as you can.

Your old stove was probably just pumping out so many BTUs as to overcome the leakiness. And burning tons of fuel to do so.

 

[Woodheat58]

Yes, first and foremost is maximum heat output. With the Timberline I could not be in that same room too long. I can sit in front of this thing 3 feet away. Length is 60 in double wall pipe to celing into duraliner about 30 in to roof. Out of the roof I'd say 36in to no more than 42 in. including the cap.
I check the moisture with a moisture meter I bought from Lowe's. The General brand. If it's over 22% it doesn't go in the stove.
I'd say my biggest disappointment is the total heat output. Going from the timberline to this, I really thought I would have to open the windows. Unless I'm doing something drastically wrong here, I'm looking at trading this thing in on something else.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

How far is the stove from the wall? Even if it’s all non-combustible, isn’t there a minimum distance so that the thermostatic control doesn’t get overheated and keep the stove dampened down? Could that be causing lower heat output than desired?

 

[Mnpellet]

Are you testing moisture on a fresh room temperature split? Something doesn’t seem right. I wouldn’t sit that close to my ashford on high and that king should cook you pretty good three feet away I would think. What temps are you seeing on stove or pipe?

 

[jetsam]

Those old stoves put off a ton of heat in a hurry, but new ones make a lot more heat with the same wood over a longer amount of time.

If the King's peak BTU output isn't enough for 1800sf in Ohio, you have a few choices.

Here's the main question: Do you want to cut, split, and stack 6 cords to do a 3 cord job every year?

The best option is to work on your insulation and windows. This keeps you at one modern stove and saves a mountain of wood.

You could also add a stove so you are not having to burn the one on high all the time... which is kind of avoiding the problem, but the wood usage is better than option three.

And of course you could go back to the smoke dragon. Again, that's avoiding the root of the problem, and you pay a big penalty in wood consumption, but you won't be cold while the stove is fed.

Also, the King's high end BTU output is really high. Not 70s Timberline high, but high enough that I wonder how your wood and draft are. Are you measuring on a fresh split face at 70°?

 

[begreen]

Yes, first and foremost is maximum heat output. With the Timberline I could not be in that same room too long. I can sit in front of this thing 3 feet away. Length is 60 in double wall pipe to celing into duraliner about 30 in to roof. Out of the roof I'd say 36in to no more than 42 in. including the cap.
I check the moisture with a moisture meter I bought from Lowe's. The General brand. If it's over 22% it doesn't go in the stove.
I'd say my biggest disappointment is the total heat output. Going from the timberline to this, I really thought I would have to open the windows. Unless I'm doing something drastically wrong here, I'm looking at trading this thing in on something else.

So 60+30+36= 126" or 10' 6" of flue. That is under spec. It should be at least 13-15'.

For the moisture test, are you splitting the wood in half and testing on the freshly exposed face of wood with the prongs pushed firmly into the wood?

The old Timberline was just a steel shell. It was highly radiant due to the lack of anything but steel between the fire and the room. The BK is entirely different with an insulated firebox and a catalyst. It is going to produce most of the heat from around the cat, at the top of the stove unless the thermostat is set high. If the home is well insulated this doesn't matter that much as the room will still warm up fine. Wood consumption will be a magnitude less than the old Timberline, but the strongly radiant heat feeling, is going to be different. Is the stove keeping the house warm?

 

[Tar12]

begreen is spot on...you need more pipe! My friend runs a King on 18ft of pipe and I promise you that you will not set 3 ft away in front of it very long! I am running 13 ft on my Princess and can not set in front of it...in your picture it shows its running wide open...is this how you always run it? Also is there a gasket around your cat? The reason I ask that some were told it was not necessary and this resulted in a sloppy fit for the steel cats...

 

[MTY]

I have a king on 15' of pipe. At 5' or so I feel as if my brains are melting and running out my ears. As long as the outside temp does not drop into the low teens, we can heat 2700 square feet without cranking the thermostat wide open.

I have had others tell me that switching from an older stove to a BK was a difficult adjustment due to the completely different way they operate. I made the switch fairly easily but only because I never expected them to behave in the same manner.

 

[weatherguy]

Your best bet is to solve the issue with this one because any other stove will have the same problems other than a smoke dragon.

 

[paulnlee]

His meter doesn't have prongs, I have the same one

 

[Nigel459]

Your best bet is to solve the issue with this one because any other stove will have the same problems other than a smoke dragon.

Not so sure, I suspect an “easy breather” pacific energy or the like would fare better with the warmer flue temps etc... just sayin

 

[webby3650]

Not so sure, I suspect an “easy breather” pacific energy or the like would fare better with the warmer flue temps etc... just sayin

Not if he’s looking for surface of the sun kind of temperatures. The King is a monster heater, if installed and operated properly.

 

[begreen]

Not if he’s looking for surface of the sun kind of temperatures. The King is a monster heater, if installed and operated properly.

Yes, I'd try to improve performance and check my wood supply. However, there are some folks that regardless of room temp just want that intense radiant heat (remember oldspark?). If that is the case I would suggest putting in a Drolet Austral II. The sides are unshielded so the stove radiates a lot of heat, but it still needs fully seasoned wood.

His meter doesn't have prongs, I have the same one

(PS: My General meter has two sharp probes.)

 

[Woodheat58]

Ok the "official measurement is 66 from King to ceiling, another 60 to the roof, and without getting on the roof, theres at least 4 ft because that sucker is tall.
I've never measured a fresh split cord. I'll try that.
There is not gasket around the Condor. Before I bought that, I called them directly to make sure, because I found it hard to believe. But they said don't use a gasket so I didnt.
I ALWAYS run this thing on wide open. The cat stat will go all the way to max, even a little more, at which time I turn on the fan kit. That's when this thing puts out some good heat. Not Timberline heat, but real high heat that heats the house. I didn't think I'd have to run that high to heat such a small amount of space though!

 

[rdust]

How hot are you trying to keep the house? What does a fully loaded stove consist of?

Full load in my Princess.



I heat almost 2000 sq’ in Michigan with my Princess with two loads a day.(1980 build so insulation is so poor at best) When it gets single digit cold for multiple days I close the doors into my living room which knocks off around 300 sq’. If I leave the living room open I have to load a partial load after work.

 

[Highbeam]

Ok the "official measurement is 66 from King to ceiling, another 60 to the roof, and without getting on the roof, theres at least 4 ft because that sucker is tall.
I've never measured a fresh split cord. I'll try that.
There is not gasket around the Condor. Before I bought that, I called them directly to make sure, because I found it hard to believe. But they said don't use a gasket so I didnt.
I ALWAYS run this thing on wide open. The cat stat will go all the way to max, even a little more, at which time I turn on the fan kit. That's when this thing puts out some good heat. Not Timberline heat, but real high heat that heats the house. I didn't think I'd have to run that high to heat such a small amount of space though!

You’re doing what you have to do to stay warm. Obviously, your heat load is too much for this stove alone so you’ll need to use your home’s other heat sources when it can’t keep up. You could also add another stove, or replace this king with something larger such as a wood furnace.

 

[rdust]

I think the fist post is telling of the heat load, the house drops to 52* after the old stove went out overnight when it’s in the 30’s?? Am I reading that right??

 

[showrguy]

Regardless of heat load, that stove with proper CAT and propper fuel should have no problem heating 1000 sq. ft.
Something is'nt adding up here ??

 

[rdust]

Regardless of heat load, that stove with proper CAT and propper fuel should have no problem heating 1000 sq. ft.
Something is'nt adding up here ??

My thought is the stove will work better if the doors and windows get closed.

 

[Woodheat58]

Yes you are reading that right!
I would have to shut the timberline to low by closing the knobs on the doors and just let it fizzle out because it would never keep heat overnight. I’d wake up and get it going and be warm within a couple hours.
I guess I was thinking the king would outheat that old stove no problem. I had too much hope in it and was disappointed with it.
It does give off a good radiant heat and I’m sure it would be perfect for a properly insulated house. And I really do like it for the overnight burns.
I searched YouTube yesterday for blaze king videos and came across a guy who basically felt like I did in a review. He got rid of it for an iron strike canyon st 310 and loved it.
I really don’t want to get rid of it already but I miss those super heated house days!

 

[Woodheat58]

Here's that review I was talking about. I feel the same way this guy does!

FWIW - I have both types of stoves and burn only seasoned red and while oak. A Blaze King Ultra cat stove for a 3200 sf house and a Lennox/Country Canyon ST-310 (Ironstrike) secondary burner stove (which is now in a large garage). The Blaze King is a pain in the ass, requires attention on every fill up, has a dirty chimney at the end of every season, gives a good 8 hour burn time, but the heat diminishes in the last 4 hours. The Lennox is very easy to use, doesn't require much attention, leaves a very clean chimney in fact so clean, that I normally only have to brush out the stovepipe and not the chimney itself, and it gives about a 6 hour burn time with the heat diminishing in the last 3 hours. The Lennox required about 7/8 cords per year to heat the 3200 sf house and the Blaze King requires about 5/6 cords per year to heat the 3200 sf house. The Lennox gives more intense heat early on and less in the end of the burn cycle. The Blaze King gives less intense heat early on but stays fairly steady for several hours before diminishing in the end of the burn cycle. I purchased new stainless burner tubes for the Lennox. I am installing them this year and going to modify the air inlet with a bi-metal air intake device where I can close off the air in the beginning of the burn cycle and then let the bi-metal device open the air gradually during the later stages of the burn cycle. If this works out next year where the garage is more efficiently heated than the house, the Lennox will be moved back into the house and the Blaze King will get demoted to the garage. I'll try to post my findings in a year from now.
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