never thought I would say this since it seems like an over-sized beast went it is 'just cold' out, but now that it is 'fairly cold' out the BK seems to be struggling to keep up. I think the limiting factor is the cat temp. my stack temp is under 300 so lot's of room to spare there, and the thermostat is in the middle of the normal range, so lots more air to be fed. but the cat temp is near the top of the range, and that is my limit then. I have the fan on high, and that helps some, but I am surprised and disappointed to barely be sustaining room temperature. even running this hot, I was amazed that last night the fan was cutting in and out, as if the thermostat were not hot enough? any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong or where the system can be tweaked? thanks
Blaze King struggling?
- Thread starter FisherZip
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The first thing that comes to my mind is the question, do you have a new tight house that might prevent the necessary combustion air. Just my opinion as you will be flooded with more real soon.
hey Hanko, thanks for the reply. nope, it's an old farmhouse, but with new windows and insulation. haven't done a blower test, but I know that there are still enough drafts to feed the beast. actually, I think I might have just figured something out. I had some random pieces of cast iron and soapstone on top of the stove, because thermal mass is good, right? wrong. I took that crap off and the cat temp immediately dropped to 50%, allowing me to turn up the t-stat and the room is already getting warmer. duh. here I thought I was doing a good thing. I was smart enough to put the stuff along the edges of the top so as not to cover the cat, but I guess I encroached on it enough to block the heat from radiating off the cat like it should. lesson learned. so, if I had been impressed by the performance and efficiency of the beast until now, I can't wait to see what she's gonna do now that I stopped handicapping her! will let you know how we do. cheers
The only mass you need with a cat stove is a massive pile of fuel in that huge firebox. Thermal mass is a low tech way of extending the burn cycle, your cat extends the burn cycle more.
Take a 5 gallong bucket w/ a 3 inch hole in the bottom of it. Could you fill it w/ a garden hose? Nope, since it loses more than it gains. Your options are to either make the hole smaller or get a bigger garden hose. (insulate your house or get a second wood stove)
pen
pen
Nice fix Fisherzip. If you run into anything else, I would happily stop by in exchange for some of your fresh year round citrus.
FisherZip said:
Congrats, and way to trouble shoot! this confirms my point in another thread, that soapstone has both thermal mass and insulation, and adding it to an existing stove will alter its performance in unpredictable ways.
Happy Burning!
Glad you got it figured out.. I would SO love to just set my thermostat and forget it again.. I will be waiting on the UPS man tomorrow, you can bet on it!
Jason
Jason
thanks team. right now it's 15 outside, 80 inside. not because I want it to be 80 in here, I just wanted to see that I could, haha! actually, I'm surprised it's not 100. maybe if i had some black locust... still, 80 is pretty good for some mediocre sickly maple. for the record, my apologies to BK, this was a case of user error.
solar, you are welcome to stop by anytime you're near Auburn! I still have some homebrew with your name on it, a pineapple plant too, I haven't forgotten. no citrus fruit on right now because I just repotted everything a couple months ago. but come spring I'll have some lemon tree cuttings, and maybe a fig if you want. the new greenhouse rocks; 15 outside, 45 inside right now (night). on a sunny winter day it can dump 100 air in the house. heated only with solar by day and I guess you'd call it geothermal by night (it's sunk 4' into the ground and swaps some air with the basement). start clearing some window space brother, get ready to be a window farmer.
solar, you are welcome to stop by anytime you're near Auburn! I still have some homebrew with your name on it, a pineapple plant too, I haven't forgotten. no citrus fruit on right now because I just repotted everything a couple months ago. but come spring I'll have some lemon tree cuttings, and maybe a fig if you want. the new greenhouse rocks; 15 outside, 45 inside right now (night). on a sunny winter day it can dump 100 air in the house. heated only with solar by day and I guess you'd call it geothermal by night (it's sunk 4' into the ground and swaps some air with the basement). start clearing some window space brother, get ready to be a window farmer.
An update on the BK after one full season, with comments on the 'set it and forget it' notion...
First let me say, this beast is a marvel and a thing of beauty. It’s not so beautiful sitting there on the hearth, in fact it is very industrial looking (I didn’t get a model with any fancy trim or anything). But looking at my chimney and seeing zero smoke is beautiful. Feeding the stove at a fraction of the rate I used to, watching my woodpile shrink at a fraction of the rate it used to, and knowing that my workload is a fraction all around, those are all beautiful. And seeing the stove at those rare points in its cycle when the cat is hot and casting its cherry glow across an otherwise dark room, or seeing the aurora borealis dancing at the top of your firebox, far above the coals, where woodgas and smoke meet secondary air, those are literally beautiful.
That said, I can throw out a couple gripes. Having a cat sticking down into the firebox is an annoyance. I might be one of the few people stepping down in firebox size with a BK (I had a Fisher Grandpa Bear before, huge firebox), and that cat sticking down is a pain. Makes for a little Tetris sometimes trying to get everything to fit in around it just right, racing against a live coal bed below that is lighting the splits as you are putting them in. And you ain't been burned until you've touched a hot cat...instantaneous searing, white, like a fried egg. Still, even if the box is smaller, it burns way longer, so I can't complain. too much. ;-)
Starting a fire or re-loading a fire takes some time, it’s not at all 'set it and forget it' unless I am missing something. You gotta start out hot and gradually reduce temps until you are where you want to be. For example, let's say it is the kind of day where you want to be burning with the tstat at 1. You get your fuel burning, get the cat up to temp, even burn it hot for some time, as recommended in the manual. But then you can't just go from 3 to 1. If you clamp down the tstat too fast, the chimney starts to smoke, and even after and hour with the cat temp way up in the active zone, it's still smoking. But if you drop the tstat a half point every half hour or so, no smoke, even down to the point where the tstat is vertical (less than 1).
I like to follow each fueling with a 'hot burn'. I think this does a couple things. It burns any creosote off the firebox walls and the glass (I haven't found anything else that works on the glass, don't know what you 'wet ash on newspaper' people are doing…). It also heats the wood and burns moisture etc. off. But much to my confusion, there doesn't seem to be a way to have a really hot firebox unless you open the door. Even with the vents wide open (tstat maxed) there is not enough air coming in to get really hot. So, I have to sit there with the door a little open until the firebox is full of flames and they are licking up the stack and the stack temp gets up to ~550. But, you have to sit right there, because with the door cracked the fire could very easily get away from you. When I hit 550 I close the door, and even though the tstat is maxed, the fire quickly settles back down on its own. By the time it is back to 300 or less, the cat is well into the active zone and I close the bypass. The manual kinda implies that it is much simpler than this, stating in one place: “Let the fire burn on setting 2-3 for 20-30 minutes, or until the fire is well established, then turn the thermostat to the desired setting.†Sorta ‘set it and forget it.’ But as I said, even on setting 3+, the fire is slow to establish without the door ajar, and once established, the thermostat has to be adjusted slowly, not just set to any old desired setting. If you read the manually carefully though, you can find key details in other places:
“Leave the air control in the fully open position (3) for 15 minutes, (or until the fire is well established) before making further adjustments. Turning down the thermostat too soon may cause creosote formation in the chimney. Once the fire is well established, adjustments may be made for a Low, medium or high fire, depending on heat needs of the home. The glass will stay cleanest when the new load of fuel is burned on high for up to 30 minutes. The moisture in a new load contributes a large part of the deposit on the glass. Burning that moisture off, before turning the thermostat to low, helps keep the glass clean. For a low fire, (12,000 to 15,000 Btu/hour) getting the fire well established is particularly critical. If the wood being used is not well seasoned, it may be necessary to leave the air control setting in the fully open position for much longer than 15 minutes to assure a clean, low burn. When the fire is burning well on high, reset the air control in steps to medium, then lower, over a 5-10 minute period.†I say again that the fully open position is not enough air for my stove, I gotta crack the door, but otherwise I agree: burn hot to start, then adjust tstat GRADUALLY to desired setting.
“All changes to the Thermostat should be done gradually. When you first light the stove and you are using the “High†setting, move the Thermostat towards “Medium†at 20 minute intervals. After the stove has operated at Medium for an hour or so, then you can move towards low. The Thermostat is sensitive and must be adjusted gradually. Too rapid an adjustment will cause the stove to operate improperly.â€
In sum, it's a great stove for those who like efficiency and have time to tinker, but not as simple as some might think. I certainly would not leave it in the hands of a house sitter, that's what the backup propane furnace is for...set THAT and forget it!
Cheers
First let me say, this beast is a marvel and a thing of beauty. It’s not so beautiful sitting there on the hearth, in fact it is very industrial looking (I didn’t get a model with any fancy trim or anything). But looking at my chimney and seeing zero smoke is beautiful. Feeding the stove at a fraction of the rate I used to, watching my woodpile shrink at a fraction of the rate it used to, and knowing that my workload is a fraction all around, those are all beautiful. And seeing the stove at those rare points in its cycle when the cat is hot and casting its cherry glow across an otherwise dark room, or seeing the aurora borealis dancing at the top of your firebox, far above the coals, where woodgas and smoke meet secondary air, those are literally beautiful.
That said, I can throw out a couple gripes. Having a cat sticking down into the firebox is an annoyance. I might be one of the few people stepping down in firebox size with a BK (I had a Fisher Grandpa Bear before, huge firebox), and that cat sticking down is a pain. Makes for a little Tetris sometimes trying to get everything to fit in around it just right, racing against a live coal bed below that is lighting the splits as you are putting them in. And you ain't been burned until you've touched a hot cat...instantaneous searing, white, like a fried egg. Still, even if the box is smaller, it burns way longer, so I can't complain. too much. ;-)
Starting a fire or re-loading a fire takes some time, it’s not at all 'set it and forget it' unless I am missing something. You gotta start out hot and gradually reduce temps until you are where you want to be. For example, let's say it is the kind of day where you want to be burning with the tstat at 1. You get your fuel burning, get the cat up to temp, even burn it hot for some time, as recommended in the manual. But then you can't just go from 3 to 1. If you clamp down the tstat too fast, the chimney starts to smoke, and even after and hour with the cat temp way up in the active zone, it's still smoking. But if you drop the tstat a half point every half hour or so, no smoke, even down to the point where the tstat is vertical (less than 1).
I like to follow each fueling with a 'hot burn'. I think this does a couple things. It burns any creosote off the firebox walls and the glass (I haven't found anything else that works on the glass, don't know what you 'wet ash on newspaper' people are doing…). It also heats the wood and burns moisture etc. off. But much to my confusion, there doesn't seem to be a way to have a really hot firebox unless you open the door. Even with the vents wide open (tstat maxed) there is not enough air coming in to get really hot. So, I have to sit there with the door a little open until the firebox is full of flames and they are licking up the stack and the stack temp gets up to ~550. But, you have to sit right there, because with the door cracked the fire could very easily get away from you. When I hit 550 I close the door, and even though the tstat is maxed, the fire quickly settles back down on its own. By the time it is back to 300 or less, the cat is well into the active zone and I close the bypass. The manual kinda implies that it is much simpler than this, stating in one place: “Let the fire burn on setting 2-3 for 20-30 minutes, or until the fire is well established, then turn the thermostat to the desired setting.†Sorta ‘set it and forget it.’ But as I said, even on setting 3+, the fire is slow to establish without the door ajar, and once established, the thermostat has to be adjusted slowly, not just set to any old desired setting. If you read the manually carefully though, you can find key details in other places:
“Leave the air control in the fully open position (3) for 15 minutes, (or until the fire is well established) before making further adjustments. Turning down the thermostat too soon may cause creosote formation in the chimney. Once the fire is well established, adjustments may be made for a Low, medium or high fire, depending on heat needs of the home. The glass will stay cleanest when the new load of fuel is burned on high for up to 30 minutes. The moisture in a new load contributes a large part of the deposit on the glass. Burning that moisture off, before turning the thermostat to low, helps keep the glass clean. For a low fire, (12,000 to 15,000 Btu/hour) getting the fire well established is particularly critical. If the wood being used is not well seasoned, it may be necessary to leave the air control setting in the fully open position for much longer than 15 minutes to assure a clean, low burn. When the fire is burning well on high, reset the air control in steps to medium, then lower, over a 5-10 minute period.†I say again that the fully open position is not enough air for my stove, I gotta crack the door, but otherwise I agree: burn hot to start, then adjust tstat GRADUALLY to desired setting.
“All changes to the Thermostat should be done gradually. When you first light the stove and you are using the “High†setting, move the Thermostat towards “Medium†at 20 minute intervals. After the stove has operated at Medium for an hour or so, then you can move towards low. The Thermostat is sensitive and must be adjusted gradually. Too rapid an adjustment will cause the stove to operate improperly.â€
In sum, it's a great stove for those who like efficiency and have time to tinker, but not as simple as some might think. I certainly would not leave it in the hands of a house sitter, that's what the backup propane furnace is for...set THAT and forget it!
Cheers
Fisher, with all due respect, I think your idea of that hot of a fire after each burn is sort of "old school" thinking and totally wrong. Furthermore, if I had to do what you are doing after every load I would do one of 3 things.
1. I'd get a different stove
2. I'd get some better wood.
3. I'd quit burning wood.
Please don't take these remarks wrong, it is just that there should be no reason to do what you are doing. I also have never liked this idea of burning the stove hot to get rid of creosote. Much better is to burn in such a way that you get no creosote to start with.
1. I'd get a different stove
2. I'd get some better wood.
3. I'd quit burning wood.
Please don't take these remarks wrong, it is just that there should be no reason to do what you are doing. I also have never liked this idea of burning the stove hot to get rid of creosote. Much better is to burn in such a way that you get no creosote to start with.
What kind of chimney do you have? Looking back at your old posts it looked like you had a 6x10 outside wall chimney. Did you reline it? Sounds like you have a draft problem and probably need to burn it a little on the hot side to keep that chimney warm.
Thanks Savage - no worries, I am here to learn. Understand, I’m not talking about a wide open fire to burn creosote out of the chimney, which I agree is old school and unsafe. I’m talking about a regular hot fire, mid-upper burn zone (550 stack temp), to clean the firebox/glass and to burn off much of the last of the residual wood moisture, as recommended in the owner’s manual. That’s not old school, is it? I can’t quit burning wood, can’t afford anything else. I can’t get ‘better’ wood, what I have now is 3 year old well aged hardwood. And I don’t want to get a different stove, but I do think there might be different ways to get better results from this stove, which is why I am here in this forum.
Todd - switched to a s.s. all-fuel 8†interior chimney, straight shot up through ceiling/roof, everything with factory recommended clearance/height to the letter. Never any problems with draft at startup, no backpuffs ever. And no way this drafty old farmhouse is too tight to let the BK breathe.
cheers
Todd - switched to a s.s. all-fuel 8†interior chimney, straight shot up through ceiling/roof, everything with factory recommended clearance/height to the letter. Never any problems with draft at startup, no backpuffs ever. And no way this drafty old farmhouse is too tight to let the BK breathe.
cheers
Ok, your draft should be fine with that new chimney, maybe some of the BK owners will chime in to help you out. It doesn't sound like it's burning the way it should. I remember a thread where a few Blaze King thermostats were wound backwards, maybe yours is messed up?
I have a Princess but it doesn't burn anything like you describe during start up. Something has to be wrong, there is no reason you should have to keep the door open in order to get the stove up to 500*. I can close the door from a cold start within minutes and have the CAT engaged after 10-15 minutes if I start with full splits. If I start by burning a load of kindling(stove likes this best) and loading on top of the coals I have even better results. After I engage the cat I burn on 3 for 10-15 minutes, 2 for a little while then down to 1 for this time of year.
I'm new with this stove so hopefully some of the vets will chime in.
I'm new with this stove so hopefully some of the vets will chime in.
Rdust After you are at one for a while, whats your stove top temp with the blowers off? Do you get long burns this way? Do you end up with coals or ash at the end of the cycle?
Thanks in advance.
Jason
Thanks in advance.
Jason
jtb51b said:
It stays pretty hot for a while after hitting 1. I loaded probably 3/4 full last night at 9 pm with ash and silver maple, I turned in about midnight with a stove top in the 500* range.(I run the fans on low until I was almost ready to turn in to keep the cat temp safe) When I woke up this morning at 8 am it was a little over 300* on the stove top(cat still active) with full chunks off wood almost up to the bricks.(this thing is silly!) I turned it up to 3 and let it burn while I got ready, I turned it down to 2 for bit and 1 as I walked out the door. When I got home at 5:30ish the top was around 150* I opened the bypass, turned it up to 3 and let it burn for a bit, I loaded some kindling on top of the coals and it took off. I didn't have a lot of coals but I raked them into the middle and loaded the kindling on top of them. I don't think I would have been able to light full splits on the coals that I had. Either way these stoves are crazy, I hate the dirty glass but I'm getting used to it quickly with it's performance.
Tonight is supposed to get into the 30's so I'll load it full after the kindling burns down and let it go. It's not cold yet but loading just about once a day is nuts.
Zip, are we talking full loads on a bed of coals or a partial load cold start? If you are loading on coals, you shouldn't need the door cracked very long at all to have a load fully engulfed. Maybe a minute tops depending on what you are loading? Close the door, turn down to 3 until the cat lights off. Again, should happen very quickly. After that, you can drop it down.
I do full loads even in these temps, not sure how it does with partials.
I do full loads even in these temps, not sure how it does with partials.
Hey Solar, long time no chat. I always do a full load. If I have a screaming bed of coals, then sure, things get going much more quickly than with a cold start or low coals. No surprises there. But what I did not expect is that all variations require an open door to get things going in any reasonable amount of time. Maybe my vents are not working properly, or the tstat is not controlling them properly? It's not a big deal, once I have the door open long enough to get things heading hot enough to close the door and soon engage the cat, from that point a low air supply is fine to keep things going, it's just not enough to get them started. Am I explaining that well enough? cheers
There was talk a while back about some stoves with T-Stats that had the bi-metallic strip in them wound backwards. I wonder if this could be one of those?
FYI, I just loaded off a decent coal bed 20 minutes ago, I just engaged the cat dialed it down to 3 and the stove top is 500*. I let it run a little extra with the bypass open since the wood was damp(surface moisture) due to the rain we've been having. Sideways rain so my top cover didn't help the ends! :lol:
FYI, I just loaded off a decent coal bed 20 minutes ago, I just engaged the cat dialed it down to 3 and the stove top is 500*. I let it run a little extra with the bypass open since the wood was damp(surface moisture) due to the rain we've been having. Sideways rain so my top cover didn't help the ends! :lol:
FisherZip said:
I leave the door propped open a couple inches with a piece of bark to jump start the fire on reloads for a minute or so this time of year. Once it gets colder, leaving the tstat wide open is usually enough.
I assume you ran enough through it last winter to verify your tstat is working properly?
I never, ever have to leave the door open on my Princess. If my coals are hot, I often put some (very dry) splits in, shut the door, shut the cat, and walk away. It never misses a beat. If the fire has died down too far, and the stovetop temp is too low, you can't get away with this- but once you get in the groove of when to load it's easy. I use a 3 loads a day method for 24/7 burning. A full load in the morning when I leave for work at 6 am, a small load when I get home from work at 4 pm, and a medium size load before bed at 10 pm. I could get by with two a day, but I find it requires more work as I need to pack the stove pretty full to get a solid 12 hour burn that leaves me with a very hot stovetop. If I do it right, I don't need to mess with the thermostat at all. If I want some more flame, to get hot faster, I'll leave the bypass open for a few minutes.
The above is for when it's cold though. Shoulder season I'll do two medium loads a day, with the air set to about 1.5 all the time.
The above is for when it's cold though. Shoulder season I'll do two medium loads a day, with the air set to about 1.5 all the time.
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